We’re Gonny Need Another Baw.

1434
260232

Some of us are old enough to remember the days when we played football in the streets with lamp posts for goals. The “baw” in my day was a plastic “Hampden Frido” (with wee studs that left yer forehead looking like a golf ball when heading it – see picture) and a “Wembley Mettoy”.

Cue memories of MouldMasters and days of pain and glory

But I digress.

The plastic ball was prone to bursting and on a good day or evening a replacement was secured by the original version of crowd funding.; However, the Calton then was a poor neighbourhood and sometimes the “baw” depended on the generosity of a single provider.

This came with risks because generous folk can still be bad losers and if the provider’s team of rags, taigs and bluenoses (remember when that didn’t matter)  was getting  a drubbing or a high shot was deemed a goal but he protested because he was only 4 feet 6  tall and ,with no crossbar ,height is but a subjective perspective, hence argumentative, or perhaps the goal that created a 10 goal  gap occasionally saw the baw ,metaphorical if not physically, land on the slates, at which point the provider and now owner, out of his sense of entitlement as owner, grab the baw and threatened to storm off in the huff.

As long as the game was everything and in the Calton then EVERYTHING was fitbaw, the bawless plebs were only too willing to reduce the imaginary cross bar height or take their foot off the gas, hence the derogatory saying of those who capitulate too easily “they hivnae any baws”.

Memories! Wit are they like and what is the connection to modern day Scottish professional football?

I’m indebted to this article by The Battered Bunnet first posted on CQN on 30 June 2012 at  https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/abject-failure-of-leadership/comment-page-2/#comment-1479329  since reproduced on other blogs including SFM but worth reproducing here:


“Senior Hampden source tells ch4news cannot see how RFC were allowed to play lastseason at all. Doesn’t believe they met finance criteria…”

Alex Thomson – Twitter


Alex Thomson’s tweets yesterday re ‘senior Hampden source’ casting doubt on Rangers’ eligibility to obtain a Club Licence last year were rather intriguing.

We have by now a clearer picture of the failure of governance at Rangers through the David Murray/ John McClelland/ Alastair Johnston/ Craig Whyte years, albeit we await further definitive details from the judgement of the Tax Tribunal. Essentially, over a period spanning 2 decades, the means that Rangers used to sustain its football operation utterly disregarded the requirements of both corporate governance and football regulation. While the scandal related solely to payments and procedures within Rangers, we could hope that it was contained internally.

However, the revelation that Rangers paid former manager Souness via EBT while he was manager at Blackburn Rovers confirmed for the first time that the scandal had become external. I understand that RangersTaxCase and Alex Thomson have further information on the extent of payments to Souness and also to Walter Smith, and look forward to the details being revealed, but it is now clear that the Rangers ‘toxin’ had leached out of the club by 2001.

The compelling question now is: How far did the toxin spread?

Was it contained within the ‘outer circle’ of former Rangers employees, however inexplicable such payments may appear? Or did it extend beyond that outer circle, and contaminate senior figures in the Game in Scotland. The contamination does not relate solely to payments from Rangers’offshore trust, but more subtly perhaps, the behaviour of individuals in positions of influence.

We know that Rangers’ Executive Chairman JohnMcClelland was an SPL Board member during the startling ramp up of EBT use from 2003 to 2005, and was himself a beneficiary of the scheme.

We know that Rangers’ Chief Executive Martin Bain was an SPL Board member 2008 to 2011, coinciding with the receipt by Rangers of the HMRC assessments on the EBT scheme, of which he was himself a beneficiary.

We know that current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie was simultaneously an SFA Director and Executive Director and Company Secretary of Rangers, and was a beneficiary of the scheme.

These parallel functions of course present a profound conflict of interest for each man, at once implementing a scam on the Game to disguise a fraud on the Revenue, while owing specific legal duties of care to the Game being scammed.

So far, so shabby.

Thomson’s tweets yesterday indicate a doubt on the part of a ‘senior Hampden source’ that Rangers were eligible to hold a Club Licence last season, thus disqualifying them from participating in European competition, and perhaps Scottish Football too. Is this doubt grounded in a retrospective review of the licence qualifying criteria given what has emerged recently? Or was there a ‘blind eye’ turned by the SFA’s Licensing Committee to information in the public domain at the time of the Licence application? In this respect the ‘Wee Tax Case’ represented a fundamental failure against at least one Licence criterion.

The proposals to the SFL clubs this week make it plain that should the SFA conclude the outstanding Disciplinary issues against Rangers with either suspension or expulsion of Rangers from the SFA(perhaps the only sanctions remaining available to the SFA following Lord Glennie’s Judicial Review) that the Game will face ‘financial meltdown’.

