To Comply or not to Comply ? – The Scottish Football Monitor

To Comply or not to Comply ?

UEFA Club Licensing. – To Comply or not to Comply ?

On 16 April 2018 The UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) adjudicatory chamber took decisions in the cases of four clubs that had been referred to it by the CFCB chief investigator, concerning the non-fulfilment of the club licensing criteria defined in the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations.

Such criteria must be complied with by the clubs in order to be granted the licence required to enter the UEFA club competitions.

The cases of two clubs::

Olympique des Alpes SA (Sion Switzerland )

and

FC Irtysh  (Kazakhstan) 

are of particular interest to those following the events under which the SFA awarded a UEFA License to Rangers FC in 2011 currently under investigation by the SFA Compliance Officer because

  1. The case documentation tell us how UEFA wish national associations to apply UEFA FFP rules
  2. The cases  tell us what might have happened to Rangers  FC in 2012 had they not gone into liquidation and as a consequence avoided the same type of sanctions that UEFA applied to Sion and Irtysh.

 

FC Sion  (Olympique des Alpes SA)

Here we are told how the Swiss FL and then the UEFA CFCB acted in respect of FC Sion in 2017 where a misleading statement was made in the Sion UEFA licensing application.

Full details can be read at

http://tiny.cc/y6sxsy

 

but this is a summary.

In April 2017 the Swiss FL (SFL) granted a licence to Sion FC but indicated that a Disciplinary case was pending.

In July 2017 the CFCB, as part of their licence auditing programme,  carried out a compliance audit on 3 clubs to determine if licences had been properly awarded. Sion was one of those clubs.

The subsequent audit by Deloitte LLP discovered Sion had an overdue payable on a player, amounting to €950,000, owed to another football club (FC Sochaux ) at 31st March 2017 as a result of a transfer undertaken by Sion before 31st December 2016, although the €950,000 was paid in early June 2017.

Deloitte produced a draft report of their findings that was passed to SFL and Sion for comment on factual accuracy and comment on the findings. Sion responded quickly enabling Deloitte to present a final report to the CFCB Investigation Unit. In response to the Deloitte final report Sion stated:

“il apparaît aujourd’hui qu’il existait bel et bien un engagement impayé découlant d’une activité de transfert. Ce point est admis” translated as

“it now appears that there was indeed an outstanding commitment arising from transfer activity. This is admitted”

What emerged as the investigation proceeded was that the Swiss FL Licensing Committee, after granting the license in April and as a result of a Sochaux complaint of non-payment to FIFA, had reason to refer Sion’s application to their Disciplinary Commission in May 2017 with regard to the submission of potentially misleading information by FC Sion to the SFL on 7th April 2017 as part of its licensing documentation.

Sion had declared

“Written confirmation: no overdue payables arising from transfer activities”, signed by the Club’s president, stating that as at 31 March 2017 there were no overdue payables towards other football clubs. In particular, the Club indicated that the case between FC Sion and FC Sochaux regarding the transfer of the player Ishmael Yartey was still under dispute.

The SFL Disciplinary Commission came to the conclusion that FC Sion had no intention to mislead the SFL, but indeed submitted some incorrect licensing documentation; the SFL Disciplinary Commission further confirmed that the total amount of €950,000 had been paid by the Club to FC Sochaux on 7 June 2017. Because of the inaccurate information submitted, the SFL Disciplinary Commission decided to impose a fine of CHF 8,000 on the Club.

Whilst this satisfied the SFL Disciplinary process the CFCB deemed it not enough to justify the granting of the licence as UEFA intended their FFP rules to be applied.

Sion provided the CFCB with a number of reasons on the basis of which no sanction should be imposed. In particular, the Club admitted that there was an overdue payable as at 31 March 2017, but stated that the mistake in the document dated 7 April 2017 was the result of a misinterpretation by the club’s responsible person for dealing with the licence (the “Club’s licence manager”), who is not a lawyer. The Club affirmed that it never had the intention to conceal the information and had provisioned the amount due for payment and that, in any case, it has already been sanctioned by the SFL for providing the wrong information.

