We’re Gonny Need Another Baw.

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Some of us are old enough to remember the days when we played football in the streets with lamp posts for goals. The “baw” in my day was a plastic “Hampden Frido” (with wee studs that left yer forehead looking like a golf ball when heading it – see picture) and a “Wembley Mettoy”.

Cue memories of MouldMasters and days of pain and glory

But I digress.

The plastic ball was prone to bursting and on a good day or evening a replacement was secured by the original version of crowd funding.; However, the Calton then was a poor neighbourhood and sometimes the “baw” depended on the generosity of a single provider.

This came with risks because generous folk can still be bad losers and if the provider’s team of rags, taigs and bluenoses (remember when that didn’t matter)  was getting  a drubbing or a high shot was deemed a goal but he protested because he was only 4 feet 6  tall and ,with no crossbar ,height is but a subjective perspective, hence argumentative, or perhaps the goal that created a 10 goal  gap occasionally saw the baw ,metaphorical if not physically, land on the slates, at which point the provider and now owner, out of his sense of entitlement as owner, grab the baw and threatened to storm off in the huff.

As long as the game was everything and in the Calton then EVERYTHING was fitbaw, the bawless plebs were only too willing to reduce the imaginary cross bar height or take their foot off the gas, hence the derogatory saying of those who capitulate too easily “they hivnae any baws”.

Memories! Wit are they like and what is the connection to modern day Scottish professional football?

I’m indebted to this article by The Battered Bunnet first posted on CQN on 30 June 2012 at  https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/abject-failure-of-leadership/comment-page-2/#comment-1479329  since reproduced on other blogs including SFM but worth reproducing here:


“Senior Hampden source tells ch4news cannot see how RFC were allowed to play lastseason at all. Doesn’t believe they met finance criteria…”

Alex Thomson – Twitter


Alex Thomson’s tweets yesterday re ‘senior Hampden source’ casting doubt on Rangers’ eligibility to obtain a Club Licence last year were rather intriguing.

We have by now a clearer picture of the failure of governance at Rangers through the David Murray/ John McClelland/ Alastair Johnston/ Craig Whyte years, albeit we await further definitive details from the judgement of the Tax Tribunal. Essentially, over a period spanning 2 decades, the means that Rangers used to sustain its football operation utterly disregarded the requirements of both corporate governance and football regulation. While the scandal related solely to payments and procedures within Rangers, we could hope that it was contained internally.

However, the revelation that Rangers paid former manager Souness via EBT while he was manager at Blackburn Rovers confirmed for the first time that the scandal had become external. I understand that RangersTaxCase and Alex Thomson have further information on the extent of payments to Souness and also to Walter Smith, and look forward to the details being revealed, but it is now clear that the Rangers ‘toxin’ had leached out of the club by 2001.

The compelling question now is: How far did the toxin spread?

Was it contained within the ‘outer circle’ of former Rangers employees, however inexplicable such payments may appear? Or did it extend beyond that outer circle, and contaminate senior figures in the Game in Scotland. The contamination does not relate solely to payments from Rangers’offshore trust, but more subtly perhaps, the behaviour of individuals in positions of influence.

We know that Rangers’ Executive Chairman JohnMcClelland was an SPL Board member during the startling ramp up of EBT use from 2003 to 2005, and was himself a beneficiary of the scheme.

We know that Rangers’ Chief Executive Martin Bain was an SPL Board member 2008 to 2011, coinciding with the receipt by Rangers of the HMRC assessments on the EBT scheme, of which he was himself a beneficiary.

We know that current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie was simultaneously an SFA Director and Executive Director and Company Secretary of Rangers, and was a beneficiary of the scheme.

These parallel functions of course present a profound conflict of interest for each man, at once implementing a scam on the Game to disguise a fraud on the Revenue, while owing specific legal duties of care to the Game being scammed.

So far, so shabby.

Thomson’s tweets yesterday indicate a doubt on the part of a ‘senior Hampden source’ that Rangers were eligible to hold a Club Licence last season, thus disqualifying them from participating in European competition, and perhaps Scottish Football too. Is this doubt grounded in a retrospective review of the licence qualifying criteria given what has emerged recently? Or was there a ‘blind eye’ turned by the SFA’s Licensing Committee to information in the public domain at the time of the Licence application? In this respect the ‘Wee Tax Case’ represented a fundamental failure against at least one Licence criterion.

The proposals to the SFL clubs this week make it plain that should the SFA conclude the outstanding Disciplinary issues against Rangers with either suspension or expulsion of Rangers from the SFA(perhaps the only sanctions remaining available to the SFA following Lord Glennie’s Judicial Review) that the Game will face ‘financial meltdown’.

Concurrently, the SPL has adjudged Rangers to have a prima facie case to answer in respect of SPL rule breaches on player registration, the outcome of which will confirm that the club fielded ineligible players in upwards of 400 SPL matches. The only possible disciplinary outcome given such a sustained breach of SPL rules, corrupting the completion as it did from its inception in 1999 to 2011, is expulsion from theSPL.

As a consequence, the SFA, as the authority responsible for implementing FIFA’s Rules on the Registration of Players, will be required to act on these breaches of FIFA rules. Again, expulsion for what amounts to Championship fixing is inevitable.

