Two wrongs and a right – The Scottish Football Monitor

Two wrongs and a right

The John James blog has of late thrown up many hooks to hang our theories on and provided much food for thought on the Rangers issue.

His casual invective against individuals, particularly Dave King, and often members of the Bench is not particularly SFM-like in its approach, but despite the industrial nature of much of the discourse, the value of his work cannot be denied.

On the subject of revisiting LNS, I find myself in agreement with his conclusions. His argument about Celtic’s attitude to Resolution 12 is to my mind compelling insofar as it serves as a barometer for Celtic’s disposition towards rocking the SPL/SFA boat. Like him, I cannot see any real evidence, (despite the recent statement by the club) that they are disposed to move in the direction of a revisited LNS (although it should be noted that besides Celtic there are another 40 clubs who may have an opinion on this).

His conclusions though should not be confused with his opinion on the rights and wrongs of LNS. Like most of us, he appears to be of the opinion that LNS was seriously flawed on multiple counts.

I saw Bill McMurdo’s remarks too in reference to the same topic. He alleges that the whole SFA house of cards would come down if information he has at his fingertips, information that off-book payments in Scottish football was much more widespread that the RFC EBTs, was made public.

UnderTableIf what he says is true, and he has evidence, he should be expanding on the innuendo.

If he chooses not to, then he is as complicit as those he accuses.

In any event, to say that no action should be taken because others have done it is not the same as saying that no action WILL be taken.

If he means the former, then he is wrong. By the logic of that argument it follows that burglars for example should not be prosecuted because other people burgle houses but didn’t get caught.

I suspect he knows himself that by any objective standard, this view is in error, because when he is called out on it, he reverts to ad hominem attacks on those who called him on it. No defence, just withering, dismissive sarcasm – in the manner of former pundit Jim Traynor when he refers to those who speak of sporting integrity.

If he means the latter, then he should do what he can do prevent it and make his information public. I believe he knows that the £3 note fraternity runs through Scottish football like lettering on a stick of seaside rock, but I suspect he doesn’t actually have evidence.

If there is evidence, then McMurdo is in a unique position to get it out in the open and make life difficult for those he alleges are corrupt.

Then we should go back in time as far as possible to investigate those who participated in “black money” schemes, whether they are EBTs, other forms of tax dodge, or just money in a brown paper bag.

I do not believe that any of us participating in the Scottish Football Monitor would fear exposure of any of our clubs. I think we all know that this is far more important than club loyalties.

If McMurdo’s information is correct, then we also have the opportunity to show that the clamour for revisiting LNS is not an anti-Rangers with-hunt. Instead of reconvening LNS, let’s have Bill’s info, and constitute a wider enquiry. If the info was made public, and it will now be difficult for him to put his genie back into the bottle, could the SFA and the clubs resist the pressure for such an enquiry?

handsMaybe McMurdo’s intervention/revelation may yet be seen as a seminal moment in the campaign to rid ourselves of corruption and incompetence in football.

Our position has always been clear. Corruption is counter to sporting integrity. Therefore it must be rooted out.

John James and Merlin are probably correct in that the clubs will seek to thwart any move for a new enquiry; and there could easily have been a deal done with King last week.

However there was also a deal done with Charles Green about the new club being parachuted into the SPL. How did that one turn out?

Big Pink

Big Pink

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

1,703 Comments
  1. dom16

    dom16


    Good piece in today’s guardian on what happens to young footballers. How a sport can discard so many is beyond me (though I suspect the income generated from youth football does help!)
    http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jan/21/academy-graduates-arsenal-illusion-flawed-system

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  2. goosygoosy


    Any reports on the SMSM on what Mark Warburton thinks about sectarian singing?
    No??
    That`s strange
    Any reports on what Ronny Delia thinks about sectarian singing and flare throwing?
    Yes
    One incident warrants 3 days wall to wall coverage
    Must be lots and lots of truoble at Parkhead and none at Ibrox
    Maybe Celtic should send some observers to Ibrox and find out how ?

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  3. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    Meanwhile, in the real world …..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35371872

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  4. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    I’m in total agreement with Yogi wrt youth draft system – which is probably a first. The number of one-footed players in Scotland must be a phenomenon. And some of them trap the ball further than I could ever kick it .

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  5. essexbeancounter


    paddy malarkey 21st January 2016 at 4:13 pm #Meanwhile, in the real world …..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35371872
    =====================================
    So our erstwhile gardener (now retired) was not the only one who would sign any old contract without reading it…must be par for the course in the DNA of certain “sports professionals”…not to mention their “professional” advisers…..”I’m a sporting professional, I don’t have a great understanding of taxes and law.”
    How many full teams of top players could be fielded who have been “outed” in European tax courts?
    And how many in UK/Scotland?…thought so! 07

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  6. blu


    essex, are you saying that Osvaldo Giroldo Júnior could beat teams on his own, or would you need a full eleven? 

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  7. Ballyargus

    Ballyargus


    Our esteemed correspondent John Clark reminds me of that other greatly respected gentleman Jim Squires who lost his much loved daughter in the Lockerbie disaster. They both seek the truth and battle against the system.
    I fear that JC will suffer the same a JS in that he will earn the respect of us who want the truth to out but the establishment has decided otherwise.
    Suffice to say that both their efforts are greatly appreciated and JC’s comments on this site are eagerly awaited.
    Please JC don’t stop and don’t let them get you down no matter how long it takes!