The CFCB Investigation Unit accepted that the Sion application, although inaccurate, was a one off misrepresentation and not a forgery, (as in intended to deceive ) but that nevertheless an overdue payable did exist at 31st March and a licence should not have been granted.

Based on their findings, the CFCB Chief Investigator decided to refer the case to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber and suggested a disciplinary measure to be imposed on FC Sion by the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber, such measure consisting of a fine of €235,000, corresponding to the UEFA Revenues the Club gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.

The CFCB Investigatory Chamber submitted that it was  appropriate to impose a fine corresponding to all the UEFA revenues the Club gained by participating in the competition considering the fact that FC Sion should not have been admitted to the competition for failing to meet one of its admission criteria.

 

The Adjudicatory Chambers took all the circumstances (see paras 91 to 120 at http://tiny.cc/i8sxsy ) into consideration and reached the following key decisions.

  1. FC Sion failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 49(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the SFL not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
  2. FC Sion breached Articles 13(1) and 43(1)(i) of the CL&FFP Regulations. (Documents complete and correct)
  3. To exclude FC Sion from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next two (2) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19 and 2019/20).
  4. To impose a fine of two hundred and thirty five thousand Euros (€235,000) on FC Sion.
  5. FC Sion is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings.

Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.

It is now public knowledge that an actual liability of tax due before 31stDecember 2010 towards HMRC, was admitted by Rangers FC before 31st March 2011.

This liability was described as “potential” in Rangers Interim accounts audited by Grant Thornton.

“Note 1: The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. A provision for interest of £0.9m has also been included within the interest charge.”

The English Oxford Dictionary definition of potential is:

Having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future.

Which was not true as the liability had already been “developed” so could not be potential.

This was repeated by Chairman Alistair Johnson in his covering Interim Accounts statement

“The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. “  where he also added

“Discussions are continuing with HMRC to establish a resolution to the assessments raised.”

This could be taken as disputing the liability but In fact the resolution to the assessments raised would have been payment of the actual liability, something that never happened.

In the Sion case it was accepted the misleading statement was a one off misrepresentation, but at the monitoring stages at June 2011 in Ranger’s case the status of the liability continued to be misrepresented and in September the continuing discussions reason was repeated, along with a claim of an instalment paid whose veracity is highly questionable.

The Swiss FL Licensing Committee did at least refer the case to their Disciplinary Committee when they realised a misleading statement might have been made. The SFA however in August 2011, when Sherriff Officers called at Ibrox for payment of the overdue tax , did no such thing and pulled up the drawbridge for six years, one that the Compliance Officer is now finally charged with lowering.

 


 

The case of FC Irtysh of Kazakhstan is set out in full at http://tiny.cc/y9sxsy  and is a bit more straightforward but is nevertheless useful to compare with events in 2011 in Scotland.

Unlike Rangers FC , FC Irtysh properly disclosed that they had an overdue payable to the Kazakhstan tax authorities at the monitoring point at 30th June 2017. This caused the CFCB Investigatory Unit to seek further information with regard to the position at 31st March

It transpired that Irtysh had declared an overdue payable at 31st March but cited their financial position (awaiting sponsor money) as a reason for non payment to the Kazakhstan FA who accepted it and granted the licence. The outstanding tax was paid in September 2107.

The outcome of the CFCB Investigation was a case put to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber  who agreed with the CFCB Investigation Unit that a licence should not have been granted and recommended that Irtysh be fined the equivalent of the UEFA prize money, (that had been withheld in any case whilst CFCB investigated.)

The CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber however decided that a fine was not sufficient in sporting deterrent terms and ruled that:

 

  1.  FC Irtysh failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 50bis(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the FFK not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
  2. To withhold four hundred and forty thousand Euros (€440,000) corresponding to the UEFA revenues FC Irtysh gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
  3. To exclude FC Irtysh from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next three (3) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19, 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons). This sanction is deferred for a probationary period of (3) three years. This exclusion must be enforced in case the Club participates again in a UEFA club competition having not fulfilled the licence criteria required to obtain the UEFA licence in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
  4. FC Irtysh is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings. “

 

The deferral was because unlike Rangers FC,  FC Irtysh had properly disclosed to the licensor the correct & accurate financial information required, so the exclusion was deferred for a probationary period of (3) years.

 

Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.

From the foregoing it could be deduced that had Rangers FC qualified for the Champions League (or European League) and not gone bust as a result and so not entered liquidation BUT it became public knowledge by 2012 that a licence had been wrongly and possibly fraudulently granted then

  1. Rangers would have been fined the equivalent of their earnings from their participation in the UEFA competitions in 2011
  2. At least a two year ban from UEFA Competitions would have been imposed, but more likely three in view of repeated incorrect statements.
  3. The consequences of both would have been as damaging for Rangers survival as the real life consequences of losing to Malmo and Maribor in the qualifying rounds of the Champions and European Leagues.

Karma eh!

Interestingly in the UEFA COMPLIANCE AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITY REPORT 2015 – 2017 , the CFCB investigatory chamber recommended that both the Kazakhstan FA and Swiss FA as licensors

“pay particular attention to the adequate disclosure of the outstanding amounts payable towards other football clubs, in respect of employees and towards social/tax authorities, which must be disclosed separately;

Would the same recommendation apply to the Scottish FA with regard to their performance in 2011 and will the  SFA responses thereafter to shareholders in a member club be examined for compliance with best governance practice by the SFA Compliance Officer investigating the processing of the UEFA Licence in 2011?

This would be a welcome step in fully restoring trust in the SFA.

Auldheid

Auldheid

Celtic fan from Glasgow living mostly in Spain. A contributor to several websites, discussion groups and blogs, and a member of the Resolution 12 Celtic shareholders' group. Committed to sporting integrity, good governance, and the idea that football is interdependent. We all need each other in the game.

4,355 Comments
  1. Finloch


    A belated well done to Celtic its players and its management team for a second treble.
    A very impressive performance on Saturday.
    And a heartfelt congratulations to Livvy for fighting their way up in a second successive promotion that I certainly hadn’t seen coming.
    I think they will have a difficult time in the top division simply because the size of the Livvy backroom business will always consign them to being yo-yo clubs (along with half a dozen others like Inverness, St Mirren, Hamilton, etc).

    Not so Celtic who genuinely are head and shoulders above with the Desmond-influenced team off the park headed by Lawwell and the football management team headed by Rogers delivering big time.

    Martin O’Neil is absolutely not correct when he says Celtic need a strong Rangers.
    But as in most renta-pundit manufactured quotes there is a grain of truth that has been twisted to appeal to a particular demographic by our media.

    That grain of truth deep down is that the club he himself knows well and managed with its proud European heritage and ongoing European aspirations needs more competition.
    Not to keep winning the majority of trophies in Scotland because the Celtic business model will continue to sustain advantages over the others including Charlie’s renamed club as well as other genuine trophy aspirants like Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs.
    No Martin knows that to become a force in Europe again Celtic need to lift all aspects of their on the field game.
    Celtic’s domestic dominance will continue and while this is good in the short term for Celtic’s fans I personally don’t think it is good in any way for Scottish Football.

    This is not a uniquely Scottish problem because all over Europe we see leagues polarising into a small number of genuine aspirants and a reduction in genuine competition.

    We are in a TV driven money madness world where Crystal Palace have bigger revenues than genuine European giants like Ajax, Feyenoord and other names that no longer feature.

    They too like Celtic are stymied Martin and competing for ever-devalued domestic trophies.