Curiously, the SFL, this week asking its members to vote to admit the Sevco Rangers club into their top tier, has the same issue given that its League Cup competition featured dozens of ineligible Rangers players through the years, and further claims by Hugh Adam that its‘Premier Division’ competition during the 1990s was similarly bent through the use of ‘off the books’ payments to players by Rangers.

The scale of it all is breath-taking and were the rules of the Game to be applied, Rangers FC would be expelled from each Governing body in turn, before we even consider the extraordinary breaches of faith and duties by co-serving Directors.

But according to the SFL/SFA/SPL circular to clubs, “Rangers Terminated or Suspended’ will cause “Financial Meltdown”.

To avoid this meltdown, it is proposed by the Executives of the combined SFL/SFA/SPL that the rules of the Game are not applied to Rangers, and that the clubs effectively rewrite the rule book to permit what remains of the club to compete at the top of the SFL.

In effect, according to the Governing Bodies,the Rules of the Game CANNOT be applied to Rangers or the Game’s finances will‘meltdown’.

The corollary question this raises is: For how long have the Governing bodies been so unable to apply the Rules of the Game to Rangers? Is this a new epiphany, or a longer standing recognition?

When Rangers submitted their allegedly ineligible application for a Club Licence in 2011, did the SFA recognise that Rangers failing to participate in Europe would cause the club to fail, as it subsequently did? Were the Rules ignored to avoid ‘financial meltdown’ then?

How far did the toxin spread?

Did this recognition extend back to the period following the disintegration of Murray International, hitherto Rangers’ source of continuing funding? Was the season of ‘Honest Mistakes’ some absurd, dutiful reaction to the recognition that should Rangers fail, Scottish Football would melt down?

Was the ineligible status of so many of Rangers’ first team players noticed prior to the SPL’s Inquiry commencing on 5th March? Was it noticed in an Audit as part of the SFA’s Club Licensing process some years ago? Was it noticed by the recent SFA Chief Executive Gordon Smith, who as an Agent had represented players on Rangers’ books through his Directorship of Prostar Management and other Agencies?

Beyond the duplicity of Ogilvie, McClelland and Bain, were Rangers’ irregular practices known to others at the SFA and SPL,others who chose not to address the matter, thus further contaminated the Governing Bodies with the Rangers toxin?

It is heartening that the Liquidators of Rangers plc will be instructed to examine all of the circumstances surrounding the failure of Rangers as a corporate entity. Equally, perhaps the detail contained in the Tax Tribunal judgement will reveal further connections,hitherto unknown.

What is likely to remain hidden from view though, is the full extent to which key influencers at the Governing Bodies were aware of Rangers’ conduct and circumstances, and how this affected their behaviour and their decision making in applying the rules of the Game to that club.

What we can say with certainty now though is that the people holding office at the Governing Bodies are unable or unwilling to apply the Rules of the Game to Rangers, despite the breaches being fundamentally and profoundly corrupt. The SFA and SPL, despite having outstanding disciplinary cases against Rangers that will, in all other circumstances see the club expelled from the Game, are intent to delete the cases provided the SFL clubs accept the Sevco Rangers into the SFL’s top division.

The Rules of the Game cannot be applied to Rangers.

When the rules cannot be applied, the Game itself is broken, and we can say now with some certainty that the Rangers toxin has spread beyond the club, its former employees and Directors of the Governing Bodies, and contaminated the very Game itself. The Office Bearers of the SFA,whose FIFA mandate requires them to “protect and foster the Game” in Scotland,and “protect it from abuses”, have contrived to do the contrary, to the point where the Game is stricken.

It is for this reason that a thorough clear out of the Office Bearers in the Governing Bodies is now a prerequisite to the Game recovering from the poison inflicted upon it by Rangers. The dissolution of the Governing Bodies is perhaps appropriate.

Clear your desk Gentlemen, the bus to ignominy departs shortly.


The position that the SFA and then SPL found themselves in is perfectly clear from the foregoing. Desperately keen for commercial reasons to hold onto the “baw” they changed the rules, but never took ownership of the baw from the owner and so are still beholden to him.

Hence the blog title “We Are Going To Need Another Baw “ because the one currently in play is burst, stuffed with £14M worth of share vouchers.

What was done in 2012 was understandably commercially necessary, but the price to be paid was twofold:

  1. Not just to the integrity of our game then but the ongoing price now, where all energies are directed at continuing to pretend that the rules are followed without fear of favour.
  2. The idea that the Scottish game cannot survive without a “ Rangers”  is one that most folk would accept but the danger arising, which is unacceptable, is that because of it “Rangers” think they can do as they please as a result which requires rules to be reinforced. And seen to be reinforced.

They clearly aren’t under the SFA’s own rule enforcing process called the Judicial Panel Protocol  https://www.sfm.scot/jpp-perverting-justice/   not to mention Club Licensing processes that have so far manged to avoid the scrutiny that, had Resolution 12 been acted upon in 2013,  would have resulted in changes that would protect the game from all those who think it is still their baw.

The general perception of supporters is that lessons have not been learned from past behaviour.

Until there is evidence that they have, for example: the Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal investigating at snail’s pace the process followed in 2011 that allowed a UEFA licence to be granted to Rangers FC without question, coming to conclusion or providing reasons why it cannot by the spring, the perception will continue to be   “Its all about Rangers”  followed by what is the point?.

Is it not about time now that the fear that drove thinking in 2012 was faced and recognised by all clubs as unfounded and a new integrity filled baw was used?