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  8. upthehoops


    tayred 21st January 2016 at 8:55 am # iceman63 21st January 2016 at 1:11 am #

    =========================================
    I have my own views on how Celtic have been treated by the authorities at times in my lifetime but they are not for this forum and will not help this debate. I would like to keep this as a far wider debate regarding whether strict liability should be introduced and whether it would work. I would have no issue with it at all as long as it was absolutely watertight in terms of all clubs being treated EXACTLY the same if their fans offend against an agreed list of offences signed onto by all clubs. I said some days ago I don’t believe the Scottish football authorities or media are anywhere near ready to go down this route. As a shareholder and season card holder in my club I would be unwilling to see points deducted because the media chose to highlight an issue that they somehow chose to ignore at another ground. That is what happens right now in terms of video evidence against players and managers, some of whom are punished for offences that others are allowed to get away with. In other cases offences go unpunished simply because no cameras were present at the game and no official witnessed it happening.  When clubs are going to lose points it can’t be applied in an arbitrary manner and it certainly can’t be down to what a highlights editor or pundit chooses to make an issue of, for whatever reason. Whether it is a sad indictment on Scotland or not, those in power and those with the power to influence simply can’t be trusted with strict liability in my view.  Their past actions firmly demonstrate that to me.

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  9. Bill1903

    Bill1903


    RE previous posts about Tynecastle atmosphere

    My favourite away ground with a tremendous atmosphere when full. Hostile but never poisonous when Aberdeen are there. Indeed if a new Aberdeen ground does eventually happen I’d like 3 stands like Tynecastle with a more modern main stand.
    My second favourite away day is at Tannadice but sadly it looks like we won’t be going there in the league next season.

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  10. ernie


    It never fails to amaze me how far our clubs (and us fans?) will go to do nothing about sectarian singing.  Of all the unacceptable behaviours in our society it is the most visible and easily monitored.  There is no subtlety in it, we do not have to take one guy’s word against another or investigate the nuances of language and meaning.  It’s basic and it’s loud.  The level of excuse for not enforcing the law and for not making our clubs responsible is risible and reminds me of the seat belt/alcohol limits/no smoking debates : full of reasons to not do it whereas all it took was the will and the law to force doing it and lo, it was done.
    Arrest some transgressors, never mind the fact that you can’t arrest them all, a small proportion will do as people will respond to the threat a la drink driving.  For the clubs, forget points, just take the money, a proportion of the annual TV/league etc payout per event for a start.  It’s the only driver the clubs will respond to.  Whether the clubs will do anything about it will be entirely up to them, to disown their responsibility for the actions of their paying customers is shameful.
    I suspect that they will carry on doing nothing, the consequences are not serious enough, or at all in fact. 

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  11. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    I see someone from level5 has passed some useful information to Insidefutbol. To cut a long(but not very) story short, Wes Fotheringham is, again, the soon to be England goalie…because he’s only lost 16 goals this season, puuting him alongside, wait for it, two other Championship keepers (I’m assuming the two other clubs have used the one keeper). Fotheringham has achieved this England form playing 20 games,same number as Hibs. But wait, Falkirk’s last line of defence has lost this same number of goals in 21 games!

    Now, going by the thrust of the article, Fotheringham is a cert for International stardom, from losing only 16 goals from 20 games, so just how many wonder saves must he be having to make to make him better than the Falkirk goalie? Just how bad must the TRFC defence be to have allowed the opposition so many chances to make Fotheringham a hero?

    I know, I’m being petty, but just when is this bumming up of all things Govan going to stop? There are keepers in the English Championship facing up to veritable giants, fitter and faster, with much harder shots, than anyone in the Scottish Championship, who must be well ahead of this guy, totally unquoted, by anyone, before setting foot on the Ibrox turf. Interestingly, level5 didn’t bother (or didn’t know) to include the names of the keepers who match/better Fotheringham’s feat. Danny Rogers is the Falkirk custodian, and Mark Oxley is Hibs’, capped by England at Under 18 and Under 20 levels, and Danny Rogers was the Championship player of the month for December.

    http://www.insidefutbol.com/2016/01/21/rangers-custodian-wes-foderingham-wants-to-avoid-england-call-up-question-pressure/265446/

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  12. ianagain

    ianagain


    Did JD intimate yet another preamble? Tommorrow?

    COURT 31
    Before MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH
    Friday, 22 January 2016
    At 10 o’clock
    FOR JUDGMENT
    INTERIM HEARINGS LIST
    HC-2015-002185 Sports Direct International Plc v Rangers International Football Club Plc
     

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  13. upthehoops


    Allyjambo 21st January 2016 at 7:41 pm #
    ===============================

    I don’t think even the likes of Chris Jack would try and claim Foderingham is in line for an England call up due to his performances in the Championship. Fraser Forster required a string of very good Champions League performances just to make the England bench! Personally I think Craig Gordon is a better keeper than Forster although he hasn’t had a particularly great season.

