Who Is Conning Whom?

What follows is a record of an exchange in October with David Conn of The Guardian in respect of an article written by him in August 2016 reporting the arrival of The Rangers FC in the top tier of the SPFL.

In that article David Conn suggests that there was no tax overdue in respect of “The Wee Tax Case” of 2011 because he was told by the SFA that agreement had been reached with HMRC to postpone payment until after the Takeover by Craig Whyte and on those grounds the SFA granted a licence.

For such an agreement to pass UEFA FFP rules muster it had to be in writing, signed by HMRC and dated 31st March 2011 or earlier. There were behind the scenes discussions on this point and attempts were made separately at the time to obtain such written unpublished documentation that complied with UEFA FFP regulations from Darryl Broadfoot the Head of SFA Communications, but in spite of promises it never arrived.

Not surprising as, had it existed, Celtic would certainly have been informed when they first wrote to the SFA in December 2011 – thereby rendering Resolution 12, placed at the 2013 Celtic AGM requesting UEFA to investigate the UEFA licensing process throughout 2011 as truly unnecessary.

The first e mail (edited with cosmetic changes to aid reading by  a wider audience but no change of sense) made the following points to Mr Conn on 9th Oct 2017…..


Dear Mr Conn.

On 5th August 2016 you wrote an article about the arrival of “Rangers” into the top tier of the SPFL.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/aug/05/rangers-scottish-premiership-tax-issue

(* A relevant extract from that article – in italics – can be read separately at the end of this blog)

Given that the Craig Whyte trial in July 2017, revealed discrepancies (already known to the Celtic shareholders pursuing Res12) between  what was stated at the trial and what was reported to the SFA and UEFA during 2011 in terms of the status of the wee tax case liability, then it would appear that your article:

  1. Does not fully reflect what took place, giving the impression over two paragraphs that a written agreement signed by HMRC to postpone payment had been reached between HMRC and RFC by 31st March 2011. Had this been so it would mean that there was no overdue tax  payable at 31st March 2011 as UEFA define an overdue payable to tax authorities. 
  2. However what was revealed in court in July 2017 was that RFC had accepted the liability before 31st March 2011 and so it was not “potential” with “discussions continuing with HMRC to establish a resolution to the assessments raised”,  as reported in RFC Interim accounts on 1st April 2011. It was for this reason the SFA have asked their Compliance Officer to investigate what took place and had there been a written agreement to postpone prior to 31st March 2011, there would have been no need to describe the liability to the SFA in the way that it was. 
  3. Further your article does not fully reflect the reason why “Rangers” had to wait three years before playing in European competition, which was that UEFA viewed “Rangers” as a NEW club/company. This was not mentioned although the SFA,  who advised you they held an unpublished HMRC letter also held a copy of a letter  dated 8th June 2016 from UEFA Head of Club Licensing Andrea Traverso (copy attached) to that effect.

Consequently  will you be following the SFA Compliance Officer investigation, and indeed will you be telling him the basis on which you reported the SFA’s position in your article of August 2016 without revealing sources of course?

Importantly in terms of all your other investigatory work into skulduggery, are you also aware that despite what you may have been told by the SFA, Resolution 12 was and is ultimately about making the SFA more accountable and transparent to supporters, an aim which I think you would surely support and is there any chance of you helping with that aim by considering what has caused the SFA to finally capitulate and do what Res12 asked for in 2013, albeit domestically?

A national football association using the media to try to derail a genuine investigation into their behaviour is surely of national, never mind Scottish, interest?

In some ways it matters little now if Rangers gained and retained that licence by deception as the court statement indicates, with the result the SFA Compliance Officer is conducting an investigation.

What matters more is that the SFA have used the absence of accountability to cover up their part in the licensing process, not just from March through to September 2011 but to ignore genuine enquiries from supporter/shareholders of a member club from 2014 to  July 2017. During which time their positions;

  • that the bill had not crystallised, or
  • was subject to dispute or
  • was under appeal or
  • that after 31st March, monitoring was not an SFA function, as stated by SFA CEO Stewart Regan,

were exposed (in court) as self-serving myths.

The SFA and how poorly they serve the game in Scotland because they are accountable to no one is THE story of Resolution 12 and you could help bring accountability about by reporting how you were duped by the SFA in August last year and report on what the Compliance Officer finds.

As it is your August article has undermined your reputation somewhat as someone whom I understand seeks better accountability and transparency from football authorities.

PS what Celtic shareholders lawyers reported to SFA, and when, is available if you decide to engage.

Yours etc


After a couple of reminders, one copied to The Guardian Sports Editor a reply was received dated 8th November 2017 in which Mr Conn said.


Hello 

Thank you for your emails and apologies for not having replied sooner; I have been very busy recently. I have seen that some questions have been raised about the piece I wrote in relation to this. I understand that this issue has been of great interest to people; however, I do not currently have plans to revisit it.

Thank you for your interest and apologies again for not replying sooner.

D Conn


As the SFA Head of Communications, Darryl Broadfoot, who departed from his post in January 2017, would most probably be the person to whom David Conn spoke. He is the same person who failed to clarify this article at:

https://stv.tv/sport/football/1358000-uefa-won-t-investigate-resolution-12-rangers-euro-licence-claims/

by STV reporter Grant Russell, who also recently departed from his job at STV.

The STV article omitted certain references about UEFA treating The Rangers FC/The Rangers International FC as a NEW club/company, a piece of unsolicited information  that was contained in a UEFA response to Celtic shareholders’ lawyer from Andrea Traverso, Head of UEFA Club Licensing) and which was copied to the SFA a week before STV published.

Some may also remember the strange episode where The Guardian accepted an advert from the Celtic AGM Resolution 12 requistitioners in 2016 attempting to draw the attention of Resolution 12 on a tax evasion aspect to the wider tax paying British pubic. Having accepted payment for a “Persistence Beats Res12tance” advert, The Guardian for some unexplained reason changed their mind and decided not to publish and refunded the payment.

They have been coy on answering who, what or why they changed their mind and as can be seen from the above reply from David Conn appear unwilling to pursue the UEFA 2011 Licencing issue further (at least for now). Hopefully those plans will change when the SFA investigation is complete, whatever the result.

Mr Broadfoot although no longer an SFA employee, appears to be continuing in some capacity as an SFA spokesman given his appearance on BBC Sportsound on 8th November along with Paul Goodwin of the Scottish Football Supporters Association (SFSA) to discuss the findings of an SFSA survey involving over 16,000 supporters that highly criticised the SFA for their governance of Scottish football.  The programme segment can be heard here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sQRFX2vOWUvkaeRAEEYL3vzMqdXGFE8T/view?usp=sharing

The overriding point here though is not the credibility of main stream media outlets, which is at an all-time low, but the use of those outlets by the SFA officials using the media in an attempt to produce an outcome that suits them and a single SFA member club at the expense of the value of the shares held by shareholders in another SFA member club.

Awareness of the impact on shareholder value of member clubs by SFA decisions is yet another issue that an enquiry into SFA methods/processes should address, particularly since HMRC made the SFA aware in 2009 of their concerns about Rangers use of ebts in player contracts.

Until such an investigation takes place the SFA will be viewed as no longer fit to govern Scottish football in its present form.

 

Extract from Conn Article of 5th August.