Concurrently, the SPL has adjudged Rangers to have a prima facie case to answer in respect of SPL rule breaches on player registration, the outcome of which will confirm that the club fielded ineligible players in upwards of 400 SPL matches. The only possible disciplinary outcome given such a sustained breach of SPL rules, corrupting the completion as it did from its inception in 1999 to 2011, is expulsion from theSPL.

As a consequence, the SFA, as the authority responsible for implementing FIFA’s Rules on the Registration of Players, will be required to act on these breaches of FIFA rules. Again, expulsion for what amounts to Championship fixing is inevitable.

Curiously, the SFL, this week asking its members to vote to admit the Sevco Rangers club into their top tier, has the same issue given that its League Cup competition featured dozens of ineligible Rangers players through the years, and further claims by Hugh Adam that its‘Premier Division’ competition during the 1990s was similarly bent through the use of ‘off the books’ payments to players by Rangers.

The scale of it all is breath-taking and were the rules of the Game to be applied, Rangers FC would be expelled from each Governing body in turn, before we even consider the extraordinary breaches of faith and duties by co-serving Directors.

But according to the SFL/SFA/SPL circular to clubs, “Rangers Terminated or Suspended’ will cause “Financial Meltdown”.

To avoid this meltdown, it is proposed by the Executives of the combined SFL/SFA/SPL that the rules of the Game are not applied to Rangers, and that the clubs effectively rewrite the rule book to permit what remains of the club to compete at the top of the SFL.

In effect, according to the Governing Bodies,the Rules of the Game CANNOT be applied to Rangers or the Game’s finances will‘meltdown’.

The corollary question this raises is: For how long have the Governing bodies been so unable to apply the Rules of the Game to Rangers? Is this a new epiphany, or a longer standing recognition?

When Rangers submitted their allegedly ineligible application for a Club Licence in 2011, did the SFA recognise that Rangers failing to participate in Europe would cause the club to fail, as it subsequently did? Were the Rules ignored to avoid ‘financial meltdown’ then?

How far did the toxin spread?

Did this recognition extend back to the period following the disintegration of Murray International, hitherto Rangers’ source of continuing funding? Was the season of ‘Honest Mistakes’ some absurd, dutiful reaction to the recognition that should Rangers fail, Scottish Football would melt down?

Was the ineligible status of so many of Rangers’ first team players noticed prior to the SPL’s Inquiry commencing on 5th March? Was it noticed in an Audit as part of the SFA’s Club Licensing process some years ago? Was it noticed by the recent SFA Chief Executive Gordon Smith, who as an Agent had represented players on Rangers’ books through his Directorship of Prostar Management and other Agencies?

Beyond the duplicity of Ogilvie, McClelland and Bain, were Rangers’ irregular practices known to others at the SFA and SPL,others who chose not to address the matter, thus further contaminated the Governing Bodies with the Rangers toxin?

It is heartening that the Liquidators of Rangers plc will be instructed to examine all of the circumstances surrounding the failure of Rangers as a corporate entity. Equally, perhaps the detail contained in the Tax Tribunal judgement will reveal further connections,hitherto unknown.

What is likely to remain hidden from view though, is the full extent to which key influencers at the Governing Bodies were aware of Rangers’ conduct and circumstances, and how this affected their behaviour and their decision making in applying the rules of the Game to that club.

What we can say with certainty now though is that the people holding office at the Governing Bodies are unable or unwilling to apply the Rules of the Game to Rangers, despite the breaches being fundamentally and profoundly corrupt. The SFA and SPL, despite having outstanding disciplinary cases against Rangers that will, in all other circumstances see the club expelled from the Game, are intent to delete the cases provided the SFL clubs accept the Sevco Rangers into the SFL’s top division.

The Rules of the Game cannot be applied to Rangers.

When the rules cannot be applied, the Game itself is broken, and we can say now with some certainty that the Rangers toxin has spread beyond the club, its former employees and Directors of the Governing Bodies, and contaminated the very Game itself. The Office Bearers of the SFA,whose FIFA mandate requires them to “protect and foster the Game” in Scotland,and “protect it from abuses”, have contrived to do the contrary, to the point where the Game is stricken.

It is for this reason that a thorough clear out of the Office Bearers in the Governing Bodies is now a prerequisite to the Game recovering from the poison inflicted upon it by Rangers. The dissolution of the Governing Bodies is perhaps appropriate.

Clear your desk Gentlemen, the bus to ignominy departs shortly.


The position that the SFA and then SPL found themselves in is perfectly clear from the foregoing. Desperately keen for commercial reasons to hold onto the “baw” they changed the rules, but never took ownership of the baw from the owner and so are still beholden to him.

Hence the blog title “We Are Going To Need Another Baw “ because the one currently in play is burst, stuffed with £14M worth of share vouchers.