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  14. easyJambo


    ianagain 21st January 2016 at 7:52 pm #
    ——————————————–
    According to James Doleman, tomorrow’s hearing is for Justice Smith’s “written judgement” on the contempt action.
    ===========================================
    The CoS Roll also gives us two dates for the diary next week.
    Wed 27th Jan
    Starred Motion
    between 9.00am and 9.30am
    1 P1266/15 Pet: Mash Holdings Ltd for orders under section996 re Rangers – Brodies LLP
     ===========================================
    Fri 29th Jan
    Procedural Hearing
    at 10.00am
    Summar Roll 
    1 CA196/15 Reclaiming Motion (Lord Doherty) in the cause Charles Green v Rangers International Football Club Plc
    DAC Beachcroft Scotland LLP – Anderson Strathern LLP 
      

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  15. upthehoops


    Can any of our Aberdeen contributors help me.  I noted this picture of Pittodrie in the 1950’s on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/TerraceImages/status/690260735864258560

    At the far end (Beach End) of the main stand there is a small section at right angles to the stand. I remember this still being there in the 70’s. Was it some kind of members area or just an extension to the stand?

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  16. John Clark


    Ballyargus 21st January 2016 at 5:30 pm
    ‘..Please JC don’t stop and don’t let them get you down ..’
    _________
    Thank you,Ballyargus, for your kind words- which caused the trouble and strife to look around to see if a  ‘respected gentleman’ had appeared in the kitchen.02
    There is , of course, an immeasurable gulf between the importance and significance of the shoddy actions of a Football Governance body in the matter of a club which cheated its way for a dozen years to unmerited ‘glory’, and the dirty deeds of Government in dealing with a horrendous mass murder with hugely important international ramifications.
    But there is an  element common to each case:   Truth is being denied, facts distorted.
    Happily, though, in the case of our Football Governance , the Truth is self-evident to all but the deliberately blind: a football club, like others before it, was liquidated.A new club was created. That new club is not the liquidated club, no matter what attempts are made to twist language.
    And the frightened men who bluster and protest that the two are one-and-the-same have made  an iron rod for their backs:they know that they have lost any kind of moral authority, they know that they have allowed a cuckoo into the nest-and that no other club owner or Board will hesitate to claim the same protection and rights as were falsely given to the old RFC. The bluster comes from the weakness of their position vis-a-vis their defence of the indefensible.
    The position will have to be regularised, sooner or later. It would not surprise me, indeed, if our Football Governors might actually be  hoping that the new club goes belly-up, to make it easier to clean the slate and restore honesty and dignity to our game. They wouldn’t dare try to pull the same stunt again? Would they?
    But live or die, the new club must be acknowledged to be a new club, and not RFC 1873. The sooner the better, for the sake of Scottish Football.
    Dr Swires is as a giant among men. He is sustained by the truth, against much more powerfully entrenched opposition than the Boards of a couple of groups of businessmen running small-to-medium football clubs!
    A quiet determination on our part also to insist on  truth and Integrity in sport  is easy to maintain.We know we are right.

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  17. CliffHanger


    upthehoops 21st January 2016 at 9:16 pm # Can any of our Aberdeen contributors help me.  I noted this picture of Pittodrie in the 1950’s on Twitter.
    https://twitter.com/TerraceImages/status/690260735864258560
    At the far end (Beach End) of the main stand there is a small section at right angles to the stand. I remember this still being there in the 70’s. Was it some kind of members area or just an extension to the stand?
    __________________________________________________
    If I remember correctly this was called the Wing stand.  It had its own turnstile.  My dad took me to some games there.   Was the best view of the pitch and also just as entertaining was the view down onto the Beach End. Amazing the memories that come back. 

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  18. John Clark


    upthehoops 21st January 2016 at 9:16 pm
    ‘…..I noted this picture of Pittodrie in the 1950’s on Twitter.’
    ___
    Can’t help with your query, I’m afraid, uth, but what great photos of grounds!
    I had no idea that Craven Cottage (Fulham) was so near the river, and I love the Govan stand 1935.
    And as for the fans on the roof at the Chelsea v Dynamo Moscow game in 1945! ‘Strict liability’? I don’t think so, not even for lunatic ‘health and safety’ behaviour!
    Never mind the football authorities, I sigh and pine for the ‘old days’.

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  19. AOB


    Cliffhangar.
    My first game was in the Wing Stand. Aberdeen 2 Hibernian 6.  Tears that day, rather than good memories !

    PS – does anyone know anything about the ‘Green’ etc proceedings today. Not seen any comment anywhere.

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  20. Tincks

    Tincks


    John Clark 21st January 2016 at 10:02 pm
    And as for the fans on the roof at the Chelsea v Dynamo Moscow game in 1945! ‘Strict liability’? I don’t think so, not even for lunatic ‘health and safety’ behaviour!
    ————————————————-
    JC,
    My Dad was one of those on the roof!  Along with some pals he bunked off school as the game kicked off at 2.30 on a Tuesday.  About 76,000 tickets were sold but the crowd was estimated at around 100,000.

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  21. John Clark


    Tincks 22nd January 2016 at 12:04 am
    ‘..My Dad was one of those on the roof!’
    ______
    What a wonderful  thing to recollect.
    And how it hammers home the innocence of those days when folk actually believed and trusted in ‘Football Governance’ and a clean sport.

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  22. jimbo

    jimbo


    Fans on the roof!  03
    I think my earliest memory is going to Fir Park?  with my da and seeing some young boys about my age on the pylons of the stadium lighting.  I was gobsmacked.  They probably went on to work in the furnaces of Ravenscraig.  I didn’t even like it when my father told me to go to the front of the terrace along with all the other wee boys so as I could see what was happening on the pitch.  I was very shy and reserved.

    What happened?  21  You can’t shut me up now!