Even now, an allegation persists the SFA was deficient in allowing Rangers a licence to compete in the Champions League during that season, 2011-12. The case, based on leaked documentation from the time and pressed by a group of Celtic supporters on their club to pursue as resolution 12 of the 2013 annual general meeting, was recently argued strongly in a report by the Tax Justice Network campaign.

The argument is that in breach of Uefa rules against clubs having overdue tax payable, Rangers owed £2.8m on a discounted options scheme following a successful HMRC challenge known as the “wee tax case”.

The SFA is adamant its committee which considered the licence dealt with the issue thoroughly and received the necessary evidence the tax was not overdue according to Uefa rules. One informed source involved with the issue at the time, who did not want to speak publicly owing to continuing criminal proceedings against Whyte arising out of his tenure at Rangers, said that at the initial deadline, 31 March 2011, HMRC had agreed that the £2.8m did not need to be paid until after his May 2011 takeover.

Before subsequent 30 June and 30 September deadlines, Rangers, by then owned by Whyte, are understood to have told the SFA they were in discussions with HMRC over the money owed. Uefa rules allow tax not to be treated as “overdue” where there is a written agreement with the tax authority for payment to be extended.

The SFA, although declining to disclose details of the documentation it received, citing confidentiality with its member clubs, told the Guardian via a spokesperson: “The Scottish FA has always been clear the licensing award issued to Rangers in 2011 by the licensing committee was correct. The process is audited on an annual basis by Uefa.”

Uefa, pressed on the issue again recently, said: “The licence for the 2011-12 season was granted by the SFA and there was no reason for Uefa to doubt this decision.”

Uefa has said it has no need to investigate further if the tax was in fact overdue according to its definition, because after that season, Rangers’ fate anyway equated to a sanction for breach of the rules: they could not play in European competition for the following three years. HMRC, taking a stern view of clubs defaulting on tax, declined to approve a company voluntary arrangement with creditors and Rangers went into liquidation.

Auldheid

Auldheid

Celtic fan from Glasgow living mostly in Spain. A contributor to several websites, discussion groups and blogs, and a member of the Resolution 12 Celtic shareholders’ group.
Committed to sporting integrity, good governance, and the idea that football is interdependent. We all need each other in the game.

1,054 Comments
  1. Ernest Becker


    A PLC which has posted trading losses in every year of it’s existence and which has admitted it will be doing the same this year, and next. Which will have to have a £20m share issue just to pay off loans. Which has no proper banking facilities and no line of credit other than it’s own shareholders. In fact it seems all but one shareholder has had enough, and that one is a convicted fraudster, so hardly what one would describe as a certainty to make good on his promises.

    A business analyst in assessing the viability of RFC would chuck the first 4 years accounts in the bin,in the SPL and out the SPL are two different business models,the losses were paid for by unsecured interest free loans soon to be converted into shares.This draws a line under a commercially irrelevant model outside the top tier.
    Losses in the SPL and future losses are part of a growth strategy,investing an extra 4 million in player wages is expected to result in a higher turnover,not pie in the sky given RFC previous turnover when in the SPL and not in Europe was around 35 million.
    I cannot think of any club in Scotland that is getting new credit from banks.
    If other lenders have had enough then they would demand their loans be secured,they haven’t.

    Business is a gamble, RFC is no different but the risks are minimal.

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  2. ernie


    Haven’t commented much on the Mcinnes because it’s a bit too “my club” for me so I have to give the following disclaimers.
    Much as I like McInnes I don’t think losing him would be disastrous, it could even work out well for us especially with the comp to spend on a replacement.
    And, Milne is a decent custodian financially but I have no time at all for his backing off the 11-1 and the whole “moving on” rubbish.
    But.. a lot of us supporters appear to be buying into the “McInnes should bare all” camp whilst the fact is that rangers2 played the media and they are playing us.  It was obvious some time ago that they would take it all the way to the ridiculous headlines in the record this morning that he has been “forced” into a position where he will “have” to quit to go to ibrox.  The job is almost done.  If he quits there is not much AFC can do except go to law and I’m not sure how such a clause would stand up, I assume rangers 2 have sought opinion.  That leaves the SFA to adjudicate on a tapping up charge and I don’t expect that to pan out for us.  If you think unsettling McInnes is a media frenzy wait until that case comes up!  All of this , of course, while no-one, no-one has asked rangers2 to clarify exactly what their intentions, plans and proposals are.  McInnes, on the other hand, has to state clearly his position at every step of the way ,and remember he already has a job, so that the media can satisfy the hordes sense of entitlement.  It’s a bloody disgrace but not unexpected..

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  3. Smugas


    And whilst we’re at it.

    EB said

    they (Kingco) have everything to lose and nothing to gain by being reckless.

    Nope.  They have put up to date.  Churlish to deny that. But their ‘journey’ model doesn’t work if they’re not ‘reckless.’  They’d be more transparent than, well, than Craig Whyte was.  The difference is Craig had a consequence to the club (I’ve covered his personal situation above) of being reckless to deal with.  This is traditionally called liquidation.  But in your world that ‘risk’ has been removed.  Kingco now feel they can be reckless with impunity (granted apparently with their own money this time) which is why you consider it not being reckless.  There’s a difference but it only comes about if someone stops being reckless, or someone acts to stop them AND someone asks either for a return or, worst case scenario, their money back. 

    Just time to edit hopefully as saw your latest post. “SPL Losses and future losses are part of a future growth plan” Really?

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  4. Ernest Becker


    Craig Whyte had nothing to lose?  You mean apart from the personal guarantee he issued to Ticketus that was subsequently used to bankrupt him personally including losing him his house (castle).  You mean apart from that he had nothing to lose.

    I am now finding it impossible to follow your train of thought,is this connected to your previous question or is it a new topic?

    As a matter of interest i think he lost his castle for not paying a mortgage for 2 years,he was a lad.in effect CW had no assets or funds to back up his personal guarantee,so he lost nothing as i have stated.

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  5. Smugas


    So apparently King has “everything to lose” which is wrong and “nothing to gain” which is also wrong but apart from that you’re right.

    OK.  Good job he’s not involved with the Club then.  Just the company that owns the company that owns the Club.  This factual reality of yours is really quite magical isn’t it?

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  6. Ernest Becker


    Just time to edit hopefully as saw your latest post. “SPL Losses and future losses are part of a future growth plan” Really?

    Borrowing for growth is hardly reckless if the borrowing is affordable and the growth target is realistic.
    A business analyst would look at the domestic turnover prior to liquidation for proof it was realistic,break even on a 10 million player budget is realistic.

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  7. Ernest Becker


    So apparently King has “everything to lose” which is wrong and “nothing to gain” which is also wrong but apart from that you’re right.

    Unsecured lenders have everything to lose and nothing to gain by being reckless,this fact does not alter regardless who the lender is,i am sure in reality DK treats his family’s trust as if it was his own money,would be churlish to pretend otherwise.
    Seems i am still right.