What was done in 2012 was understandably commercially necessary, but the price to be paid was twofold:

  1. Not just to the integrity of our game then but the ongoing price now, where all energies are directed at continuing to pretend that the rules are followed without fear of favour.
  2. The idea that the Scottish game cannot survive without a “ Rangers”  is one that most folk would accept but the danger arising, which is unacceptable, is that because of it “Rangers” think they can do as they please as a result which requires rules to be reinforced. And seen to be reinforced.

They clearly aren’t under the SFA’s own rule enforcing process called the Judicial Panel Protocol  https://www.sfm.scot/jpp-perverting-justice/   not to mention Club Licensing processes that have so far manged to avoid the scrutiny that, had Resolution 12 been acted upon in 2013,  would have resulted in changes that would protect the game from all those who think it is still their baw.

The general perception of supporters is that lessons have not been learned from past behaviour.

Until there is evidence that they have, for example: the Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal investigating at snail’s pace the process followed in 2011 that allowed a UEFA licence to be granted to Rangers FC without question, coming to conclusion or providing reasons why it cannot by the spring, the perception will continue to be   “Its all about Rangers”  followed by what is the point?.

Is it not about time now that the fear that drove thinking in 2012 was faced and recognised by all clubs as unfounded and a new integrity filled baw was used?

What is there to fear now from restoring integrity to its rightful place, unless of course you were party to the thinking that kicked the integrity of our game to death in 2012 and are still in a position of influence?

1434 COMMENTS

1 2 3 21
 

  1. upthehoops 17th December 2018 at 15:2

    '…..John I have DM'd you.'

    _____________________________

    yes, uth, thank you. I have just this minute sent a follow-up response to your helpful suggestion.

    View Comment

  2. easyJambo 17th December 2018 at 19:36
    King is not required to make an offer until 25 January, and it will be up to four weeks after that before we find out if the offer is unconditional (hits the 50% threshold).
    ……………….
    Could we then see an Ally McCoist type rant of a “Who are these people”
    how dare they sell their shares, and the smsm with full articles to let the ibrox fan’s know who to add to their band list?
    …………..
    Speaking of shares. Did Charles Green ever keep his promise?
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1075096201656184832?p=v

    View Comment

  3. Does anybody know how many work permits for foreign players are currently issued to players in Scottish football ? I can find the rules but not the numbers . I remember that there used to be a finite number (10 ?) but think this might have changed .

    View Comment

  4. Due to my wife’s serious illness I have been unable to keep up over the last 5 weeks. Thankfully now that she’s home recovering, between running up n down the stairs as an attentive husband is required to do, I am now starting to catch up with events.

    Have I missed anything?

    Excellent post as normal Auldheid.

    View Comment

  5. Joes 11.

    Glad you liked it. The original CQN post of 2012 well stands the test of time. I just thought it deserved remembering.

    I noticed in looking through comments last night that someone (apologies I never wrote down the name) asked if Celtic had responded in writing to the Res12  questions put to them at the AGM.

    The answer is so far NO but thanks for reminding me to add to the list of matters to be raised with them.

    One being the point of this blog: the JPDT and SFA/SPFL must reach a conclusion and in its own best interests by ST renewal time or it is asking supporters to pay for a game that all evidence points to being   ungovernable.

    Its what happens when principles and values get sacrificed for commercial expediency. 

    View Comment

  6. Great post by Auldheid.
    …………….
    Only match-fixing would have been more serious offence than the practices at Rangers.
    Allan’s parting shot in the 100 page report was reserved for fans who questioned the independence of the panel.
    He said no one from the SFA tried to influence the outcome and had they done so it would have been “scandalous, corrupt and improper”
    May 12, 2012.
    I don’t think i ever read that report.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1075143031135854594?p=v

    View Comment

  7. Nice one Auldheid.

    But, I feel I need to demur, re:

    "What is there to fear now from restoring integrity to its rightful place…"

     

    I'm thinking that there has been a distinct lack of integrity in Scottish football – or specifically within the SFA – at any time since the 19th Century.

    It's just that the scale of the cheating, the monetary values involved and the accessibility to alternative sports news sources has changed so dramatically in the last decade or more.

    I really don't think anyone snoozing at Hampden would recognise integrity if it came up to them and placed a white feather in their blazer button hole.

    IMO.

     

     

    View Comment

  8. paddy malarkey 18th December 2018 at 19:55
    ……………..
    I’m at a loss, i have had a look and asked a few questions, so hope i can get back to you.
    Maybe you will get your answer from someone before i find anything.

    View Comment

  9. The new blog suggests 'Rangers' can do what they like, and get away with it. I don't think that is too far off the mark as the evidence of the last six years suggests. It is clear no-one in the media will fly the flag for integrity to be upheld, which is actually quite incredible when you think about it. 