What is there to fear now from restoring integrity to its rightful place, unless of course you were party to the thinking that kicked the integrity of our game to death in 2012 and are still in a position of influence?

1434 COMMENTS


  1. I like to read The Media section of Kerrydale Street partly to gauge the current levels of sycophancy and partly to remind myself why I wouldn't give them a penny.

    Yesterday someone cut and pasted an article in the Sunday Mail by Gordon Waddell in which SFA disciplinary matters were wrestled with.

    Mr Waddell's opinion is, as expected, neither here nor there but what caught my eye was a reference to Celtic's use of Senior Counsel; namely the brilliant but late John Paul McBride, Q.C.

    As Private Eye would put it: Who he?

    The online version of the article now refers to Paul McBride but I'm struggling to think of an adequate reason why the Kerrydale Street poster's version couldn't get the man's name right.

    Anybody daft enough to buy the print version of the Sunday Mail and confirm what appeared there?

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  2. The 'Herald''s Martin Williams page 2 report this morning reminds the world that King's Counsel, the Lord Davison of Glen Cova, told the Court that King 'is penniless'.

    What a chump he must feel at accepting instructions from such a client! 

    Williams reports that while King was permitted time to engineer his way out of having both to spend millions and avoid a contempt of court charge, his hubris will nevertheless set him back an estimated £600,000 (excluding VAT) and will cost RIFC plc an estimated £52,000.

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  3. And so we have a new head of BBC Scotland, Steve Carson.

    Will he ungag our Sportsound people, let them talk about the new club being new, and the 5-Way agreement? And the Res 12 ducking and diving? 

    Will he free up our 'newshounds' to ask serious questions about the 'Big Lie'?

    Since he apparently 'ticked all of BBC Scotlnd's boxes' for the new role, I somehow doubt it.

     

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  4. While at the start of the season I expected Celtic to win the league title, yesterday's result indeed took them a step further to that aim but the league still has a bit to go.

    On that basis I note we are now some hours on from the end of the game a Rugby Park and the tumbleweed seems to be rolling around the streets of SFM.

    From 29 January 2019 Phil Mac Giolla Bhain asked the following question:-

    "Consider then what type of club and what type of support base feels it appropriate to spill onto the pitch at Livingston (but now feel free to insert ground of your choice) after winning a league match.

    After winning a league match…"

     

    Answers on a post card please.

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  5. Morning JC… sounds like you have a couple of letters up your sleeve? broken heart

     

    And roll on Wednesday evening…

    when hopefully sporting karma will deal a severe blow to a club/team trying to cheat everyone that it is actually the same cheating club/team currently in liquidation.

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  6. wottpi 18th February 2019 at 10:32

    When I see the instant TD's you got I almost regret my annual donation.  Come on guys, surely SFM is not just a wee Celtic blog?  Pitch invasions at league games is the same bollox regardless of which teams' supporters are involved. 

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  7. wottpi 18th February 2019 at 10:32

     

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    While at the start of the season I expected Celtic to win the league title, yesterday's result indeed took them a step further to that aim but the league still has a bit to go.

    On that basis I note we are now some hours on from the end of the game a Rugby Park and the tumbleweed seems to be rolling around the streets of SFM.

    From 29 January 2019 Phil Mac Giolla Bhain asked the following question:-

    "Consider then what type of club and what type of support base feels it appropriate to spill onto the pitch at Livingston (but now feel free to insert ground of your choice) after winning a league match.

    After winning a league match…"

     

    Answers on a post card please.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

    Spot on wottpi.

    A small section of over-exuberant idiots, get their captain sent-off. Although it could be argued he never went into the crowd as by jumping the advertising board, he was still 10+ metres from the designated crowd section. It was the crown encroaching the playing area, not the player going into the crowd.

     

    That said, it make no difference who or where this happens it should be the same result for all. If I had my way, I would fine the hosting club, for any crowd ingress and allow them to seek redress from the visiting club, if the offending fans came from their designated ground space. 

     

    Then identify and fine the offending fans via the courts, (if possible). Maybe curb their enthusiasm if faced with a £500 fine???

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  8. Purely in the interests of research, I bought a Daily Record today.  I know.

    Even in my callow youth I knew it was a crap paper… but I bought it daily…for its footy coverage!

    Ha! 

    But I did eventually stop buying it when I realised it took me less and less time to read the paper: it was just full of whole page and half page adverts.

    Ok, it's taken a while but as an Internet Bampot I now fully appreciate the DR's 'quality' WRT footy coverage. 🙁

    So, out of curiosity I grudgingly handed over 80p for today's copy.

    Monday's edition has 52 pages.

    Of these, there are about 8 pages of obvious, paid-for, third party advertising, [or c.15% of revenue generating content].

    [I chose to ignore any overt or probable 'sponsored content'.]

    On the face of it, and based on memory, this advertising content seems incredibly small now.

    Digital advertising is swallowing up that business, of course.

    My point is: everyone knows that circulation figures for print newspapers continue to fall off a cliff, at typically double digit percentage declines, year on year.

    But, based on my unscientific, single sample size research… the newspapers' advertising revenue must be declining at a significantly faster rate than perhaps expected.

    Ergo, the likes of Jackson, Waddell etc. at the DR will probably not be 'sports journalists' for much longer.

    They can take their misinformation, copying/pasting, wilful ignorance of the truth WRT to TRFC… and just b#gger off!