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  8. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    Ernest BeckerDecember 6, 2017 at 13:44 
    A PLC which has posted trading losses in every year of it’s existence and which has admitted it will be doing the same this year, and next. Which will have to have a £20m share issue just to pay off loans. Which has no proper banking facilities and no line of credit other than it’s own shareholders. In fact it seems all but one shareholder has had enough, and that one is a convicted fraudster, so hardly what one would describe as a certainty to make good on his promises.
    A business analyst in assessing the viability of RFC would chuck the first 4 years accounts in the bin,in the SPL and out the SPL are two different business models,the losses were paid for by unsecured interest free loans soon to be converted into shares.This draws a line under a commercially irrelevant model outside the top tier.Losses in the SPL and future losses are part of a growth strategy,investing an extra 4 million in player wages is expected to result in a higher turnover,not pie in the sky given RFC previous turnover when in the SPL and not in Europe was around 35 million.I cannot think of any club in Scotland that is getting new credit from banks.If other lenders have had enough then they would demand their loans be secured,they haven’t.Business is a gamble, RFC is no different but the risks are minimal.
    ________________________

    Are you a business analyst, or someone who has experienced the work of a business analyst? Or is it just two words you know how to spell? What on earth makes you think that any business analyst would see the ‘RIFC model’ as anything other than farcical? What makes you think losses can possibly be a part of a growth strategy?

    Profits = growth, losses = decline.

    Borrowing for capital outlay can be seen as a growth strategy, ie Hearts new stand, borrowing to meet working capital is not only not a growth strategy, it is a route to insolvency.

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  9. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    IMO, McInnes is being poorly advised.

    You would think it is ‘reasonable’ to assume that McInnes has not signed anything so far with TRFC, for obvious reasons. 

    Mibbees just a verbal assurance about his package and budget [if any] for new players.

    The fact that TRFC is quite happy to try and screw over the Dons very publicly – by unsettling their manager, and then presumably [?] to offer a poor offer to meet his termination terms… 

    …then why would TRFC not screw over McInnes as well ?

    IF he arrives at Ibrox he could be presented with a much lower package to sign…so what does he do?
    Sign the contract of course – and feel stupid.

    Whatever happens: nobody is coming out of this debacle with any dignity.

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  10. ernie


    Valid point Steviebc, you have to wonder who is actually advising him?  Could it be that he has to look under the bonnet to achieve close out whether he goes or not? Looking in at how he has dealt with the business of football at Pittodrie I find it hard to believe that he can engage at all with the spivs at ibrox.  Still, disastrous career moves are not unusual in football although usually the risk taker can count on a mega pay off when it all goes pear shaped c.f. multiple scots to the championship in England.  
    As for “Whatever happens: nobody is coming out of this debacle with any dignity.”  Maybye not but I do hope that AFC go about recruiting a replacement in a reasonable manner and that he will at least be able to hold his head up. You have to hand it to the spivs at ibrox;  they are indiscriminate in whom they shaft.

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  11. Finloch


    Whoever advised Stewart Milne to refuse Derek McInnes the opportunity to speak to the Ibrox club made a fundamental error.
    (If indeed anyone did – he may well be his own counsellor like other self made men) 

    I think he would have been better telling his manager, the Ibrox club and the media that when the compensation money was in an escrow account with strict criteria that he would allow his contracted manager to listen to what they have to say.

    At the same time he should have been brutally honest behind the scenes with Derek about the current Ibrox financial model and trading status.

    The outcome of now of his effectively telling someone close to him that he does not trust them sufficiently to listen to the Rangers offer is that it has become a certainty that Derek and his team will decide to move on.

    The uncertainty is how far south they will choose to go.

    Derek’s stock is high.
    He has made mistakes in the past and no doubt is wiser for them.
    Other offers (richer offers) will come.
    He might well bide his time until a less poisonous option turns up.

    Either way Milne will find this particular decision was the wrong one and some of us on this blog remember he has a track record of calling it wrong.

    Aberdeen fans deserve better.

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  12. tayred

    tayred


    Finloch, who is to say that Milne hasn’t told TRFC and McInnes exactly that – Once the money is available away you go and talk.
    Seems to me that all that AFC can be held as being guilty of at the minute is not seeking the SMSM to do their dirty work for them, not spouting off through broadcasters and journalists and unbelievably behaving in something approaching a professional way. Something TRFC couldn’t even begin to imagine doing.
    AFC supporters are most certainly being treated with contempt by the SMSM and by TRFC, and in all probability by McInnes but Milne…. in this case I think its too early to say. That said… it wouldn’t surprise me!
    I have my problems with Milne, but in this case I think he can’t win regardless of how it ends. I only hope come the end of it all he will pay more attention to feelings of the AFC supporters than those of TRFC and their compliant media. 

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  13. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    I think at this moment in time, Stewart Milne, and Aberdeen, have not done anything that could be construde as undignified over the McInnes affair, and the only thing that might change that is if they allow TRFC to walk all over them and get what they want without him exposing them for what they are. He must explain everything that has happened to the Aberdeen supporters, who, after all, are the people who have provided the money to pay the salary of McInnes, a salary that most could only dream of recieving.

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  14. ernie


    Tayred/Finloch.  My reading of it is that Milne has indeed told TRFC exactly that, show us the money and you can talk.  Refunded if it falls through.  That’s translates into “Milne forces McInnes to have to quit” headlines from the weegia.  The key point here is that TRFC can’t afford/don’t want to afford the compensation to go through with this in the formal manner laid out in DM’s contract for this express purpose. That’s why it’s panning out like this.  Disgraceful piece of work by the SMSM.

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  15. Smugas


    The difficulty Milne has is if this is how future player/manager dealings are to be carried out – essentially a 6 week media derived unsettling period followed by swift one way negotiation – then a competent businessman would spend that 6 weeks trying to do to others (to get a replacement) wot others are doing to him (to pinch his present manager).  OK, he does it without the media’s assistance in a wholly more dignified manner.  But he still has to do it.

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  16. Smugas


    Ernie, 

    The problem is one of portrayal.  It has been and no doubt will be tomorrow portrayed as Fourth Place AFC release the next Sir Alex Ferguson per his wishes to a well funded club with ambition.

    The reality is the six week period of uncertainty has had a lot to with AFC being 4th but that has gone virtually unreported.  Acceptable Collateral damage if you will.

    The next Sir Alex Ferguson is nothing of the sort as I tried to point out to EB earlier.  His big game record under pressure is shocking.  Consistency and team bonding – yes, in buckets.  Long term strategy and media skills – near perfection.  Results when it really matters?  That’s where the press have really let themselves down.

    I assume you don’t need me to go in-depth about the well funded purchasers.  See EB’s MBA thesis on Strategic Losses for Growth for details if not.  

    That the problem has been media driven is without doubt.  ‘Rangers’ to a large extent have been blameless in so far as they haven’t said anything publicly save for a snidey wee remark at the AGM about contracted parties.  But the issue has been driven by a media hell bent on raising it but then refusing to discuss it fully, concentrating instead on just the bits they like, over and over again.  I do hope their gracious coverage continues in similarly selective vein.

    And finally no I’m not naïve enough to think ‘rangers’ didn’t have a hand in it, but doubtful if you can prove it so not worth getting hung up about.

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  17. tony

    tony


    FINLOCH
    At the same time he should have been brutally honest behind the scenes with Derek about the current Ibrox financial model and trading status

    surely mcinnes knows exactly what he is walking into,if not,he deserves his summer resignation

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  18. Finloch


    I think there is still a widespread belief throughout football that Rangers survived liquidation once and could/can do it again if needs be.
    Maybe the next time will be a pre-pack.
    People like Milne and the rest of the inner cabal on the SPL (SPFL) and the SFA helped them last time and would/will do it again at the drop of a hat.
    Its business.
    All Stewart had to do yesterday was add a few words to the 27 in his press release which some MSM printed verbatim.