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  23. Tincks

    Tincks


    And how it hammers home the innocence of those days when folk actually believed and trusted in ‘Football Governance’ and a clean sport.
    ———————————————————-
    JC,
    Never a truer word spoken.
    By the time I was a young boy in the 70’s the sad thing is that Stamford Bridge was such a poisonous atmosphere that Dad just didn’t want to take me there.
    A truly horrible National Front element was attached to the Club.  We went once and it was vile. Bananas thrown onto the pitch at black players and abuse that was beyond all reason.  I think it fair broke his heart.
    From then on we just shared our enjoyment of sport.  An honest contest with the better athlete/player or team winning fair and square was all we wanted to see.  I remember us both leaping off the sofa as the final whistle went on the Dons amazing European triumph.  The telly barely visible through the purple fug from about 30 Senior Service.
    When he died I remember being asked by a friend what was the single most important thing that Dad taught me.  My reply was that he was as honest as the day was long and that he had one over-riding principle, that if something couldn’t be gained by fair means then it wasn’t worth having, it would be of no value.
    Just typing the above has made me realise why I must be one of the few English followers of SFM. 
    Dad died just before the Russian Oligarch took over the Club.  Would he have enjoyed the wondrous players that have graced the pitch in recent years and celebrated with me the titles won?  Yes.  But would he like me have recognised that this was diminished by financial doping and that the silverware was tainted.  Yes to that as well.
    All power to SFM.  Sport really is nothing unless it really is sport.

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  24. jimbo

    jimbo


    Tincks, what a great post. 04

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  25. Big Pink


    Tincks,

    In the late 70s, a colleague and friend by the name of Mike Duggan was a big Chelsea fan.  Mike, who was very active in the TU movement and London left, was  dismayed by the right-wing elements that had attached themselves to the club.

    Through the fanzine movement and elsewhere, ably assisted I have to say by Pat Nevin (in the days when truth was important to him), Mike worked very hard to get an anti-racist message across to the fans.

    To be honest, from being a bit of a Chelsea fan myself (loved Osgood and Cooke, Webb and Harris et al) I went off them because of that, and I don’t know to what extent wee Mike’s efforts were successful. I suspect though that he would have been thrilled at the transformation on-field.

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  26. jimbo

    jimbo


    From a sincere journalist on the USA Presisidential  Election.:

    We, as journalists, play a part in the dysfunction of the process.
    Covering this chaotic spectacle is always a guilty pleasure, and though we often set out with the noble aim of exploring the issues and of not being fixated by the headlines of the day, it is hard, if not impossible, to resist.
    It explains why the US networks’ evening news in 2015 devoted 327 minutes to Donald Trump, but just 57 to Jeb Bush, 57 to Ben Carson, 22 to Marco Rubio and 21 to Ted Cruz. It’s a character-driven, rather than policy-driven, narrative.
    Thus, we end up producing “horse race journalism,” a poll-obsessed commentary preoccupied with who is up and who is down. Social media has exacerbated our worst tendencies.
    We are part of a process in which sound bites double as policy statements, and slogans become substitutes for nuanced manifestos. And I am guilty as charged.

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  27. Tincks

    Tincks


    BP,
    Thank you for that story.
    The reason that I remained a supporter through thick and thin and didn’t walk away was that the Club didn’t bury its head in the sand and deny the problem.  I knew that they worked with sensible fans, (but not any details) and have consistently banned troublemakers.
    Just under a year ago we had those oafs blocking a black man from getting onto the Paris Metro.  Life bans within minutes of the court case finalising.
    Fortunately the atmosphere now has none of the poison of old.  Just a bit “Prawn Sandwich” in the words of Roy Keane.  But, a vast improvement nonetheless, and for that we have the likes of your friend to thank.  As with all things in life it is often the unsung heroes that make the difference.
    I can happily take my nephew to a game in a way that my Dad couldn’t with me.

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  28. rougvielovesthejungle


    Big Pink at 1.30am
    Through the fanzine movement and elsewhere, ably assisted I have to say by Pat Nevin (in the days when truth was important to him), Mike worked very hard to get an anti-racist message across to the fans.

    ================================================================

    Whatever happened to wee Pat? Used to be such a grounded, well intentioned young lad. Now? 
    Yet another embarrassing component of our sporting mainstream media.

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  29. PaoloDeCanio


    I’m really worried about Strict Liability creating a new kind of terrorist fan who gets into rivals matches posing as a rival fan and then goes about attempting to get points deducted from them.  It’s not too far a step to throw a flare knowing that if you were banned from a rival’s ground, it would be a bit of a badge of honour.  We are dealing with the mentality of fan that would throw a flare or sing sectarian bile after all – normal rules do not apply.  
    Getting points deducted from a rival could even become a paid profession – paid for by the other side.  I mean, if Jack Irvine and others are up for spending their lives bigging up one team and denigrating everyone else, what’s the difference?  A sort of poor man’s Level 5.  
    I tried to post this on JJ but I don’t think they “like the cut of my jib”.  🙂 

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  30. Jungle Jim


    You only need to compare the coverage given to flares set off by Celtic fans versus flares set off by Dundee United fans to see where problems might arise.

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  31. andygraham.66


    Brentford have accepted a bid from Leeds United for Toumani Diagouraga.Rangers have been desperate to land the Bees midfielder this month, but have so far failed to meet his price tag.And Leeds have jumped to the front of the queue for the Frenchman after agreeing a fee with their Championship rivals.Diagouraga is one of the longest-serving players at Griffin Park but is in the final 18 months of his contract.