    Which would be nice, IMO.

    broken heart 

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  9. StevieBC @12.59

    They can take their misinformation, copying/pasting, wilful ignorance of the truth WRT to TRFC… and just b#gger off!

    ——————————————————————————–

    Oh I think they know the truth but like all the rest won't print it!!

    While I'm here can I just add my agreement with normanbatesmumfc, ernie and wottpi on the field invasion issue. I see Steve Clarke is taking it as a massive backhanded compliment to Killie (with his tongue firmly in his cheek I suspect).

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  10.  

    wottpi 18th February 2019 at 10:32

    When I see the instant TD's you got I almost regret my annual donation.  Come on guys, surely SFM is not just a wee Celtic blog?  Pitch invasions at league games is the same bollox regardless of which teams' supporters are involved

    ———

    Agreed and there will be no mention of it.

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  11. A pitch invasion / incursion by fans is not right, in any scenario.

    Agreed, absolutely!

     

    IMO, Bampots – and certainly CFC fans like myself – are probably ambivalent about the Kilmarnock celebrations simply because the previous 2 or 3 TRFC fans' incursions hardly registered in the SMSM.

    More importantly: nobody at Hampden seemed to take any notice, and no punishment was forthcoming.

     

    Might read like 'whitaboutery', but if there is consistency then CFC has nothing to worry about.

    [Seats damage and flare(s) are a different matter though].

     

    Being as objective as possible: CFC should be hammered by the Hampden blazers for the fans' getting over the advertising hoardings.

    But, yet again, Hampden has created its own problems by looking the other way when it suits, and further 'inconsistencies' are fully noticed by clubs and supporters.

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  12. And if anyone still had any lingering doubts about just how awful the DR is…

    to appease their preferred demographic after a tough weekend – it comes up with this hard hitting piece of journalism 🙁 with the headline;

     

    "Kid sings sectarian song calling Rangers kitman Jimmy Bell 'orange b******' as Celtic fans join in"

    ==========

    And unsurprisingly, nobody at the DR wants to be named;

    "By Record Reporter"

     

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  13. Good to see most of us are indeed not apologists for pitch "invasion" as a matter of standard celebrating a win but I also agree with StevieBC that it is not whataboutery to expect no more to be done about this event after letting previous go by without action.  As he says the SFA have really boxed themselves in by ignoring the multiple TRFC pitch dancing.  This is also the route of all the noise around compliance officers, retrospective bans and all that.  If they hadn't let the wee sleekit hacker off the hook for his first McKenna sending off at the start of the season I suspect we wouldn't have to go through forensic analysis every week thereafter in some vain effort to justify their actions.

    Of course I also expected them to be "boxed in" over other registration misdemeanours (remembering that even honest mistakes are no defence in these cases) having handed out derisory punishment for ten years of old Rangers premeditated cheating but no, their brass neck kicks in on that one so you never know.  Shame on them.

     

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  14. JohnClark@08.56

    I had a quick peruse through Steve Carson’s LinkedIn profile and I think it’s fair to say there won’t be much change in the world view of BBC Scotland. After some time as a freelancer he worked for RTÈ and BBC NI. No boats will be rocked.

     

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  15. Can someone clarify where a pitch starts and ends ,is it the playing surface only does it encompass the advertising hoardings when exactly does it become a pitch “invasion “young supporters  who struggle to see much of the game from their disadvantaged positions then celebrate a game winning goal and want to hug their Captain who had been getting  booed for  the past fifteen minutes of the game,pitch invasion indeed here in Scotland we don’t have pitch invasions,oh wait a minute 

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  16.     Celtic supporters have challenged the SFA to take action. Either deliberately or accidentally, that is the upshot. 

         I think we are all in agreement that fans should not be on the pitch under any circumstances, and that fans and clubs involved deserve a pummelling. 

         Action should have been taken sooner by the SFA. It has openly seen to be "allowed". Their failure to act, is in part responsible for the Celtic fans behaviour.  That is beyond doubt. 

         Now they are in a wee bit of a pickle. 

         They will need to concoct a new rule whereby they couldn't bust others, because of "X", but they can bust Celtic, because of "Y"….

         Otherwise. Having let it go previously, they can't do anything !…………Yep !….A right wee pickle. 

         I am not condoning Celtic fan's behaviour, and if something isn't done it could easily get a bit mental…….. The SFA have painted themselves into a corner again.

         But they need to do something or everybody will be at it soon. It may be good-natured, but that doesn't mean it is safe. They have a duty of care.

         But how can they act now, while trying to "appear", to be acting without fear or favour?

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  17. Colour me suspicious or paranoid or whatever you want I have just watched the Killie v Celtic game and blow me down with a feather but maybe someone at sky is psychic. The ball goes out for a throw to Killie and rather than keep the cameras on the action sky decide to show boyd warming up then the singing starts, and then they zoom in on him as the coin or change from the half time pie he got someone in the crowd to get for him arrives bounces to the ground almost as if they knew then back to the action which is at the half way line now.

    I also think that the pitch invasion hasn't been discussed on here as it has been headline news everywhere already. Which by all accounts is unusual as pitch invasions are not usually mentioned unless it's by fans of a team not called sevco I did hear that it has been reported in the Genghis Khan finishing school for young ladies weekly newsletter thumb downers go ahead do your worst LMFAO.

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  18. As I suggested before , once they are have gone over , there's no way they should be allowed back into their seats . Escorted out of the ground , preferably in cuffs . 