    “Aberdeen Football Club has announced this evening that Rangers have contacted the club asking for permission to speak to Derek McInnes and that permission has been refused.”

    He chose not to for reasons unknown to us.

    All Derek had to do last week and again yesterday or even today was politely and publicly say he was flattered but not for moving to Glasgow.
    He also chose not to.

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  19. ernie


    Smugas, I fully concur that Milne should, and probably has, have been working behind the scenes to replace McInnes should he leave and I’m well aware that is how it goes. However, my anger is directed at the SMSM who have been a disgrace: it’s not a novel situation, one only has to look back to Alan and TRFC a year or two ago and multiple managerial appointments in the history of the game (Burns e,g.). It just hasn’t happened to has for a while because we haven’t had the talent to poach (note poach as opposed to pay for which is business).  The core issue for me is that McInnes negotiated a lucrative extension to his contract, including a major salary increase, which includes a compensation deal expressly to deal with the situation of a “big” club coming in for him.  If it was Wolves, Blackburn and the like the comp would not be an issue.  It’s TRFC, they’re skint and they’re spivs, so roll up tame media: Mcinnes “has” to quit.  I won’t spend any time getting hung up about the fact that TRFC are in it up to their bollox, but neither should we give the cheating b*stards a free ride.  AS for McInnes, if he goes he’s a mug and that surprises me.

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  20. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    ERNIEDECEMBER 6, 2017 at 17:54
    AS for McInnes, if he goes he’s a mug and that surprises me.
    ——————
    A real mug would buy out his own contract then expect a warchest for transfers10

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  21. easyJambo


    I think Michael Stewart has called it correctly in this tweet.

    Michael Stewart‏ @mstewart_23
    Correct me if I’m wrong but if a club meet a compensation figure then surely they can talk to their target…..
    So events would suggest Rangers HAVEN’T met that figure. This whole episode has been so poorly handled

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  22. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    Why can’t Mr king not just (pick up the phone,get a loan, he has before) for something that needed urgent payment. Meet a compensation figure that is required urgently,then just add it to the list of loans that need to be paid back through a share issue.
    Or would that be to much of an eye opener for the ibrox fans that the new guy will not have a warchest
    Edit.. but who needs a warchest when (put in many SMSM bestest manager in britain headlines,all about youth…all about bringing the best out of) you get the drift.
    edit… until it all falls apart and the fans demand warchests be spent.

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  23. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    On the difference between being able to make the share offer he has been ordered to, and lending money to a loss making business, which is to be converted to shares.

    I’ve worked it out.

    Dave King has gone to the people who operate New Oasis Asset Ltd and asked a few questions. Bearing in mind that Dave King does not have total control over the money, I believe it’s a trust fund.

    DK – “Can I borrow about £11m”
    NOAL – “What for”
    DK – “I was part of a concert party which bought shares in a PLC. I have now been ordered to make an offer for the shares and my appeal failed. I need to make the offer but no-one will buy anyway so I just need the money for a few weeks. It’s a cosmetic exercise actually, a loan I will pay you back quickly”
    NOAL – “No, sorry but you are not having money for that”

    DK – “Ok can I borow about £9m”
    NOAL – “What for”
    DK – “This PLC I told you about, it loses money every year. It’s lost about £35m so far and is likely to lose at least another £7m or so. It’s going to have lost over £40m in the not too distant future. We have been covering those losses with loans and a share issue”
    NOAL – “What do you need the £9m for”
    DK – “Well I’ve said I would pay the £7m it needs to keep afloat, and I’ve also said I would put in another few quid for players”
    NOAL – “And will this money be coming back to us, will this loan be getting repaid”
    DK – “See there’s the thing, I’m going to get it back as shares in the PLC losing all the money so no. It’s not really a loan I want, more of a gift really. If anything it will commit me to putting even more money in.”
    NOAL – “That all seems fine, do you want cash or should we move it through HK”

    ============================================

    Just as an aside. I suspect a Business Analyst would look at the first 4 years and say “Why in the name of feck would you have been spending so much more money than you were earning. Are you all mentalists, do none of you actually understand how a business works. If you spend so much more than you are earning your business dies. It’s not complicated.”

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  24. jimbo

    jimbo


    Homunculus, I liked the style of your Q & A between DK & NOAL.

    Just a quick question,  who are NOAL?  Which people are involved?

    Thanks.

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  25. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    From the PLC audited accounts. 

    New Oasis Asset Limited is a company in which the Group Chairman, Mr D King and his immediate family are interested. 

    However from previous accounts

    New Oasis Asset Limited is a company controlled by the Group Chairman, Mr D King.

    A bit of a difference is it not.

    One wonders why he is trying to change the perception of his relationship with NOAL.

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  26. Smugas


    Just in case you missed it Auldheid.  Kenny Macintyre on Sportsound just now (defending the media’s role in the McInnes saga),

    ”when a journalist uncovers some facts they report them.  That’s how it works.”

    Thought it would be a good opener for when you do tiffin with Tom.  They really are beyond contempt.

    View Comment
  27. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    SMUGAS
    DECEMBER 6, 2017 at 20:29
    Just in case you missed it Auldheid.  Kenny Macintyre on Sportsound just now (defending the media’s role in the McInnes saga),
    ”when a journalist uncovers some facts they report them.  That’s how it works.”
    =============================

    If only there were some journalists involved this story would have been reported in the MSM over the last several years. 

    View Comment
  28. John Clark


    HomunculusDecember 6, 2017 at 19:41
    ‘..One wonders why he is trying to change the perception of his relationship with NOAL.’
    _____________
    I gather that (in the USA and almost for a certainty in places like the British Virgin Islands) the ‘settlor’ of a ‘revocable living Trust’ can be the sole Trustee of the assets in the Trust ,and retains full control.

    If that is indeed the case, then one wonders whether King might have had a ‘revocable NOAL Family Trust’ over which he had control, and has smartly changed it into an ‘irrevocable trust’,over which he would have no legal control (just moral control over ,say, the wife if she was the Trustee) so that he could ‘honestly’ tell the Court that he was ‘penniless’.

    One then wonders whether the Court would insist on seeing the date of  such  change, to check whether it was before or after the Takeover Appeal Board’s decision, and after the decision by the Panel Executive to  ask the Court to make an order to procure compliance.

    If the change was made after the TAB ruling, would the Court be thinking in terms of ‘wilful deprivation of capital’?

    View Comment
  29. John Clark


    SMUGASDecember 6, 2017 at 20:29
    ‘…. Kenny Macintyre on Sportsound just now (defending the media’s role in the McInnes saga),”when a journalist uncovers some facts they report them. ‘
    __________I startled Mrs C with the loud guffaw I let out when I heard that! Absolutely priceless bullsh.t19

    View Comment
  30. Ernest Becker


     What makes you think losses can possibly be a part of a growth strategy?