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  32. Smugas


    upthehoops 21st January 2016 at 9:16 pm‘…..I noted this picture of Pittodrie in the 1950’s on Twitter.’

    ======================================

    I can exksclushively reveal the purpose of the wee sheddie at Pittodrie.  In it AFC housed their cutting edge, state of the art facial recognition away support control centre. This was Big Dod the copper who shouted down “sing that again and I’ll kick yer erse!”

    £4m SPFL cheques can be sent to Big Dod, now retired, at my pm above and I’ll forward them.  Honest! 13 

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  33. tony

    tony


    https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/cc-king-cleared-of-contempt/

    soory wrong addy last post for JJ’s latest 

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  34. weejoe


    Tony, link not working.

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  35. weejoe


    Thanks Tony got it. Not sure about jj but always like to read other people’s perspectives on what’s happening at Ibrox.

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  36. wottpi


    STV confirming Diagouraga to Leeds.

    Must be plenty cash left in the war chest to now make a decent bid for O’Halloran?

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1340015-rangers-miss-out-on-diagouraga-as-midfielder-signs-for-leeds-united/

    Is Eustace still an option for the defensive midfield role?

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  37. stevo


    Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere, but the Intellectual Property Office is now reporting that the various trademarks have been returned to The Rangers Football Club Limited by Sportsdirect.com Retail Limited. The registration of full assignment was received on January 8th 2016 and recorded in the IPO register on Tuesday. The effective date of assignment is December 24th 2015.
    The only RFC-related trademark still showing as held by Sports Direct is, oddly, for clothing and souvenirs bearing the letters RFC in no particular design. It might simply take longer for the registration of opposed trademarks to be updated, this one having been opposed by a gentleman who might possibly have those initials.

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  38. wottpi


    One for Easyjambo to get his teeth into. 02
    Rangers First Annual report published. Not full accounts but just headline figures
    http://www.rangersfirst.org/media/Rangers-First-Annual-Report-2014-15-Jan-2016.pdf

    Donations from formation to end June 2015 – £1,022,098
    However £400k of that was one off donations of £500.00
    So £600,000  divided by 12 – £50,000 per month in donations (certainly not to be sniffed at if that level of regular donation is maintained)
    Cash in Bank at end of June 2015 £ 373,714
    So by time of vote to give £500k t the club the organisation may have had circa £675k in the bank.

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  39. goosygoosy


    Two questions for our legal experts
    Now that SD have lost the DCK contempt of court case , we wait to hear whether MA gives up or appeals and whether RIFC get their costs paid
    Lets assume RIFC get awarded costs and SD do not appeal
    As controller of Rangers Retail Ltd on finacial matters SD are in a position to pass on the costs of this case to Rangers Retail
    Would this be legal ?
    And
    As a general point does the legal profession expect their fees to be ring fenced from the outset of a court case?
    Or can they find themselves out of pocket because their client has run out of funds?

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  40. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    wottpi 22nd January 2016 at 1:28 pm # STV confirming Diagouraga to Leeds.
    Must be plenty cash left in the war chest to now make a decent bid for O’Halloran?
    http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1340015-rangers-miss-out-on-diagouraga-as-midfielder-signs-for-leeds-united/
    Is Eustace still an option for the defensive midfield role?
    __________________________

    So close to landing their target, again! Only beaten this time by a ‘significantly higher offer’ from Leeds United.

    ‘However, Leeds United have now beaten Rangers to the punch with a significantly higher offer…’

    So, ample evidence there that suggestions that TRFC put in derisory offers, as opposed to making genuine attempts to land players of a reasonable pedigree, are completely unfounded! It’s not as though TRFC put in a ‘significantly lower offer’, now is it? I hope St Johnstone have watched this unfold, and are thoroughly ashamed of themselves for not accepting a ‘significantly lower offer’ for O’Halloran!

    Nice, too, to see that STV are determined not to be seen as ‘Rangers haters’ by including a quote from Celtic supporter, Steve Evans, that “…They’ll be back in top league, no doubt.” They even manage to suggest that being outbid by a ‘significantly higher offer’ equates to being ‘beaten to the punch’! Well maybe being ‘beaten by a significant punch’ would sum it up, quite nicely!

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  41. easyJambo


    wottpi 22nd January 2016 at 1:48 pm #
    One for Easyjambo to get his teeth into.  Rangers First Annual report published. Not full accounts but just headline figureshttp://www.rangersfirst.org/media/Rangers-First-Annual-Report-2014-15-Jan-2016.pdf
    Donations from formation to end June 2015 – £1,022,098 However £400k of that was one off donations of £500.00 So £600,000  divided by 12 – £50,000 per month in donations (certainly not to be sniffed at if that level of regular donation is maintained) Cash in Bank at end of June 2015 £ 373,714 So by time of vote to give £500k t the club the organisation may have had circa £675k in the bank.
    ================================
    Thanks for the link.  I think you have already analysed the numbers in a similar way to which I would have done.

    The most important number for RF is the number of regular contributors.  They state that they had 9,000 such members as at June 2015.  I would expect that number to have drifted downwards since then.

    I thought that their contribution levels would have been a bit higher to be honest.  While £50,000 a month is decent, it will take a considerable amount of time for that to translate into the share ownership objectives it set for itself.