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  19. easyJambo 18th February 2019 at 18:04

    Stewart Robertson uses an in-house RTV interview about the disciplinary process to have a go at the BBC, but fails to mention why the BBC does not attend Ibrox.

    ==============================================

    …and BBC's answer is to continue to lift sugar coated stories straight from the Rangers website and repeat them on their own website without challenge. If Graham Spiers is correct then the BBC offered to end the dispute with Rangers who said no. It concerns me that BBC made the move, and what were they prepared to compromise on? Rangers hold massive cultural power within Scotland but if there is one organisation which should consider itself big enough not to be intimidated then it's the BBC. Shame on them. 

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  20. upthehoops 18th February 2019 at 20:42

    "…..If Graham Spiers is correct then the BBC offered to end the dispute with Rangers who said no. It concerns me that BBC made the move, and what were they prepared to compromise on? "

    ************************

    I'm obliged by my own insistence on 'Truth' , uth, to say that  I have it on pretty reliable authority that while the BBC offered to end the dispute, they refused to allow TRFC to dictate which sports journalist(s) should be allowed access.

    TRFC's beef was, apparently, against one particular journalist, whom they wanted 'banned' as a persona non grata .

    Refusing to be dictated to is no more than the BBC should have done, so I'm not giving them any particular credit for that, merely recording the fact!

     

     

     

     

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  21. shug 18th February 2019 at 20:39

    Yup , make an example , Most looked to be the age of consent or older, and should be held responsible for their action . Those under , let's see what their parent/guardian says when they go to pick them up from custody . Everybody knows that the fans are not allowed on the pitch or apron .

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  22. paddy malarkey 18th February 2019 at 21:20

     

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    shug 18th February 2019 at 20:39

    Yup , make an example , Most looked to be the age of consent or older, and should be held responsible for their action . Those under , let's see what their parent/guardian says when they go to pick them up from custody . Everybody knows that the fans are not allowed on the pitch or apron .

     

    ============================================================

    I was agreeing with you.

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  23. The bigger issue for me is that my club has now allied itself with that sevco lot.I wish dempster and petrie would just take themselves and their season books and F++k off over to the club they love.

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  24. John Clark 18th February 2019 at 21:02

    =============================

    Fair enough if that's the case John. It still hacks me off though how other clubs are subjected to critical analysis on the BBC and their Managers are often asked awkward questions, while Rangers basically get free unchallenged coverage all based on puff piece coverage from their own website. It's just not right. 

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  25. Level42 must be dreaming up a list of all sorts of squirrels just now…

     

    to be released on Thursday if TRFC doesn’t overcome Killie at Ibrox.

     

    And, as it seems to be 'the season' for inconsistencies, I expect that whatever happens on Wednesday night – there's guaranteed to be plenty of controversy.

    IMO.

    indecision

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  26. shug 18th February 2019 at 19:37

     

    Pitch invaded, coins thrown, seats damaged, songs sung – throw in a few instances of  pyros, smashed buckie bottles, peeing in closes etc etc

    Like all clubs, you have a section of total zoomers in your fan base.

    Step up and own the problem.

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  27. Corrupt official 18th February 2019 at 18:02
    39 1 Rate This

    Celtic supporters have challenged the SFA to take action. Either deliberately or accidentally, that is the upshot. 
    
     I think we are all in agreement that fans should not be on the pitch under any circumstances, and that fans and clubs involved deserve a pummelling. 
    
     Action should have been taken sooner by the SFA. It has openly seen to be "allowed". Their failure to act, is in part responsible for the Celtic fans behaviour.  That is beyond doubt. 
    
     Now they are in a wee bit of a pickle. 
    
     They will need to concoct a new rule whereby they couldn't bust others, because of "X", but they can bust Celtic, because of "Y"….
    
     Otherwise. Having let it go previously, they can't do anything !…………Yep !….A right wee pickle. 
    
     I am not condoning Celtic fan's behaviour, and if something isn't done it could easily get a bit mental…….. The SFA have painted themselves into a corner again.
    
     But they need to do something or everybody will be at it soon. It may be good-natured, but that doesn't mean it is safe. They have a duty of care.
    
     But how can they act now, while trying to "appear", to be acting without fear or favour?
    

    ………………….
    Action should have been taken sooner by the SFA. It has openly seen to be “allowed”.
    ……….
    Yes, there has been no news or reports of how much a club is fined for a (pitch invasion) or if the fans who invade the pitch it is their club that is also fined.
    When is a (pitch invasion)not a pitch invasion.
    A bit of clarity and transparency, would not go amiss.

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  28. wottpi 19th February 2019 at 09:44

     

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    shug 18th February 2019 at 19:37

     

    Pitch invaded, coins thrown, seats damaged, songs sung – throw in a few instances of  pyros, smashed buckie bottles, peeing in closes etc etc

    Like all clubs, you have a section of total zoomers in your fan base.

    Step up and own the problem.