    £5.24m was invested in strengthening the first teamsquad,….As a result of the above, the Group achieved a retained LOSS for the year to 30 June 2012 of £7.37m whichcompares with the previous year’s profit of £0.10m.Further information is contained within the FinancialDirector’s Review.
    Although, on its face, the financial outcome for the yearended 30 June 2012 appears disappointing, this was theresult of a DELIBERATE policy of retaining key players inorder to achieve significant strategic objectives that, iffulfilled, would have a substantial beneficial impact laterin the year. The success gained on the pitch in meetingthose objectives now provides us with greater flexibilitythan would otherwise have been the case.
    http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downloads/Annual%20Report%202012.pdf

    View Comment
  31. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    ERNEST BECKERDECEMBER 6, 2017 at 23:39
     What makes you think losses can possibly be a part of a growth strategy?
    £5.24m was invested in strengthening the first teamsquad,….As a result of the above, the Group achieved a retainedloss for the year to 30 June 2012 of £7.37m whichcompares with the previous year’s profit of £0.10m.Further information is contained within the FinancialDirector’s Review.Although, on its face, the financial outcome for the yearended 30 June 2012 appears disappointing, this was theresult of a deliberate policy of retaining key players inorder to achieve significant strategic objectives that, iffulfilled, would have a substantial beneficial impact laterin the year. The success gained on the pitch in meetingthose objectives now provides us with greater flexibilitythan would otherwise have been the case.http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downloads/Annual%20Report%202012.pdf
    _______

    You see, there is a strategy, and it paid off, because Celtic were under control, and knew they had the quality of players to not only be successful, but to sell if needs be. TRFC, on the other hand, don’t have a squad with a cumulative sale value to cover the past years losses let alone the cumulative year on year losses, and they are certainly not of a quality to be successful.

    King has admitted that they are relying on future European income to cover the current and future losses. That is not a strategy, of any description, it is, at best, flying by the seat of their pants.

    I think it might indicate madness to compare a well run business like Celtic with that of a football club that has made no trading profit in it’s history.

    One thing’s for sure, if King has any sort of a strategy, it’s an exit strategy for himself.

    View Comment
  32. Ex Ludo

    Ex Ludo


    I note Ernest is still about the place and clutching at more and more straws. I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that TRFC might actually be a loss making business with no credit facilities from any bank.

    View Comment
  33. Auldheid


    The business model of TRFC reminds me of the movie Von Ryans Express.

    The train carrying escaping POWS grinds to a halt when some of the rails just ahead have been twisted by a bomb blast.

    The clever solution is to lift the rails BEHIND the train and replace the twisted ones in front  with the rails from behind in order to cross the gap and journey on. A neat trick.

    The TRFC model differs because the rails behind the rain have been warped by the journey and only the rails ahead are useable.

    So the TRFC Express crawls along sending the occupant ahead of the track to fetch the rails about half a season’ length ahead in order to fix the gap just ahead caused by the first time this particular solution was tried.

    You can see where this model train is going – nowhere fast, but it will chunter along hoping to find spare rails along the way in UEFA sidings, fuelled by “soft” loans that rivals have no access to. As long as the gap in front does not get too big to bridge, it should work like a model train set going around in circles.
    At least it is no longer the tax payer who is fuelling the engine.

    View Comment
  34. LUGOSI

    LUGOSI


    Trisidium advised that if Spoutpish continued trolling past the Champions League group stages the Ethereal Bonkers OCNC Thread would probably be resurrected.
    Since that deadline one whole day has passed.
    In that one day I’ve had to scroll past ten, yes, ten (10), posts by the world’s worst hundercover agent as well as scrolling past any posts which engaged with his drivel.
    The staunch, dignified, respectful, traditional practice of The Spouting Of The Pish continues without fear, favour or brain cell. I think that satisfies the “if” condition in Trisidium’s advice.
    I believe the appropriate procedure can be found in Superman II. Spoutpish is entrapped in gyrating circles before being encased in a spinning rectangular glass and then banished to The Phantom Zone of an OCNC thread all the while shrieking “Niall Before Zod”.
    Mark Twain was not a fan of Jane Austen. It was his view that any library is a good library that does not contain Jane Austen. Even if it contains no other book.
    Much the same could be said of Spoutpish. If Spoutpish is absent from a site that one omission alone would make a fairly good site out of a site even if it didn’t have a blog, post, comment or anything else in it.
    How many times do we have to flush to make this go away?

    View Comment
  35. upthehoops


    Is Scotland the only country in the civilised world where a major football ‘club’ could sting the public purse for tens of millions yet still receive undying protection from the media? People associated with this ‘club’ are seemingly free to say, or do anything they want, and the media will still find a reason to say it’s okay. Their abominable behaviour towards Aberdeen, and the media defence of it, is yet another case in point.  I see one of the more ‘decent’ journalists, Graham Spiers pouring scorn on those who criticise the media behaviour over McInnes. Nice guy or not, Spiers is as much a part of the problem as the rest.

    On the plus side it just shows you how much the state Rangers are in is hurting.  For the rest of us it shows that our clubs being run honestly within their means is a worthy attribute, even if the media can’t bring themselves to acknowledge that. 

    View Comment
  36. fan of football


    Looking at the BDO report     page 7 
    it seems to be showing 
    state of affairs affairs …(3,344,432.94) football creditors  receipts ……….nil
    payments …….nil
    Does this mean that the football debts have not been paid ,or was it CG and the new clubs accounts that would show the settling of the dead clubs football debts .
    I would be surprised if the BIG handed Yorkshireman would have forked out £3.3m without telling everyone and their granny about doing so 
    anyone with a better knowledge of these things than me about these things any idea  

    View Comment
  37. John Clark


    AuldheidDecember 7, 2017 at 03:09
    ‘…The business model of TRFC reminds me of the movie Von Ryans Express.’
    _________
    In terms of film analogies, I think of the original “The Italian Job”, and  can see TRFC Ltd more like the bus full of cheats with stolen property teetering on the edge of a precipice,going nowhere fast, with their leader in the best position to save himself at everyone else’s expense, when it inevitably plunges over to its doom!19

    View Comment
  38. easyJambo


    fan of football December 7, 2017 at 07:21
    Looking at the BDO report     page 7 
    it seems to be showing 
    state of affairs affairs …(3,344,432.94) football creditors  receipts ……….nil
    payments …….nil
    Does this mean that the football debts have not been paid ,or was it CG and the new clubs accounts that would show the settling of the dead clubs football debts .
    I would be surprised if the BIG handed Yorkshireman would have forked out £3.3m without telling everyone and their granny about doing so  anyone with a better knowledge of these things than me about these things any idea  
    ========================
    The BDO report shows nothing paid to football creditors because, as you suggested, they were settled by the Newco.

    There are a few references to payment of those debts by RIFC in their 2013 accounts.
    *   There were also substantial payments of £2.4m made to clear football debts to other Clubs incurred pre-administration which the management of the Club was committed to addressing.
    *   Non-recurring expenditure includes £2.7 m of repayments in respect of football creditors taken on from RFC 2012 plc, which RIFC were committed to paying.
    *   Repayment of RFC 2012 plc football debt ……  £’000s   ………..    2,721
    *   The undertaking of RFC 2012 plc football debts relates to football club creditors of RFC 2012 plc that have been taken on by the Group.
    *   Football club creditors of RFC 2012 plc taken on by the Group of £251,000 are included within other creditors.

    My reading of the above was that the Newco committed to paying £2.721m to Oldco’s football creditors, of which £251k was outstanding at the financial year end.  I know that they also negotiated a reduction of £100k for early repayment of the outstanding transfer installment to Hearts for Lee Wallace, basically because Hearts was desperate for cash at that time.  