    View Comment

  10. Cluster One 18th December 2018 at 21:38

    Only match-fixing would have been more serious offence than the practices at Rangers.
    Allan’s parting shot in the 100 page report was reserved for fans who questioned the independence of the panel.
    He said no one from the SFA tried to influence the outcome and had they done so it would have been “scandalous, corrupt and improper”
    May 12, 2012.
    I don’t think i ever read that report.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1075143031135854594?p=v

    ===================================

    Don't exaggerate. It was only 63 pages long. mail

    If you want to read the full report, then I still have a copy.

    View Comment

  11. easyJambo 19th December 2018 at 00:13 If you want to read the full report, then I still have a copy. …………….. Yes please. As the festive season will soon be upon us, i will have some free time on my hands.Nothing like a good read a cup of tea and a mince pie.yes

    View Comment

  12. Thanks Auldheid for a blog that merits a wider audience than SFM.

     

    Like you I can see much of what was done was driven (or hidden) by fears about the commercial impact to our game if the blue pound was suddenly lost.

     

    6 or 7 years on we can see that many of the people who engineered the fix are still in place or have been replaced by like for like placements.

    There also seems no obvious appetite from either the club chairmen or the administrations who purportedly serve them, (and us as the real stakeholders) to look back on what they did and how they did it.

    They are all complicit in where we are today have moved on and like conspirators are covering each others backs, hence the deep seated lack of enthusiasm for the Celtic shareholders resolution 12 and the lack of any desire to revisit what happened during their brief period of mayhem.

    Its not just the administrators and chairmen who don't want to revisit what happened and the very meaningful legacy issues that have been left in our game.

    Too many fans can't be bothered and care more about next weeks games and the coming transfer window and other stuff they are fed by the equally complicit Scottish msm.

    They have reverted to their traditional two club focus with an inherent blue bias and an invented status for the new club which Charlie created to fulfil the fixture card in 2012.

    We might shake our heads and say it was ever thus in Scotland but deep down everyone knows there is another blue financial time-bomb ticking away and waiting its time.

     

    History has a habit of repeating itself.

    View Comment

  13. Another good blog from Auldheid, and well worth revisiting what was being said back then, the following is an example from the blog:

     

    …“Rangers Terminated or Suspended’ will cause “Financial Meltdown”.

     

    The idea being pushed by the blazers was that Scottish football, and by that they meant the top tier, wouldn't survive without a Rangers. Well a Rangers went missing from the top tier for no less than four years, yet strangely enough, financially at least, Scottish football got stronger during that period than it had been for many a long year, with, now, the only factor pulling the overall financial picture of our game downwards is…well, nothing other than TRFC, the replacement for that club whose loss would cause that supposed 'Financial Meltdown'.

     

    As before, they are making a good attempt at sucking the lifeblood from our game.

    View Comment

  14. Are the terms and conditions regarding loanees up to the participating clubs or are there general rules laid down by the SPFL?

    The reason I ask:

    Hearts signed Irish player Bobby Burns in the summer. He almost immediately went out on loan to Livingston where he has been an integral part of Livvy’s success this season.

    When Hearts played (sorry, capitulated) against Livvy on Friday, Burns was barred from playing. Pretty standard conditions of any loan.

    Yet Hearts played rangers on Tuesday in the reserve league and Burns played for Hearts in this game. Is this customary?

    Regarding the loan, what would have happened had Burns got injured?

    HS

    View Comment

  15. Cluster One 19th December 2018 at 06:50

    easyJambo 19th December 2018 at 00:13 If you want to read the full report, then I still have a copy. …………….. Yes please. As the festive season will soon be upon us, i will have some free time on my hands.Nothing like a good read a cup of tea and a mince pie.yes

    ======================================

    You have a DM

    View Comment

  16. Higgy's Shoes 19th December 2018 at 11:25

    Are the terms and conditions regarding loanees up to the participating clubs or are there general rules laid down by the SPFL?

    The reason I ask:

    Hearts signed Irish player Bobby Burns in the summer. He almost immediately went out on loan to Livingston where he has been an integral part of Livvy’s success this season.

    When Hearts played (sorry, capitulated) against Livvy on Friday, Burns was barred from playing. Pretty standard conditions of any loan.

    Yet Hearts played rangers on Tuesday in the reserve league and Burns played for Hearts in this game. Is this customary?

    Regarding the loan, what would have happened had Burns got injured?

    =================================

    Specific terms will agreed between the clubs, but they must still comply with SPFL and SFA rules on temporary transfers (loan agreements).

    Bobby Burns went to Livingston on a Development Loan. Those loans have special (SPFL) provisions which allow players to play with another club, but also to play with their own club in Reserve or Club Academy Scotland fixtures. 

    Development Loans can be used for players up to age 23. Burns only turned 19 in the last couple of months. Most commonly they are used to give youth players the opportunity to play regular competitive games against adult players with lower league clubs. Most of the receiving clubs are part time so may only train two or three evenings a week. That means that the players can train with their own clubs during the week and are thus available to play in Reserve matches that are scheduled on Monday afternoons.