    Celtic don’t need a strong Rangers Martin because that is trying to frame the future by replacing a model that didn’t really work in the past.

    But football needs change and Celtic need change, not necessarily in Scotland but certainly in Europe. 

    I’d say Lawwell and Desmond are already aware and working on that. 

    Celtic are genuinely in a different league. 

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  2. John Clark


    HighlanderMay 20, 2018 at 15:07
    “It’s just yet another example of the participants in the Five Way Agreement starting from the flawed premise that Rangers* must be preserved at all costs, but those pesky facts getting in the way and the whole deception unravelling, making a group of conniving men look foolish as well as corrupt.”
    _________________________
    And, an aspect that has not been reflected upon, that ‘group of conniving men’  no doubt had lawyers assisting them, whose names I would like to know ( yes, Ally, just as you wanted to know (as if you hadn’t already known!) the names of certain people in your dog-whistle to the pack). 
    None of them would get any business from me, because, in my view, one or other of them  must have been singularly incompetent not to see what was really happening.
    Incompetence can be understood, but I would not think of using a lawyer whom I believed to have represented any of the 5-way agreement signatories.
    I would not accept deliberate ,wilful complicity in a piece of legal nonsense.

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  3. Nick


    Finloch makes an excellent point that one team dominating is not unique to Scottish football, in fact it’s becoming a trend across Europe.  The Sports Illustrated article below discusses this and comes to the conclusion (which I agree with) that this is inevitably headed toward some sort of European Super League.

    Being a traditionalist I’m not entirely sure I like that idea but I can see the logic, do the governing bodies really just let this run until Bayern, PSG, Celtic et al are closing in on their 50th titles in a row?  

    https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/04/19/european-football-future-leagues-competition-epl-la-liga-bundesliga-serie-a-ligue-1

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  4. Big Pink




    Nick. The major problem with the scale of access to cash in such a league is this;
    Who’s to say that any of Scotland’s top six couldn’t be competitive in that setup with that kind of cash sloshing around?
    Celtic have more spectators than everyone else in Scotland and that gives them a huge financial advantage, but in a Super League, gate money becomes less of a % of income.
    It may be that the new football reality is that it is more cash-driven than ever, and that national leagues could become a thing of the past as a consequence, but if such a development takes place, everyone should have an opportunity to access it.

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  5. Nick


    BIG PINKMAY 21, 2018 at 09:44

    I agree entirely Big Pink, any new structure should at least be part of a pyramid where teams can be promoted & demoted. 

    One of my biggest fears is that the European super-clubs will ultimately look to create a franchise like the NFL or NBA where there is no relegation as this would give them certainty over revenues, I think that would be a sad day for football.
    I would guess the compromise may be for the Champions League to be changed to be an actual league running concurrently with domestic leagues.

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  6. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    NICKMAY 21, 2018 at 09:52
    BIG PINKMAY 21, 2018 at 09:44
    I agree entirely Big Pink, any new structure should at least be part of a pyramid where teams can be promoted & demoted. 
    One of my biggest fears is that the European super-clubs will ultimately look to create a franchise like the NFL or NBA where there is no relegation as this would give them certainty over revenues, I think that would be a sad day for football.I would guess the compromise may be for the Champions League to be changed to be an actual league running concurrently with domestic leagues.
    _____________

    I think that that would be a bigger problem for the leagues that have those big club’s already dominating them, for the attraction of those big clubs would become ever greater for the fans (fans, not supporters) of, say, the English League. Sponsors and advertisers would see the English League (and other ‘big’ leagues) become less attractive, with the non-football income reduced, probably quite dramatically, as a result. At that point, our so called ‘pub league’ status, where most clubs are running on a sustainable level, with TV and sponsorship revenues already low by comparison, will find themselves at an advantage over the ‘big league’ clubs who will have huge debt and facing a huge drop in income.

    We might not get any stronger as a result, but will be in a better position to cope, with minimal club insolvencies to face, than those leagues that lose the mighty revenue drawing power of the Manchester Uniteds etc.