    View Comment
  39. Highlander

    Highlander


    I don’t know what Kris Boyd drinks, but I wouldn’t mind a pint of whatever mind-bending substance it is.

    In today’s press he assures us that Derek McInnes definitely will become Rangers* manager.

    “When Derek McInnes becomes Rangers manager — and that will now happen — there’s no point in Stewart Milne or anyone else at Pittodrie moaning about it.

    “He’s on the verge of leaving Aberdeen for Rangers because it’s a bigger and better club. That’s just a fact.”

    There are two things I’d like to point out to Mr Boyd.

    Firstly, Derek McInnes has previously shown himself to be an astute judge when considering offers from clubs which are severely financially challenged and whose board and fans are likely to have unrealistic and indeed unattainable aims.

    McInnes may well have sought permission from his chairman to speak to Rangers*, but that does not automatically guarantee that he will end up at Ibrox once he’s had a chance to ‘look under the bonnet’. He also spoke to Sunderland, another financial basket-case, before wisely deciding against touching the job with a barge-pole.

    Kris Boyd’s attitude epitomises the sheer arrogance displayed by all and sundry connected to the current Ibrox club regarding its standing, and the expectation that everyone would naturally want to go there regardless of circumstances. Now it may well happen that McInnes will indeed end up at Ibrox, but I can’t be the only one who really, really hopes he turns them down.

    The second point I would pick up Kris Boyd on concerns his further arrogant statement that it is a fact that Rangers is a bigger and better club than Aberdeen! Well, I suppose that depends on what criteria you use to determine ‘bigger’ and ‘better’.

    Rangers* certainly have bigger attendance figures than Aberdeen, but they also had much, much, much bigger debts before they self-destructed and died the death of liquidation in 2012. That is just a fact.

    Before that, they had much, much, much bigger sectarian and bigotry problems than Aberdeen, or any other club for that matter. That is just a fact.

    Aberdeen has 114 years of unbroken history, including two European trophies, which is much, much, much better than the current club playing out of Ibrox has achieved in its entire five years of existence. That is just a fact.

    So Kris, in what way bigger and better?

    View Comment
  40. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    Shirley, TRFC should now be telling McInnes / Milne: 

    “We feel that McInnes has shown poor judgement in the proposed deal to take him to Ibrox.  So we don’t him now: you can keep him!”

    Then TRFC would also have completed a remarkable, ‘FU’ to all concerned!

    – Milne left with an unsettled club.
    – SMSM left looking even more stoopid than usual.
    – Bears left wandering around Govan in a confused state.
    – The SFA left unaffected – playing dominoes in the Hampden bunker.
    – …and the previously ‘highly rated’ McInnes left dangling in the wind.

    Mibbees the TRFC MO is to cause disruption wherever possible in Scottish football…just because ?  09

    View Comment
  41. jimbo

    jimbo


    I’ll be glad to see this managerial saga coming to a conclusion today.  It seems to have dragged on forever.  Every time a manager’s job comes up for grabs in Glasgow it is a circus.  I remember when Ronnie Deila left it seemed to take ages, all the names, all the speculation and yet Celtic won the league on 8 May , BR appointed on 20 May!  Twelve days!  I was surprised to read that earlier.

    This time round it’s been something else.  I don’t recall there being an out and out favourite for Celtic at the time, more about bookies odds on a daily basis.  The media didn’t have a clue.  Not this time.  By and large it has been DM all the way.  Now that could be because it pointed towards a Scottish based manager and the clamour for a ‘Rangers’ man.  It kind of narrowed things down tbf.

    We shall soon know one way or another.  I have no strong opinion either way.  Just trying to understand the media’s take on this.  Do they honestly believe he can take the Ibrox team to the top?  He will have a few hurdles.

    View Comment
  42. wottpi


    Immediate apologies for the whataboutery but some may have seen the story re Police Scotland making comment with regard to stadium safety at Tynecastle.

    This from the force who appeared not to be prepared for a highly probably pitch invasion in the event of Hibs winning the Scottish Cup.

    The same force who allow certain fans to spew their bigoted bile week in week out.

    The same force (along with the SMSM) who fail to have followed up much publicized concerns over stadium safety at a certain location south of the Clyde.

    Apparently they are more concerned about a Football Manager getting sent to the stand and the lack of water in the bogs.

    I’m all for getting these minor issues sorted out but Lord help us if this is what passes as major news worthy of reporting when so much else is going on in Scottish Football. 11

    View Comment
  43. sannoffymesssoitizz

    sannoffymesssoitizz


    Highlander  December 7, 2017 at 12:24

    I don’t know what Kris Boyd drinks, but I wouldn’t mind a pint of whatever mind-bending substance it is.
    ————————————–
    Kris Boyd probably “know’s” because the registered agent(s?) acting for either/or both, McInnes and Neo-Ragers has briefed all of the EBT Loyal, SMSM sports writers and pundits with this information.

    View Comment
  44. jimbo

    jimbo


    Reports coming in that DM is to stay as Aberdeen Manager.

    Talks broke down.

    View Comment
  45. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    Does anyone think that TRFC are trying to convince some people that they have loadsamoney?

    Giving the impression they can afford McInnes (they might get him, but that doesn’t mean they can afford him), who will require a healthy budget, and now this, plans to create a new youth training facility at what used to be called Murray Park.

    All this on the back of pretty disastrous Accounts that showed they have no money, and had no mention (that I saw mention of anyway) of this proposed capital outlay! Had nobody thought about it before they had the accounts printed? Did they tell the auditors they had this in the pipeline?

    https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/rangers-given-green-light-to-build-new-youth-training-complex-1-4633468

    View Comment
  46. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    imboDecember 7, 2017 at 17:44 
    Reports coming in that DM is to stay as Aberdeen Manager.
    __________________

    Seems to be being reported as a bad news item, surely the Scottish Media should be delighted for Aberdeen? No?

    View Comment
  47. naegreetin


    Re : McInnes

    Well,well,well – a sensible decision on his part I think – wonder what affected his decision – had a look “under the bonnet” & didn’t like the look of it or the Govan tribal stirrings re Docherty – as Phil would say “developing story” – makes the Level5 media campaign look pretty silly .

    View Comment
  48. jimbo

    jimbo


    Ally, don’t think it works that way!

    Oh well, Radio should be fun tonight.