    Other clubs’ refinancing schemes have provided a more certain future and a greater level of influence in the boardroom, e.g. Partick Thistle’s Trust now owns over 19% of their club.  Hibs Supporters Limited is also currently raising funds to buy shares through monthly contributions.  They currently hold around 7% of the club, but with a means to increase that amount on a monthly basis until control of the club in no longer in the hands of Farmer and Petrie.  It may take them several years to get there, but the mechanism is in place.

    The Hearts situation is a little different with Foundation of Hearts still contributing directly to the working capital of the club, before funds are directed to repaying Ann Budge’s loan to the club, starting in June. To date, Foundation of Hearts has already “donated” £3.7m into the club’s coffers since the CVA was agreed in May 2014, with more than £120,000 being raised from its members every month.      

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  42. easyJambo


    Further to the RF accounts, the amount of cash in hand may well be less than the £675K that Wottpi estimates.  The share purchases that RF concluded after their year end involved two major outgoings, the first of 586K @ 27.731p and the second for 250K at 27.5p. Together these would have cost in excess of £230K.

    However, RF’s membership only really ramped up around January 2015, so the bulk of their income has only accrued since then, which would mean the that monthly income will be higher than the estimated £50K. 

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  43. easyJambo


    One final snippet from the RF accounts is the £7,800 paid to Level5 for media and PR services.
    It was probably good value for money given the free advertising and exposure they received from the Record and Herald groups.

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  44. Bawsman

    Bawsman


    What’s the monetary value of a rangers share?

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  45. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    Bawsman  22nd January 2016 at 5:48 pm #
    What’s the monetary value of a rangers share?
    =============================
    Not an exact calculation…

    …but mibbees an empty Curly Wurly wrapper…?

    I’ll get my Wagon Wheel…  09

     

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  46. tykebhoy

    tykebhoy


    Bawsman 22nd January 2016 at 5:48 pm #What’s the monetary value of a rangers share?

    The last known trade was at 27.5p per share http://lmmx.co.uk/companies/profile/rangers-international-foofball-club-plc/ .  However things aren’t really as simple as that.

    I doubt anyone outside one of the fans group would pay anything like that unless they were forced to.  By forced there is one court action and I believe a possible court action that may force a purchase at a higher price.  One of Mike Ashley’s actions has as a potential remedy RIFC being forced to buy out his shreholding.  I also believe that there is still time for someone to complain that King and T3Bs were acting in concert when purchasing over 35% of the shares.  If a complaint is made and upheld that forces the concert party to offer to buy out all shareholders at a price at some benchmark I forget but it is at least the minimum price they paid for shares in the 12 months prior to the 35% threshold being passed.

    Add to that the probable dilution of the shares given the number of loans to be converted to equity if/when RIFC are ever able to do that either with or without the need to offer shares at the same ratio to all other shareholders and you have another reason why they aren’t likely to fetch 27,5p.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, RIFC share value is in the eye of the would be holder 14

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  47. John Clark


    The judgement in the contempt case made by the Judge who told the Court his wife is a ‘Rangers’ supporter and that he himself is  not a ‘mason’ can be found at this link. 21 pages, I think.

    https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/sdi_-v_rangers.pdf

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  48. gerrybhoy67


    I am probably paranoid – in light of the sfa decision to stage East Kilbride game at Hamilton Accies ground – in my mind I think that the old Govan team were drawn against a lower league team a few years ago and inexplicably it was away from their spiritual home but for purely economic reasons both teams decided to play the tie at Rangers (IL) stadium – can any of you clever folk on here tell me if i’m right or just paranoid?

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  49. Flocculent Apoidea

    Flocculent Apoidea


    Rangers are tweeting “Mark Warburton will only buy players that can help @RangersFC challenge for the Premiership” but, on following the link, the headline of the website article adds the word “title” at the end.  Probably just a typo.

    No mention of what Mr Warburton’s criteria are for low-ball, publicity-seeking bids, though.  Maybe Keith Jackson could tell us?

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  50. John Clark


    gerrybhoy67 22nd January 2016 at 7:42 pm
    ‘… can any of you clever folk on here tell me if i’m right or just paranoid?’
    ________
    The relevant current rules seem to be these.( Not at all paranoid, but the way Vipond and Wullie Miller were going on about ‘there must be  good reason’ forced me to look up the Rules.)
    The rules might have been different at the time of which you speak ,of course. But I think that’s unlikely.
    [ http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFAPublications2012-13/SFA_HANDBOOK_169-200_Cup_Competition_Rules.pdf%5D

    11.Grounds for Ties, excluding Semi-Final and Final TiesSubject, in every case, to the terms of Rule 13:-(a)In each tie, a match shall be played on the ground of the club first drawn in the ballot.(b)If the result is a draw, a second match shall be played on the ground of the club drawn second in the ballot, unless, in the case of a Preliminary Round match (if applicable), a match in Round One, Round Two or Round Three, the clubs agree to play on a neutral ground
    13.Grounds for TiesNotwithstanding anything which is contained in Rule 11, if a club notifies the Scottish FA that it is unable to play a Cup match at its registered ground as detailed in the Official Return (Rule 6 and the Articles of Association refer) for whatever reason and the Board is satisfied of the validity of such reason, the match shall be played at the nearest registered ground of at least equivalent capacity which in the opinion of the Board is most suitable for the occasion. If a replay should be necessary, it will take place at the ground of its opponents

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  51. tykebhoy

    tykebhoy


    which in the opinion of the Board is most suitable for the occasion.