    Livingston is obviously a full time club so Burns trains with them during the week, but as he couldn't play in the weekend's game Monday's reserve game against Rangers was an ideal opportunity for him to maintain his fitness and to keep some familiarity with his Hearts team mates.

    Had he been injured then both clubs would just have to deal with it. It's little different for players who are injured playing for their countries. If it is a serious and long term injury, then the loan may be terminated, in accordance with the terms of the loan agreement.

    Edit: I was at the Reserve game at the Oriam which, for the record, Hearts won.

    View Comment

  17. From Auldheid's blog :  "What is there to fear now from restoring integrity to its rightful place, unless of course you were party to the thinking that kicked the integrity of our game to death in 2012 and are still in a position of influence?"

    It seems clear enough to me that

    some people are afraid of being prosecuted in the criminal courts for actual crime, as opposed to having their actions looked at by a 'sports' court such as the CAS, (which has no powers to jail people!)

    and that some people currently in office in the SFA and SPFL who may themselves be as pure as the driven snow and not implicated directly in any illegal syphoning off of monies or such like, are perhaps a wee bit reluctant to blow the whistle that might result in some of their former colleagues and associates in Football governance facing serious charges in the busiest court in western Europe.

    But, of course, that 'reluctance' is not at all acceptable. The bad guys have to be named, and called to account. Failure to do so is tantamount to complicity in their alleged wrongdoing- if the wrongdoing is proved.

    At present, the alleged wrongdoing is not even being seriously examined.

    In the words of Bloom's 'Martha', 'my patience are exhausted' – and I can see my way forward to asking the police to investigate a crime. 

    There has been a little too much faffing about, for me. Too much contempt for the idea of 'sporting integrity' , when a 6 year old club is treated as being an ancient club with a long history. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    View Comment

  18. The DR / Trinity Mirror Group, [per Andy Muirhead], trying to develop an online strategy before the printers stop for good?

    Might be the same churnalists behind 'Football_Scot' doing the same copy/pasting?

    At least there is an implied acceptance of how fans disregard the print media: there is no obvious indication on this Twitter account that it's SMSM backed.

     

    View Comment

  19. In among all the festive hoo-ha and with games coming thick and fast, I had almost forgotten TRFC Ltd were up in front of the SFA today for their principal hearing re innuendo directed toward Willie Collum…. 

    View Comment

  20. Great blog Auldheid, when you see again in black and white the level of cheating and the people involved in that club and the power they held in our game it makes me sick. No punishment to this day for the cheating, time goes on and will they ever be brought to task? Doubtful if you ask me. The myth of the newco being the oldco seems to be the proirity of our SFA and smsm anything else gets completely ignored. The SC verdict was the prove of players being paid illegally , which meant players being registered incorrectly at the SFA. This to date has been ignored, so what will ever be addressed concerning the cheating by RFC ? They say cheats never win, well……..not only did they cheat they got well paid for doing it. Our game is still corrupt.

     

    View Comment

  21. Many posts on here quote Alex Thomson of C4 and I remember some good articles by him at the time of liquidation. Does anyone know why he did not follow the goings on up and appears to have lost interest. 

    View Comment

  22. Allyjambo 19th December 2018 at 15:03 

    OttoKaiser 19th December 2018 at 14:59

    If you listen hard enough, you'll hear the slapping of a wrist

    ===============

    Whose wrist AJ?

    …Maxwell or McRae?

    wink

    A slap, followed by the exclamation: "WATP!".

    Hearing closed.

    View Comment

  23. Otto Kaiser

    I looked at the SPFL site and the only disciplinary hearing mentioned for today is to do with some transgression wrt Falkirk's management team . Sorry , can't do link on phone .

    View Comment

  24. I read somewhere that Carlos Peña may play for TRFC tonight/soon . As he has already played for two clubs this year , would he not have to wait until next year ?

    View Comment

  25. Ballyargus 19th December 2018 at 15:36
    7 0 Rate This

    Many posts on here quote Alex Thomson of C4 and I remember some good articles by him at the time of liquidation. Does anyone know why he did not follow the goings on up and appears to have lost interest.
    ……………..
    I’m sure i read, and happy to be corrected Mr Thomson was covering a war or conflict. So i assume he had more pressing duties.
    And i bet when the smsm hear his name they shudder with fear

    View Comment

  26. paddy malarkey 19th December 2018 at 17:45
    2 1 Rate This

    Otto Kaiser

    I looked at the SPFL site and the only disciplinary hearing mentioned for today is to do with some transgression wrt Falkirk’s management team . Sorry , can’t do link on phone
    ……………

    I have written down Disciplinary charges hearing Dec 19

    View Comment

  27. paddy malarkey 19th December 2018 at 18:27
    1 0 Rate This

    I read somewhere that Carlos Peña may play for TRFC tonight/soon . As he has already played for two clubs this year , would he not have to wait until next year ?
    ………………
    I don’t think he will ever play for them again.
    When the smsm run with a headline.
    Gerrard’s warning.
    Mexican duds could wreck my rangers dream team.