    ========================================================

    Every club has them and I do mean every club I remember a few years ago my village club the Violets were playing the Roman bar club from Camelon and it looked like there was only a handful of Violet fans there and at the start there was only a few. When all the other support was there it was like Custer's last stand as all these locals suddenly appeared from nowhere cars on the pitch chasing players they had to get half a dozen black marias out (we still call them that in this old place) to quell the hell that broke loose.  BTW this was Sunday league clubs

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  29. shug 18th February 2019 at 19:37
    Colour me suspicious or paranoid or whatever you want I have just watched the Killie v Celtic game and blow me down with a feather but maybe someone at sky is psychic. The ball goes out for a throw to Killie and rather than keep the cameras on the action sky decide to show boyd warming up then the singing starts, and then they zoom in on him as the coin or change from the half time pie he got someone in the crowd to get for him arrives bounces to the ground almost as if they knew then back to the action which is at the half way line now.
    ………………
    I have not seen the sky footage, but don’t players normally warm up in front of their own fans?
    Someone can point me in the right direction.

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  30. "…After going into detail about Rangers' view of the stand-off with the broadcaster, Robertson added:

    "It is important the compliance officer isn't influenced unduly by Sportscene given that background…"

    ================

    Hmm…

    To me, that reads as the TRFC MD – very publicly – questioning the impartiality, integrity, and professionalism of the C.O.

    A lady with a background in criminal law, no less.

     

    It also reads as a rather subtle method of intimidation directed at the CO.

     

    But, whatever the motivation for Robertson's comments about the CO, the SFA should defend – very publicly – their member of staff.

     

    Or, is Robertson trying to – in a sleekit manner – orchestrate Clare Whyte's resignation?

     

    Well, she must be fizzing: will the SFA do the right thing…?

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  31. Cluster One @ 10.56

    I have not seen the sky footage, but don’t players normally warm up in front of their own fans?
    Someone can point me in the right direction.

    —————————————————————————–

    Not sure if there is any rule about this but I can see some difficulty applying that for example with Dons players at Celtic Park or Ibrox given where our fans are normally allocated seats cool. Think you are clutching at straws if you are suggesting "provocation"!

     

     

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  32. IIRC Doug Rougvie used to warm up specifically in front of opposition fans (in particular the Old Firm (TM)) in a fairly provocative manner (those who saw it will know what I mean) back in the day.  Mind you we used to win occasionally back then, a similar wind up now would be laughable.  The serious point being all clubs sometimes, should even, have players who wind up the opposition and we all love them when they are in our team.  Rougvie, and more topically, Boyd and Brown are good examples.  Long may they continue and the fans should enjoy the carry on they generate and refrain from the gammon faced hatred never mind throwing stuff at them.

     

     

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  33. bordersdon 19th February 2019 at 11:29
    Think you are clutching at straws if you are suggesting “provocation”!
    ………………
    No, just looking for clarification

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  34. StevieBC@11.17

    I’m sure the CO must know by now how things really work in Scottish football and I’m equally certain that she can look after her own interests. That RTV statement has all the hallmarks of a very large squirrel that is being made ready for deployment should Gerrard’s Eleven fail to progress in the Scottish Cup. Something along the lines of “if it wasn’t for that pesky CO then Stevie’s team would have won something this season “

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  35. SR not happy with as he calls it rerefereeing among other things. Now I have always made my feelings known that all refs should declare any alleigence to any club. I firmly believe that a vast amount of refs will have a preference to Ibrox club (Paul Larkin documentary highlights this issue). The old Ibrox club had the benefit of this IMO bias in their favour and it still prevails to aid the new Ibrox club. SR seems not to have an issue with the refs and would like their decision  to stand and not be analysed or changed. Really ffs. I openly welcome any measure that ensures the right decision is made.  I have absolute no faith in our refs or SFA as things stand. How things have changed to the extend where an Ibrox club has more or less stated that the SFA and the smsm are biased against them. They still maintain they are the same club because our SFA and smsm have not the baws to tell the truth. Only in Scotland.

     

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  36. John Clark 18th February 2019 at 09:35

    Martin Williams at The Herald doesn't seem to knock his pan in delving for, presumably, EXCLUSIVE stories on the cost to GASH for faffing about with his Concert Party. I'm guessing The Evening Times has also run this story as I have read references to "papers seen by our sister paper, The Herald" and then fees of £600,000.00 and £52,000.00 being reported as news.

    As was the case with the Irrevocable Undertakings these sums were released with the Statement on 25th January 2019. 

    So information that was in the public domain over three weeks ago is news?

    Can we expect a Statement condemning the lack of respect shown to Statements?

    I seem to recall someone (Homunculus?) queried why RIFC incurred any fees far less £52,000.00.

    Were we not told ad nauseam that it had nothing to do with The Rangers?

    I know that if I got a fifty grand bill for something that had nothing to do with me I wouldn't be settling it with alacrity or without a few questions.

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  37. valentinesclown 19th February 2019 at 12:24

    '..They still maintain they are the same club '

    ***************

    It is their own knowledge of the truth that they have no legitimate  title to the sporting achievements of the Rangers of 1872 that drives them to gnash their teeth and ragingly insist and curse and swear that they are the Rangers of 1872. Like Violet Elizabeth Bott , they'll 'squeam and squeam and squeam until I'm sick

    The successful launch of the IPO, and its legitimacy in the market,  required that  the fiction be created that the SevcoScotland /RIFC share-exchange was no more than a change of ownership of the Rangers of 1872. But SevcoScotland was not RFC of 1872. It was a brand new football club.

    But ,to the eternal shame and disgrace of Scottish Football, they were aided in that duplicity by the very governance body of the Sport.

    The SFA knows the truth, Scottish Football knows the truth, and sure as hell, the general run of hacks in the SMSM know the truth. 