    Is that a rewording of the SPFL and SFA favourite “get out” of discretion.  If NDP is sold out, with additional demand,would that prove the discretion to be flawed?  14

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  52. easyJambo


    John Clark 22nd January 2016 at 8:16 pm #
    tykebhoy 22nd January 2016 at 8:39 pm #
    ==========================
    What have these two Scottish Cup ties got in common?

    30 Nov 2013 SC Cup Albion Rovers 1-0 Motherwell
    17 March 2014 SC Cup Albion Rovers 0-2 Rangers

    Well neither was played at Cliftonhill. They were both played at New Douglas Park.
    What is the nearest registered ground to Cliftonhill?  I make it the Excelsior Stadium in Airdrie at 2.36 miles away, while New Douglas Park on the other hand is 7.03 miles away.

    SFA discretion indeed.

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  53. gerrybhoy67


    Thanks JC,Tykebhoy and Easyjambo I’m sure there have been many previous discretion/indescretion with regard to these rules before and surely it would help EK to play at Motherwell as the club themselves requested to both raise as much money as possible and cater to a bigger crowd – they could probably fill Accies ground with their own fans and Junior fans in general before even thinking about Celtic supporters?
    It makes me wonder is it to inconvenience a certain demographic and reduce the amount of fans willing to attend when we should be trying to fill stadiums? 

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  54. jimbo

    jimbo


    As mentioned above, there is that wriggle room inserted into just about every rule in Scottish Football:
    “the Board is satisfied of the validity of such reason, the match shall be played at the nearest registered ground of at least equivalent capacity which in the opinion of the Board is most suitable for the occasion. ”

    With the greatest respect to EK I don’t expect they hold much hope of winning this game wherever it is played, but it’s a once in a lifetimes chance of making some serious money to invest in their club.  God only knows what they could do  with that type of money.  They suggested about 4 alternatives to their own ground, the least favoured was the one put forward by the SFA.  Denying the club on 100 – 200k pounds potentially.  

    How can these suited idiots sleep at night.

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  55. tony

    tony


    http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/sevco-the-orchestra-of-hate/
    James forrest latest 

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  56. wottpi


    Re the EK v Celtic cup tie.
    I notice Hampden was the EK second choice
    Anyone think Barry Hearn would have missed the marketing opportunity of a life time to allow the diddiest of diddy teams to run out on the national stadium’s pitch against the top club in the country in a David v Goliath match.
    Even if nobody turned up for the game itself,  the story would have been told world wide.
    I know who the amateurs are when it comes to Scottish Football and its not the likes of EK.

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  57. jimbo

    jimbo


    Wottpi, Was thinking about that earlier.  What a ‘romantic’ cup tie it could be.  I think a 30k+ crowd would easily have been attainable.  To settle for 6k is shameful. And I agree, imagine a junior club going on to the pitch as Hampden, I would almost support them myself.

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  58. ianagain

    ianagain


    Would have been grand if the EK could have played at Fir Park, given the links with Motherwell over the years. Major sponsor Motorola etc. and quite a large EK Well contingent.
    We musta done something wrong05 ?

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  59. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    tony 22nd January 2016 at 11:06 pm #

    http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/sevco-the-orchestra-of-hate/James forrest latest
    ==========
    That’s certainly a thought provoking piece.

    And IMO the logical conclusion – well, for a competent local media that is – is for the likes of the DR, ET, Herald etc. to agree to boycott e.g. the next TRFC press conference as a sign of support to the BBC – and to send a clear message to the club and its supporters.

    Won’t happen of course.

    The rest of the SMSM will look the other way as usual…and the club that is an indelible stain on Scottish football will continue to bully and intimidate to get its own way, as usual.

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  60. Matty Roth

    Matty Roth


    StevieBC 23rd January 2016 at 2:19 am #tony 22nd January 2016 at 11:06 pm #
    http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/sevco-the-orchestra-of-hate/James forrest latest ========== That’s certainly a thought provoking piece.
    And IMO the logical conclusion – well, for a competent local media that is – is for the likes of the DR, ET, Herald etc. to agree to boycott e.g. the next TRFC press conference as a sign of support to the BBC – and to send a clear message to the club and its supporters.
    Won’t happen of course.
    The rest of the SMSM will look the other way as usual…and the club that is an indelible stain on Scottish football will continue to bully and intimidate to get its own way, as usual.

    Nothing so dramatic as a boycott is required.
    They should all simply tell Level5 to shove off and get on with reporting accurate, fair, balanced and lamb free sports journalism.
    That will be quite sufficient and the change from what they normally do so dramatic everyone will get the message.

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  61. TommyB

    TommyB


    Are any of us surprised at the sfa’s inept handling of the cup tie venue? What is surprising is their  ridiculous assertion that the rules have been followed. If only that was true on every occasion and for every situation.. This forum and others like it would be redundant and maybe have never begun in the first place. However, I’m sure that the establishment, in the shape of the football authorities, will give all of those who diligently pursue the truth, many more reasons to expose them in the coming months. 

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  62. yourhavingalaugh

    yourhavingalaugh


    Tommy B
    What is NOT surprising is their ridiculous assertion that the rules have been followed.
    fixed that for you.

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  63. ulyanova


    East Kilbride have only themselves to blame. How dare they leave Ibrox of their list. 

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  64. yourhavingalaugh

    yourhavingalaugh


    Surely the advantage has been handed to Celtic,they know how to play this park,I may be mistaken but have East Kilbride ever played on the Hamilton Pitch.Ibrox would have been more neutral as at least Celtic have not played on the new turf that was laid after the games,only saying like.