    View Comment

  28. Regards Dundee United any one know if the new owner has wealth off the radar 😃 Surely the rangers must be shocked he didn’t invest in the most successful,bestes , pure dead brilliant club in the world.

    View Comment

  29. OttoKaiser: Paddy Malarkey: Cluster One

    From the SFA Website

     

    Notice of Complaint | Rangers FC

    Wednesday 28 November 2018

    Alleged Party in Breach: Rangers FC

    Date: Between 8 and 16 November 2018

    Disciplinary Rules allegedly breached:  (Edited out for brevity)

    Principal hearing date: Wednesday 19 December 2018

     

     

    View Comment

  30. Ballyargus 19th December 2018 at 15:36
    14 0 Rate This

    Many posts on here quote Alex Thomson of C4 and I remember some good articles by him at the time of liquidation. Does anyone know why he did not follow the goings on up and appears to have lost interest.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    He still has an eye on things.
    alex thomson @alextomo
    Can’t get bigger than cheating your way to trophies pal.
    12:26 pm – 19 Dec 2018

    View Comment

  31. Things are a bit quiet now so I hope you’ll forgive a (mildly) off topic reply.

    I’m old enough to remember both the the Frido and the Wembley (the latter of which was far superior) but should have been as it cost around a shilling more.

    That said, as AH points out, both were easily burst and although common folklore reckoned they could be fixed with a weld by a red hot poker, in my experience it never worked and only made the hole bigger. 

    Going a bit more off topic, my oldest sister had a friend called Frieda, (not Freda), and  to avoid any mis spelling of her name she was always known as Frieda as in football.  Happy days. 

    View Comment

  32. slimjim 20th December 2018 at 07:06 cluster one 22.27. "cant get bigger than cheating your way to trophies pal" Really Alex?

    _______________-

     

    The (now) old sexual abuse deflection. Never a good look for someone who tries to look like the 'reasonable bear'. Time you, and others, learned about context, and within the context of football within Scottish football, your old club's massive cheating is undoubtedly the biggest and most newsworthy disgrace ever to hit the Scottish game.

     

    Sexual abuse of children is a massive blight on society as a whole, and, sadly, is not confined to football. It took society a ridiculously long time to fully recognise the problem and make it possible for victims to some out and talk about it. No supporters of any club should feel secure to criticise those clubs who have had sexual abuse of young boys come to light, for there is no way of knowing it never happened at their own, such was the bygone nature of society and it's inability to accept that sexual abuse of children was happening within it's midst.

     

    To disrespect the victims by using it in a point scoring exercise is worse than disgusting.

    View Comment

  33. SLIM JIM

    If you are looking for the biggest scandal in Scottish football, read Judge Irvine Smith's findings re the Ibrox disaster, then see where you stand.

     

    View Comment

  34. slimjim 20th December 2018 at 07:06

    cluster one 22.27.

    "cant get bigger than cheating your way to trophies pal"

    Really Alex?

     


    Here's a bloody perspective slimjim and I wish I had a red card to award to you for the least appropriate posting I think I have ever read on this site.

     

    Paedophilia is not a football issue or an appropriate basis for a terracing chant. 

    It is an endemic societal issue with complex and deep roots that seeks and finds opportunities and where victims should be listened to and helped.

    That Scottish football was an easy place for paedophiles to exist is deeply disturbing but not surprising in hindsight given the collective naivety that existed in clubs, administrators and throughout society.

    The clubs, football at large and society did not know how to listen, respond or deal with it and many wrong decisions were made across the board from schools to sports clubs to children's homes.

     

    Celtic were not the only club or institution infiltrated and their response like all the others was totally inadequate and failed the victims.

    Nobody on here would disagree with that.

     

    Society has thankfully moved on and is hopefully in a better place with more awareness and controls like screening and disclosure.

     

    There was never a Celtic FC corporate strategy of seeing and using paedophilia as a route towards success on the field.

     

    That is a major difference and highlights not just the irrelevance of your post but also the sheer inappropriateness of the direction you are trying to steer the debate . 

     

     

    This is a football site and yes football is a business.

     

    In Scotland one club is currently sitting with a bank of trophies won by a club/business which is in a box in an accountants in Glasgow waiting to be liquidated.

    The EBT influenced trophies should in my opinion be reallocated to the rightful winners having been won under a Murray micro-managed regime where from the very top down there was a strategy of cheating.

    Cheating the tax man by hiding information, cheating the SFA by not complying with the rules and cheating all their fellow members.

    This is not opinion but from sworn testimonies from the various court cases that have entertained us all.