    They choke on it, of course, but have neither the will nor the guts to acknowledge that truth.

    All they have is  the hope that by attempts to deflect and by the constant, insistent propagation of the Lie, ( see Goebbels) the passage of time will cause us all to forget that our Sport is presently founded on a proposition that is the very antithesis  of Integrity in Sport, namely, that a six-and-a-bit-year-old club can legitimately claim to be a much older club the dishonesty of the majority shareholder thereof caused it to be liquidated and lose its entitlement to be part of Scottish football.

      

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  38. Robertson is also unwittingly – or wittingly – cranking up the pressure for Wednesday night.

    Why doesn't he just come straight out with the football managers' favourite cliche;

    "I hope the ref is strong against Kilmarnock…"

     

    Prediction;

    – if TRFC win, then it will be followed by 'an exuberant' celebration by their own fans on the pitch. 

     

    – if Killie win, then Gerrard will be sent to the stands, and the game will be followed by an onfield 'display of displeasure' by home fans.

     

    Just a pity the game is not being shown live on TV.

     

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  39. shug 18th February 2019 at 19:37
    Colour me suspicious or paranoid or whatever you want I have just watched the Killie v Celtic game and blow me down with a feather but maybe someone at sky is psychic. The ball goes out for a throw to Killie and rather than keep the cameras on the action sky decide to show boyd warming up then the singing starts, and then they zoom in on him as the coin or change from the half time pie he got someone in the crowd to get for him arrives bounces to the ground almost as if they knew then back to the action which is at the half way line now.
    ………………
    I have not seen the sky footage, but don’t players normally warm up in front of their own fans?
    Someone can point me in the right direction.

    ============================================

    He was warming up directly in front of Celtic fans the stairway gate had 26 on it there were what looks like a couple of disabled sheds with willie hill on the front of 1 and duncan mcinnes name I think on the other. He and 2 others were warming up though boyd looked as though he was just swaying about a bit they made sure to keep the wee sheds between them and the Celtic fans to be fair the way killie were shooting he was behind the his own goal over to the keepers left just before what looks like an exit i’m sure a killie fan will know.

     

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  40. John Clark 19th February 2019 at 13:47

    You're forgetting about stuff like this , JC , before the fix was implemented .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/18703183

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11788/7868304/spl-vote-against-gers-newco

    They even used the "L" word .

    This from the second link

    Warnings have been made in the last few days that up to half the SPL clubs could go into administration if the Ibrox club are in the bottom tier.

    So what went wrong/right ?

     

     

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  41. So much for killie players being in danger.

    KILMARNOCK midfielder Rory McKenzie has broken ranks with his club captain Kris Boyd and club owner Billy Bowie by stating that the Celtic supporters who came onto the pitch after Scott Brown’s 91st minute goal at Rugby Park on Sunday did NOT put the Killie players’ safety at risk.

    The Killie star admitted that there was no malice involved, stated that it was mostly youngsters and said that they were mostly interested in getting a selfie with one of their Hoops heroes.

    “Obviously conceding a goal that late wasn’t nice and then to have Celtic fans on in your face wasn’t nice as well,” McKenzie stated today to the media.

    “The few that come in, there was no malice in it at all, most of them that I saw were young kids.

    “To be fair they had their phones out. I think they were just trying to get pictures, there was no badness.

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  42. paddy malarkey 19th February 2019 at 15:12
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/18703183
    ………………..
    Mr Doncaster is all over the place in his statement.
    ……….
    SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster said prior to Wednesday’s meeting that three options were available regarding where Rangers should play next season.

    He said: “The three viable options are effectively: bringing ‘newco’ Rangers back into the SPL with a range of appropriate sanctions; putting Rangers into the second tier of Scottish football; or Rangers going into the bottom of the pyramid into Division Three.

    “The third option, I was keen to stress yesterday, would inflict massive damage on the whole of the game in Scotland and effectively punish 41 innocent clubs for the misdeeds of one.”

    Regarding the possibility of Rangers heading down to the First Division next season, Doncaster added: “There’s lots of things that need to happen before that might take place.
    …………..
    1.bringing ‘newco’ Rangers back into the SPL… How can you bring a newco rangers back?
    2.putting Rangers into the second tier of Scottish football.so now he is suggesting putting rangers into the second tier.
    3.Rangers going into the bottom of the pyramid into Division Three.So now he is suggesting rangers going into the bottom.
    4.Regarding the possibility of Rangers heading down to the First Division next season,So now he is suggesting rangers are heading down.
    In that short statement he went from bringing a newco rangers back, to putting rangers into the second tier, to rangers going into the bottom, to rangers heading down.

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  43.  

    Cluster One 19th February 2019 at 10:09 

    Action should have been taken sooner by the SFA. It has openly seen to be “allowed”. ………. Yes, there has been no news or reports of how much a club is fined for a (pitch invasion) or if the fans who invade the pitch it is their club that is also fined. When is a (pitch invasion)not a pitch invasion. A bit of clarity and transparency, would not go amiss.

    ————————————————————————–

    There was the occasion, when Motherwell fans were cited for celebrating a victory over Sevco, when they were really trying to defend their players from being attacked.indecision ..

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3187238/Motherwell-face-punishment-Fir-Park-pitch-invasion-Rangers-play-victory.html

     

        Allowing fans on the pitch will inevitably result in trouble, somehow, sometime. The SFA need to take action, and explain why they haven't acted until now, or the next time…..Everybody knows it must be stopped !