    View Comment
  49. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    HIGHLANDERDECEMBER 7, 2017 at 12:24 42 0 Rate This
    I don’t know what Kris Boyd drinks, but I wouldn’t mind a pint of whatever mind-bending substance it is.
    In today’s press he assures us that Derek McInnes definitely will become Rangers* manager.
    “When Derek McInnes becomes Rangers manager —and that will now happen — there’s no point in Stewart Milne or anyone else at Pittodrie moaning about it.
    “He’s on the verge of leaving Aberdeen for Rangers because it’s a bigger and better club. That’s just a fact.”There are two things I’d like to point out to Mr Boyd.
    Firstly, Derek McInnes has previously shown himself to be an astute judge when considering offers from clubs which are severely financially challenged and whose board and fans are likely to have unrealistic and indeed unattainable aims.
    McInnes may well have sought permission from his chairman to speak to Rangers*, but that does not automatically guarantee that he will end up at Ibrox once he’s had a chance to ‘look under the bonnet’. He also spoke to Sunderland, another financial basket-case, before wisely deciding against touching the job with a barge-pole.
    Kris Boyd’s attitude epitomises the sheer arrogance displayed by all and sundry connected to the current Ibrox club regarding its standing, and the expectation that everyone would naturally want to go there regardless of circumstances. Now it may well happen that McInnes will indeed end up at Ibrox, but I can’t be the only one who really, really hopes he turns them down.
    The second point I would pick up Kris Boyd on concerns his further arrogant statement that it is a fact that Rangers is a bigger and better club than Aberdeen! Well, I suppose that depends on what criteria you use to determine ‘bigger’ and ‘better’.
    Rangers* certainly have bigger attendance figures than Aberdeen, but they also had much, much, much bigger debts before they self-destructed and died the death of liquidation in 2012. That is just a fact.
    Before that, they had much, much, much bigger sectarian and bigotry problems than Aberdeen, or any other club for that matter. That is just a fact.
    Aberdeen has 114 years of unbroken history, including two European trophies, which is much, much, much better than the current club playing out of Ibrox has achieved in its entire five years of existence. That is just a fact.
    So Kris, in what way bigger and better?
    ———–
    That kris Boyd what’s he like21

    View Comment
  50. jimbo

    jimbo


    Would like to hear Derek McInnes’s side of the story but I expect he will respect the confidentiality of the talks and only come out with some bland reasons.

    I can only think it would have centred around the remuneration package, the transfer & wage budget aligned to the KPIs.  The expectations of the fans are enormous and are probably impossible to achieve within the budget available.

    Pressure. Pressure. Pressure.

    DM is probably in a better place for the time being. (Will need to regain trust though).

    View Comment
  51. causaludendi


    Jimbo, I believe the only ‘talks’ McInnes held were with his chairman, Stewart Milne, and his family. Permission was never granted for the ibrox club to speak to him.

    View Comment
  52. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    Attachment

    Don’t get too excited, Derek McInnes is apparently going to Rangers, it was announced today on the highest authority.

    View Comment
  53. bfbpuzzled


    Might I ask if Ernest Becker and Kris Boyd have both been seen in the same room at any time?

    If not, perhaps a mystery has been solved

    Kris Boyd is the man who opined before the second Aberdeen TRFC game that TRFC were a club on the up – the previous results being loss, loss, win…
    As to his completely unjustified assertion on bigger and better, in my teaching days that would have led to a mark of 0 from me, after what might be described as an exclamatory rant.

    View Comment
  54. fan of football


    EASYJAMBODECEMBER 7, 2017 at 12:04
    Thanks EJ for the info .
    I seem to recall some talk of the SFA /SPL taking  2nd place monies due to the old club as part of the infamous 5 way agreement to go towards paying off football debts (of course the ragers fans accused them of stealing the money)
    In your opinion would this be possible or would those monies have to be passed over to BDO 

    View Comment
  55. easyJambo


    From twitter

    I can categorically deny Rangers were ever interested in Aberdeen manager Derek McInnes. Neither did we speak to him, pester him or use the media to convince him to come. We’ve never even met the man before. So we huvnae.

    View Comment
  56. wottpi


    The usual suspects on Sportsound all just saying they were reporting on what the story was.
    Well the story has changed now. Will they now investigate and report exactly why T’Rangers didn’t get their man?
    Will they now have a good look under the Ibrox bonnet in the same way McInnes most likely has, come to the same conclusion and finally do some honest reporting ?

    View Comment
  57. Den


    Well McInnes has made the sane decision.
    We await Ibrox Plan B. Which will be to approach McInnes again before Plan C. Appoint Murty to end of season.
    The media coverage has been disgraceful and has undoubtedly impacted aberdeen Football Club. Any other team being party to this would have the book thrown at them. 

    View Comment
  58. easyJambo


    fan of football December 7, 2017 at 19:20
    In your opinion would this be possible or would those monies have to be passed over to BDO
    =============================
    I’ve seen no evidence of the prize money that was withheld by the SPL having gone to the Oldco.

    View Comment
  59. jimbo

    jimbo


    I would imagine that even if there were no direct talks between DM & Ibrox 3rd party intermediaries would be in dialogue (Agents?).  That was the thoughts of the panel on R Clyde tonight,  ‘you know how it works in the background’. From ex players.

    View Comment
  60. causaludendi


    FOF, I was of the understanding that the monies due from the SPL, as was, were distributed amongst the remaining 11 clubs for the simple reason that the club originally due the money no longer existed. I may have conflated several threads of the tapestry in coming to this belief so if anyone else can confirm…

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  61. Jingso.Jimsie

    Jingso.Jimsie


    Frankly, if you believe that Kris Boyd has ever submitted anything in writing to a newspaper (apart from his bank account no. & sort code), then I have a Brazilian centre-back to sell you!

    I expect the SMSM spin will be to denigrate McInnes’ decision, citing numerous ‘sources’ that it was a done-deal & he’s reneged on some kind of ‘gentleman’s agreement’ to join TRFC.

    It looks like management by committee for TRFC (DoF, Murty, a senior player or two & a PR pro) until they sort this out…

    …or perhaps a former manager is already en-route!  

    View Comment
  62. naegreetin


    Re: Managerial Appointments @ the Rangers FC

    I would expect Robertson’s position to be under review after 3 farces in the space of a year more or less .

    View Comment
  63. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    I’m absolutely sure that TRFC had the £1M cheque ready – signed and everything – and just about to hand it over to Milne…

    when the experienced Murray detected that McInnes just didn’t pass the infamous Ibrox “sniff test”!

    That’s the only valid reason I can think why talks stopped before they began.
    09

    Riddies all round for the Blue Room diddies.

    View Comment
  64. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    So just to confirm where we are.

    Caxinha left.

    Rangers accepted applications and CVs with a view to interviewing the best candidates. As they didn’t appoint anyone it is reasonable to infer that no-one was good enough.

    They then approached Derek McInnes and asked him to do it. He said no.

    So now we are at the next phase, what is that going to be. I’m guessing a lottery amongst the season ticket holders. Manager of the Month.

    Only in this one you actually get to be the manager for a month. 

    View Comment
  65. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    Could TRFC just sell the manager’s position to the highest bidder?

    Would make a great stocking filler for a bear this Christmas?

    View Comment
  66. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    STEVIEBC
    DECEMBER 7, 2017 at 19:40
    ======================

    More likely to be his assistant Tony Docherty I would have thought Stevie.

    View Comment
  67. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    ALLYJAMBODECEMBER 7, 2017 at 17:45
    https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/rangers-given-green-light-to-build-new-youth-training-complex-1-4633468
    —————
    February 2016, the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund revealed plans to provide £450,000 to build a 264-seater stand at Murray Park.
    ——–
    Also wonder if THE Scottish Football Partnership’s will be helping out again?