     

    Perspective is required at times and yes the Rangers EBT years may or may not be the biggest scandal ever to hit Scottish football but its part the biggest issue we can talk about today and like many other scandals over the years has again been mismanaged by all.

     

     

    View Comment

  35. ah yes Twitter that well known bastion of considered debate and reasoned opinion….

    That there were people ready to pounce on Alex Thomson with child abuse issues is unsurprising. That there are people ready and willing to use the victims of these heinous crimes to further supposes football rivalry stinks. 

    And I include you in the criticism SJ. To late to start deflecting. There was no need to bring that onto SFM 

    View Comment

  36. A leading and respected journalist makes a comment about Rangers' cheating. Does anybody deny that cheating? Does anybody try to suggest it wasn't as bad as Alex Thomson suggests? Does anybody take any sort of issue with what Alex Thomson said?

     

    No.

     

    Instead they throw aspersions at another club over something unrelated to the matter at hand.

     

    Says a lot more about the truth and accuracy of what Alex Thomson said than anything we might add. It's as though they've all accepted that their club did cheat to the level he described, and have stopped trying to defend Rangers over it – with deflection. of a most horrible kind, their only succour!

    View Comment

  37. Dr Mo 20th December 2018 at 08:39 slimjim 20th December 2018 at 07:06 cluster one 22.27. "cant get bigger than cheating your way to trophies pal" Really Alex?


     

    I doubt very much that Alex Thomson was 'rowing back' on any comparison, instead he was trying to explain his tweet to a bunch of hard of thinking bigots. Quite clearly, he was not comparing Rangers cheating to any other crime, just reiterating the seriousness of that cheating in a sporting sense.

     

    Obviously, it could be said that the hatred and bigotry that leads to much violence within Scottish football, or wife battering after particular matches, is also more serious than Rangers cheating. Did any of those challenging him on Twitter raise that?

    View Comment

  38. Chris McLaughlin‏Verified account @BBCchrismclaug

    #Rangers found guilty on 2 of 5 SFA charges relating to criticism of ref Willie Collum. Total fine of £6000. Cleared on charge of bringing game into disrepute.

     

    Outcome:

    Charge 1 – Breach of Disciplinary Rule 72: Proved. £5000 fine.

    Charge 2 – Breach of Disciplinary Rule 71: Not Proved.

    Charge 3 – Breach of Disciplinary Rule 77: Proved. £1000 fine.

    Charge 4 – Breach of Disciplinary Rule 1: Not Proved.

    Charge 5 – Withdrawn.

    View Comment

  39. slimjim 20th December 2018 at 07:06

    '…three convictions for child abuse and yet Alex describes EBTs as the biggest scandal in Scottish football history.'

    _______________

    what an utterly stupidly unbalanced , completely irrelevant, and deeply poisonous attitude of mind you must have, slimjim!

    I cannot accept that such an outpouring of vile bile is attributable to a mere glass or two too many.

    get a grip of yourself, not for our sake, but your own! 

    there's an almighty difference between some sad sicko  junior 'employees'  being convicted of hideous crimes, and the Chairman and majority shareholder of a plc business being guilty of football and tax cheating!

    God Almighty! What were you thinking of in making such a post? 

    View Comment

  40.  Allyjambo 20th December 2018 at 10:19

    '…It's as though they've all accepted that their club did cheat to the level he described, and have stopped trying to defend Rangers over it – with deflection.'

    _______________________

    Of course they know the truth!

    Jim Traynor of no less a publication than the DR , and quondam host[ whose fees were paid by us]  of a BBC radio Scotland programme ,proclaimed it in banner headlines!

    But like the Nazis who knew damn fine what they were about and lied and lied and lied in order to try to profit from untruth, they simply have to keep lying until their Nuremberg day. 

    Which will come, beyond a peradventure, when the whole pack of lies will be exposed as will be the shoddy, shabby failure of Scottish Football governance in

    failing to uphold Integrity,

    in capitulating to  megalomaniac,

    in allowing a very suspect cross-over of personnel between a club and the governance body,

    in a disastrously inefficient system of checking the financial statements of a club, and so on and on….

    There is no hiding place. Things were done, or not done. The record is there for all to see.

    Some people will have to be prosecuted.

    End of.

     

     

     

    View Comment

  41. To be clear this is what Alex Thompson tweeted.

    I am in no way comparing EBTs with a paedophile ring. Apologies to anyone who felt I was. Merely referring to the size and scale of EBTs which is unsurpassed.

    He has not apologized for his tweet re EBT's or admiited to being in the wrong.

    He probably still believes it is the biggest scandal in Scottish Football.

    He is apologizing to anyone who was daft enough to decide to willingly conflate the two issues of EBTs and paedophiles.