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  44. Just watched the Motherwell v Hearts game and as many as 7 Motherwell players left the pitch after scoring their 93nd minute winner. They were literally in amongst the fans how many were booked do you think. I will say that tom aldred was booked in the 56th minute and he was one of those players celebrating with their fans so how many players did Motherwell have on the park at the end of the game.

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  45. Corrupt official 19th February 2019 at 18:48 ……………… SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster announced earlier this week that the league body was considering action and it has now made its move. It said in a statement: 'The SPFL has today announced it has charged Motherwell FC with alleged breaches of SPFL Rules in relation to alleged Unacceptable Conduct on the occasion of the Premiership/Championship Play-Off Final Match at Fir Park on Sunday 31 May 2015. 'The charges relate to aspects of match organisation, security arrangements and supporter organisation. They do not concern aspects of player behaviour which have been dealt with by the Scottish FA. ……………….. Not read a statement like that all season.

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  46. IFAB Law 12:

     

    'Celebration of a goal:

    Players can celebrate when a goal is scored, but the celebration must not be excessive; choreographed celebrations are not encouraged and must not cause excessive time-wasting. Leaving the field of play to celebrate a goal is not a cautionable offence but players should return as soon as possible.

    A player must be cautioned for:

    • climbing onto a perimeter fence and/or approaching the spectators in a manner which causes safety and/or security issues

    • gesturing or acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory way…'

    ———————————————————–

     

    Did Brown's actions cause a 'safety and/or security issue'? Yes.

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  47. Jingso.Jimsie 19th February 2019 at 19:32

     

    5

     

    1

     

    Rate This

     

     

    IFAB Law 12:

     

    'Celebration of a goal:

    Players can celebrate when a goal is scored, but the celebration must not be excessive; choreographed celebrations are not encouraged and must not cause excessive time-wasting. Leaving the field of play to celebrate a goal is not a cautionable offence but players should return as soon as possible.

    A player must be cautioned for:

    • climbing onto a perimeter fence and/or approaching the spectators in a manner which causes safety and/or security issues

    • gesturing or acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory way…'

    ———————————————————–

     

    Did Brown's actions cause a 'safety and/or security issue'? Yes.

    =========================

    Are you saying that jumping into the crowd doesn't?

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  48. I think consistency is what is needed Browns was no different to the more-or-less one different outcomes regarding cards.

    Forrest gets booked for running to the fans against us yet Weah does the same when he scores same match doesn't get booked.

    7 Motherwell players do a very similar thing to brown one of them already booked different outcome regarding cards.

    Doesn't make sense to me.

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  49. All this stuff with Rangers publicly decrying the BBC. You would almost think they could see the league slipping away from them and need to apply a siege mentality charge to keep the fans on board. Of course, it always helps when so many of those fans work in the media and are only too happy to facilitate. If they were to go out of the Scottish Cup tonight you have to wonder what would be next. Things could get very dirty. 

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  50. Ex Ludo, yes interesting story.

    According to the DR there was another clubs’ 'summit' on Monday at Hampden.

    They managed to keep that quiet from the SMSM…?

    And looking back, it appears that TRFC's MD Robertson made his public criticisms – of the Disciplinary Process, and his personal aspersions on the CO Clare Whyte – just before this meeting…

     

    Don't know if this foreign refs idea is just a negotiating ploy, but would feel much more positive if noises were made about addressing the whole structure underpinning the path to becoming a Category 1 ref, and to proactively increase diversity.

    Not a quick fix at all, but some public mention from the clubs or the SFA would provide hope to the paying customers that meaningful change is being planned.

     

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  51. An interesting aside on a Radio Shortbread sports report discussing tonight's cup replay with the reporter discussing T'Rangers 'dropping points' at the weekend.

     

    It gets said all the time but I am just wondering what is the formula used by the MSM to determine what teams 'lose' points every weekend.

    Does it go something like

    Celtic to win all games.

    T'Rangers to win all home games and 90% of away games

    Aberdeen to win all home games but not when Celtic & T'Rangers call. Win 80% of away games etc etc

    Presumably all these guys reporting so assuredly on points being dropped must have a decent track record and  have a good amount of credit in their online betting accounts!

     

     

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  52. That there was a complete news blackout on this latest development regarding referees suggests that there is broad support for change. The VAR summit in Perth now looks to have been an effective smokescreen covering what was really going on. 

    Outsourcing refereeing services (hat tip to Auldheid there) would make John Fleming’s position difficult, maybe even impossible. 

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  53. Foreign Refs? Yes please. However if that can't happen we at least need a Referee recruitment programme where ability is the only requirement to advance. That is clearly not the case at the moment. 

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  54. Ex Ludo 20th February 2019 at 12:57

    Clicked your link and saw this as second post in 

     

    keith jackson‏ @tedermeatballs Feb 18

    More

    Monday column: Morelos has already cost Rangers the League Cup. Has he just lost them the title too?

    What club did Morelos play for in the final ?

    How can they lose something they've never had ?

    Has Morelos to carry the can for team selection and tactics as well as for his discipline problem ?

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  55. And on the spat between TRFC and the BBC , I wonder if any fans will be thankful for the latter's coverage 

    Coverage: Listen to BBC Radio Scotland, follow live text commentary on the BBC Sport Scotland website, and watch highlights on Sportscene.

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