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  65. John Clark


    yourhavingalaugh 23rd January 2016 at 9:15 am #
    ‘.What is NOT surprising is their ridiculous assertion that the rules have been followed.’
    _________
    Well, I can say that having tried, by my post of 8.16 pm last night, to demonstrate that I am fair-minded to a fault,
    can I now ask: who will rid us of the most dysfunctional, disjointed,  petty ( except in its malice), administrative Board in the world of Sport: a board that can swallow the camel of their  ‘crime’ of creating and perpetuating  the biggest football sporting lie there has ever been, to the perpetual damage of the game, while choking on the gnat of allowing a headline-interest cup-tie the chance of making an honest shilling or two?
    What in heaven’s name are our SPFL club Boards doing to try to end this whole farrago of mis-governance,  falsehood, and chicanery?
    What has Scottish Football done to itself that it should have fallen so far into farce and ridicule and self-contradiction?

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  66. helpmaboab

    helpmaboab


    Once again the blazers at Hampden have shown how inept they are at running our game. They pontificate about how we need to promote ‘the product’ to attract more fans to the game yet when a small club like East Kilbride have an opportunity to go head to head with a club like Celtic and make some serious money in the process,they insist on a rule(13) that the match must be played in the nearest equivalent stadium which has a much lower crowd capacity.No wriggle room there then.Funny how their rules can be bent,twisted and manipulated when it suits them. Wouldn’t it be a terrible shame if EK could only manage draw and had to replay at Celtic Park.

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  67. Carfins Finest

    Carfins Finest


    The Scottish Cup is the SFA’s flagship tournament. Their pride and joy. Yet they are happy to limit the exposure and the crowd size of what is a huge draw in terms if interest to Joe public. How can they possibly state ‘rules is rules’ after all they have bent and broken said rules with alacrity and aplomb over the last decade and more. These people are no longer working with the best interest of the game at heart. How can they be when they sell it short at every turn. Question: Where do you think the game would have been played should EK have drawn the SFA’s friendly team from Govan?

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  68. Big Pink


    Good news for ICT fans..

    New Deal for Gary Warren – Defender Signs Up Until May 2019.

    The Bristol-born, 31 year old centre half arrived in Inverness for the start of the 2012/13 season and has gone on to become a favourite with managers, players and fans at the club whilst clocking up over 130 appearances and bagging the team a dozen goals in the process.
    The ever-present Englishman has been a mainstay in the match day squad from day one.  Even a leg break could’t keep him down for long; having suffered the injury on 1st August 2015, he was back in the mix within 3 months and returned to the match day squad on 31st October 2015.
    Regularly deputising for club captain, Richie Foran, Gary has proven to be a real leader both on and off the pitch. Despite having a year left on his existing contract he was keen to commit his future to the Caley Jags and we look forward to bringing you news of others doing the same in the very near future.

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  69. Big Pink


    On ground swapping for cup ties, I am certain that Celtic played at least one “home” cup tie against Rangers (remember them?) at Ibrox.

    Early 70s, Celtic’s new stand roof was being built, and they had been drawn with Rangers in the League Cup section. Both games were played at Ibrox. I also think both were won by Celtic.

    Celtic also played a tie against an Edinburgh amateur side in the 90s (at Easter Road).

    Perhaps the rules were different then?

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  70. wottpi


    Talking about the SFA doing something for the wee guy.

    Next meaningless friendly at Hampden, if available, have a draw to get some normal punters entertained in any of the unused corporate boxes.

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  71. goosygoosy


    Carfins Finest 23rd January 2016 at 12:04 pm #The Scottish Cup is the SFA’s flagship tournament. Their pride and joy. Yet they are happy to limit the exposure and the crowd size of what is a huge draw in terms if interest to Joe public. How can they possibly state ‘rules is rules’ after all they have bent and broken said rules with alacrity and aplomb over the last decade and more
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Simple really
    They are corrupt  

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  72. jimbo

    jimbo


    Tam Cowan adamant that the SC tie should be played at East Kilbride.  It’s about the football not about the money.  Mmmmm not sure that money doesn’t come into it Tam 03

    Besides, he further opines, home advantage, a wee tight park, no big crowd atmosphere, “you never know what might happen”.  030303

    A bit of wishful thinking Tam?

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  73. BigGav


    Big Pink 23rd January 2016 at 12:14 pm #

    On ground swapping for cup ties, I am certain that Celtic played at least one “home” cup tie against Rangers (remember them?) at Ibrox.

    Early 70s, Celtic’s new stand roof was being built, and they had been drawn with Rangers in the League Cup section. Both games were played at Ibrox. I also think both were won by Celtic.
    =======

    Yes, it was 1971.
    Celtic won the ‘home’ game 2-0 on Aug 14th and the ‘away’ game 3-0 on Aug 28th.

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  74. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    It would appear that Celtic are not doing their bit to re-establish the Old Firm!

    http://m.heraldscotland.com/sport/14225330.Celtic_manager_Deila_defends_Stokes_loan_move_to_Hibs_amid_Rangers_concerns/?ref=mr&lp=1

    One of the strangest reactions around the SMSM’s attempts to rebuild the OF there’s been, it’s almost as though the hack is suggesting Celtic have made a mistake and might do themselves some damage!

    I just wonder what the reaction would be if Celtic were to buy Michael O’Halloran and loan him out to Hibs (or Falkirk) for the rest of the season.

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