     

     

    View Comment

  42. slimjim 20th December 2018 at 11:36 4  dom 16 09.50. No deflecting at all. Alex Thompson has apologized for his original tweet and made his position clear. I apologized for the subject matter in my OP. This site is however about the governance of Scottish football and the number one priority of any Governing body is to protect those who participate in it by offering a safe and secure environment at all times.

    __________________

     

    How right you are, you haven't deflected at all. Quite the opposite, really, for you've merely highlighted the inability of supporters of both Rangers to defend the cheating their original club carried out.

     

    Not gonna work, is it?

    View Comment

  43. I have noticed this more and more.

    Any time Rangers are mentioned in what a section of their support sees as a derogatory manner, for example reporting that they were found guilty by the SFA and fined, the immediate response is what about what happened at Celtic Boys' Club.

    It is the ultimate disgraceful deflection, and it is happening on a worryingly frequent basis. 

    It is "point scoring" no matter what anyone says. It is even done when the thing being discussed has nothing to do with anyone other than Rangers. 

    Lets be honest, people who are convicted of this sort of thing, whether they be involved in football, teaching, religion, youth organisation or whatever should be punished to the maximum extent the law is capable.

    However to use it as a way to try to defend (or deflect away from) a football club's actions is just wrong. People who do it should have a really good think about whether it really is appropriate. 

    View Comment

  44. slimjim 20th December 2018 at 11:36 4 94 Rate This dom 16 09.50. No deflecting at all. Alex Thompson has apologized for his original tweet and made his position clear. I apologized for the subject matter in my OP. This site is however about the governance of Scottish football and the number one priority of any Governing body is to protect those who participate in it by offering a safe and secure environment at all times.

    very cute shift SJ. So what is the governing body doing about all this? Ah yes nothing as their procedures have been shown to be demonstrably inadequate and have been so for decades. 

    That you seem to want to point the finger at one youth organisation that had links to Celtic FC and ignore the ample evidence of similar abuse across football tells it’s own story. 

    View Comment

  45. Some might like to portray Scottish kids as at risk form no other sources than their bete noire…. this is clearly not the case based on the current police "Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry", covering I think 86 institutions. Still, they Kafflicks eh?

    View Comment

  46. so what’s happened that we have descended into this nonsense?

    my pride in sfm was that we managed to avoid the whataboutery most of the time. It’s being sorely tested today. 

    View Comment

  47. £6,000 fine?

    https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/daniel-candeias/

    1. "It defies belief that this same referee, who got it so blatantly wrong last Saturday, is awarded one of the biggest matches in Scottish football this weekend"

    2. "Furthermore, it is understood that a number of people within the Scottish FA are in no doubt Mr Collum’s judgment was flawed and Rangers shall also now be submitting a formal complaint about the performance of this referee"

    3. "This is by no means the first time errors of judgment have been made in matches involving this official and clearly there is an underlying issue which requires to be addressed".

    1. This referee should be demoted.
    2. A number of his bosses in the SFA are not pleased with him and have told us so.
    3. He is systematically biased against us, i.e. corrupt.

    Every club in the SPFL should be demanding that this be an Agenda item for the next Board meetings of their representatives, firstly because an explicit accusation of corruption against a referee has consequences for all Premiership clubs and secondly to clarify who the, "number of people within the SFA", are and whether or not they have influenced this decision.

     

    View Comment

  48. torrejohnbhoy

    Slim Jim.

    Probably the most disgraceful post published in the history of both the RTC & SFM site.

    Hopefully we'll never see you on here again.

     

    Actually it was the joint most disgraceful post ever posted here. "Dr Mo" posted exactly the same stuff yesterday and it was removed by mods. "Coincidentally", SJ took up the baton and ran with it.

    For the avoidance of doubt, the distressing and criminal assaults on children that have been the subject of news stories are NOT taboo subjects on here. Celtic have found themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the middle of the controversy, but fans of all clubs here have dealt with the situation sensitively on the basis (I assume) that paedophilia should not be weaponised for the purposes of political or partisan point-scoring, and that the victims of such crimes should not be exploited for those purposes.

    Both SJ and Dr Mo have however been guilty of exactly that, colluding to shift one discussion off at an oblique angle to arrive at a predetermined destination. They have both had posting rights suspended and neither will be restored until the blog receives an apology.

    We tolerate most things on here, but we expect higher standards than that from members of our community. If those standards can't be met, it's time to get back to a place where the bar is comfortably low enough.

    View Comment

  49. Trisidium 20th December 2018 at 18:01

    Could you prevail upon SJ and Dr Mo to show us their redacted correspondence with Police Scotland , where they brought their proof in this matter to the attention of  PS , and any replies they received ? They will have proof and , as concerned citizens , will have reported it , won't they ? To me , its the smell of fear  TRFC support that reckons that this is the only way to stop CFC beating their "world records" – title stripping anyone ?

    View Comment
1 2 3 21
 

Comments are closed.