    View Comment
  68. fan of football


    EJ/CAUSALUDENDI

    From CG on the offical  site 2012

    CHARLES GREEN has expressed his anger and dismay at the timing of the verdict of the First Tier Tax Tribunal as it has massively affected the current status of Rangers.
    It was finally revealed last week that Rangers had won the tax case brought by HMRC in relation to Employee Benefit Trusts used during the reign of Sir David Murray for a number of players and some staff.
    Despite a concerted campaign from certain quarters, which was often hateful, that decided that Rangers were guilty of “cheating” it has been proved that is not the case.
    The most important aspect of it all, however, is that had this verdict been delivered in May or June then Rangers would:
    Still be a member of the SPLHave retained all of their playersHave received their £2.5million prize moneyNot be hamstrung by a player registration embargo
    So looks like CG is saying the new club never saw the prize money (because it was not theirs )
    So I am assuming it went to BDO 
    I just can’t see CG forking out £2.5m to settle the football debts 
    Were they actually paid as ,we only have the honest and trust worthy SFA.s word for it 

    View Comment
  69. upthehoops


    WOTTPIDECEMBER 7, 2017 at 19:23 
    The usual suspects on Sportsound all just saying they were reporting on what the story was.Well the story has changed now. Will they now investigate and report exactly why T’Rangers didn’t get their man?Will they now have a good look under the Ibrox bonnet in the same way McInnes most likely has, come to the same conclusion and finally do some honest reporting ?

    ==============================

    Before I make my point it was great to hear the coverage on Sportsound of the work Clyde FC Community Foundation are doing with underprivileged people, and those who at one time took the wrong path but are trying to get on the straight and narrow. 

    Some of their statements re the McInnes situation were gobsmacking though. Forced to defend their six weeks blanket ‘he’s definitely going’ coverage, they actually said it was Dave King at the Rangers AGM who made them believe it was a done deal. Do they really believe that Dave King would say anything else at the AGM, whether it was true or not? King has surely not earned the right to be trusted in this way, but still it goes on, and will continue to go on. The only one who comes out with any credit is Michael Stewart, who had previously opined McInnes to Rangers was no given. Tom English gets a little credit for pointing out how embarrassing Rangers have become, but he was a member of the pack who hounded Aberdeen and McInnes for weeks. 

    Sadly though, if Rangers were now to focus on say, Tommy Wright, St Johnstone and their fans would suffer in exactly the same way. 

    Why don’t they just give it to Murty?

    View Comment
  70. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    EASYJAMBODECEMBER 7, 2017 at 19:25 2 0 Rate This
    fan of football December 7, 2017 at 19:20In your opinion would this be possible or would those monies have to be passed over to BDO=============================I’ve seen no evidence of the prize money that was withheld by the SPL having gone to the Oldco.
    ———–
    Correct me if i’m wrong,but was it not withheld to pay dundee utd or something?

    View Comment
  71. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    WOTTPIDECEMBER 7, 2017 at 19:23 9 0 Rate This
    The usual suspects on Sportsound all just saying they were reporting on what the story was.Well the story has changed now. Will they now investigate and report exactly why T’Rangers didn’t get their man?Will they now have a good look under the Ibrox bonnet in the same way McInnes most likely has, come to the same conclusion and finally do some honest reporting ?
    ————–
    SMUGASDECEMBER 6, 2017 at 20:29 51 0 Rate This
    Just in case you missed it Auldheid.  Kenny Macintyre on Sportsound just now (defending the media’s role in the McInnes saga),
    ”when a journalist uncovers some facts they report them.  That’s how it works.”
    Thought it would be a good opener for when you do tiffin with Tom.  They really are beyond contempt.
    —————–
    ”when a journalist uncovers some facts they report them.  That’s how it works.”01

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  72. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    Is this what people are talking about

    https://stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/150566-spl-seek-scottish-fa-clarification-over-rangers-debt-to-dundee-united/

    SPL seek Scottish FA clarification over Rangers’ debt to Dundee United

    The Ibrox side say the league agreed to pay a £31,031.20 debt on their behalf to the Terrors.

    The Scottish Premier League have sought clarification from the Scottish FA over an agreement previously struck to settle a debt owed by Rangers to Dundee United.

    The Tannadice side are owed just over £30,000 from Rangers, relating to a payment for gate receipts from a Scottish Cup tie between the two teams last season.

    Both governing bodies agreed to pay a percentage of the debt to United on the Ibrox club’s behalf, taken directly from withheld competition monies from the 2011/12 season.

    The SPL however disagree that they have a commitment to pay up, despite their secretary, Iain Blair, having sent a letter to Rangers on May 18 outlining their intention to do so.

    An SPL spokesperson told STV: “We are now discussing this matter with Andrew McKinlay, the Scottish FA’s director of football governance.
    “We will be making no further comment until those discussions have been concluded.”

    The letter, sent to Rangers by Blair, read: “The Board of the Scottish Premier League Ltd considered the application by Dundee United that the outstanding sum due by Rangers to Dundee United of £31,031.20 be offset against the next sums due to Rangers by SPL Ltd, with the offset sum being paid to Dundee United.

    “The board decided to accede the application to Dundee United and accordingly the sum will be withheld from the next sum payable by the SPL Ltd to Rangers, and the sum will be paid by the SPL Ltd to Dundee United.”
    Dundee United issued a statement on Wednesday morning stating they were still owed money. It is understood the Scottish FA have honoured their side of the agreement.

    Charles Green’s new company agreed to pay all outstanding football debts as part of the agreement which saw Rangers’ membership of the Scottish FA transferred.

    The businessman also agreed to waive any claim to £2.55m in prize money earned by Rangers for finishing second in the SPL in 2011/12. STV understands that money will instead be redistributed amongst the other 11 participants last campaign, using the league’s percentage based distribution model.

    On Wednesday afternoon, Green said in a statement: “As previously stated, Rangers Football Club can confirm it has paid all outstanding debts to Scottish football clubs, in addition to agreeing to waive all claims to unpaid fees accrued last season, as part of the Five Party Agreement which was a condition of Scottish FA membership.

    “A letter from the SPL to the club – dated May 18, 2012 – stated: ‘The board decided to accede to the application of Dundee United and accordingly, the sum will be withheld from the next sum payable by the SPL Limited to Rangers and the sum will be paid by the SPL Limited to Dundee United.’

    “Why the SPL have not paid Dundee United the outstanding sum as previously agreed is a question that they need to answer. We wrote to Dundee Utd on Monday explaining the SPL had previously confirmed they would pay it.

    “I spoke to Stewart Regan and his solicitor this morning and provided them with copies of all relevant documentation.”

    Outstanding payments

    SPL clubs are currently awaiting their annual payment from the league, in which each side receives 4% of the cash pot for the season.

    Although some teams are reportedly agitated at the delay, it is understood there is no fixed payment schedule or deadline by which payments are typically made.

    Last minute re-negotiations over the league’s television deal is believed to have contributed to the delay, with income not yet received from broadcasters to cover the payments to clubs.

    STV also understands that the SPL does not have a sufficient cash reserve to make emergency payments to clubs in lieu of cash being received from commercial partners.

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  73. easyJambo


    Cluster One December 7, 2017 at 20:08 EASYJAMBODECEMBER 7, 2017 at 19:25 2 0 Rate This fan of football December 7, 2017 at 19:20In your opinion would this be possible or would those monies have to be passed over to BDO
    =============================
    I’ve seen no evidence of the prize money that was withheld by the SPL having gone to the Oldco.
    ———–
    Correct me if i’m wrong,but was it not withheld to pay dundee utd or something?
    ==============================
    Some of it was handed to Dundee Utd, but the bulk of it was redistributed.

    https://stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/150566-spl-seek-scottish-fa-clarification-over-rangers-debt-to-dundee-united/

    Edit: Humunculus beat me to it……… Just!

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