    Imagine how supporters of Everton, West Ham, Newcastle and all the others would feel if their clubs were described as pub league teams by people they live and work with, who support clubs they only ever see on television.

    Assuming not even Celtic would make it into such a super ‘franchise’ league, we wouldn’t face any more humiliation than we already do, and find much less of a migration of support to this super league, as, unlike England, we wouldn’t have one of those elite clubs in our midst. With the exception of the Ibrox faithful, the rest of us are coping with the dominance of Celtic, and even if they did get into some European League, as long as that league was still accessible to us all, the negative effect would not be so great in Scotland. At least I’d hope so.

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  7. Jingso.Jimsie

    Jingso.Jimsie


    NICK

    MAY 21, 2018 at 09:52

    I agree entirely Big Pink, any new structure should at least be part of a pyramid where teams can be promoted & demoted. 

    One of my biggest fears is that the European super-clubs will ultimately look to create a franchise like the NFL or NBA where there is no relegation as this would give them certainty over revenues, I think that would be a sad day for football.

    I would guess the compromise may be for the Champions League to be changed to be an actual league running concurrently with domestic leagues.
    ——————————————–

    I suspect that the future is a Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday Euro Super League for 18 or 20 teams.

    That may lead to the top teams actually having what RFC supporters once wished for: a ‘domestic’ team & a ‘European’ team. 

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  8. Jingso.Jimsie

    Jingso.Jimsie


    Re my last post:

    The 18 or 20 teams would likely be split into two conferences, giving 16 or 18 matches & then semis & a final; or just a final.

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  9. Corrupt official

    Corrupt official


         MoH’s agent has apparently issued “an apology” to outraged Sevvies, still reeling from the outrage welling within, at Windass and Foderingham being pictured on holiday with Scott Allan. 
        For those who content themselves that this is a “Two cheeks of the same bahookie” issue, it is worth pointing out that Sevco player MoH, sat amongst the fervent Celtic support, free from phlegm, or abuse of any kind, while Hibs supporters displayed no concerns surrounding Scott Allan’s holiday companions. 
       To my mind, MoH’s agent should be the one demanding the apology.  
       There are some things accepted as the norm in Scotland, that would be off the radar in most civilised countries
         

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  10. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    One of my mates is a financial exec for a big record company (are they still called that ?) ,and stoats around the world in service to them . He reckons that there may be something coming from the far east , an invitational league comprising Chinese , Korean , Australian, Japanese ,Indian and European franchises , all matches financed by and played for the convenience of media companies . A massive market to be exploited ,says he . He also supports the ‘Ton as his Da’ played for them in nineteen canteen , and will hopefully be at home to see us visit the Tail O’ the Bank and have a wee reunion .

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  11. John Clark


    Feeling the need to finish what I start, here is the final bit of my report ( such as it is!) of the action in Court last Thursday, picking up from resumption  after coffee break at 11.30. 

    I wasn’t able to stay for that afternoon’s proceedings or to attend on Friday, so I don’t know what the next process will be. Perhaps the judge might decide on the basis of the arguments already heard, and decide that the Lord Advocate has Absolute Immunity? In which case, I imagine, Clark and Whitehouse lose their actions. 

    But given that Lord Malcolm expressed some surprise  that anyone would ever be above the law, that  any kind of judicial action by any officer of state could be exempt from any kind of scrutiny no matter how perverse it may be, I suspect that he will let the matter go to proof. 

    Just have to wait and see.
    ——
    For the sake of completeness this is a Continuation of the court proceedings of last Wednesday after the 11.30 coffee break.

    Mr Fairley looked at the analysis of the SXH judgment and addressed 4 points:
    1.the issue of ‘prosecution without factual basis’ and the issue of ‘prosecution for improper motive’ were NOT discussed in the SXH case, because from the manner of Lord Toulson’s references and the note.. If your Lordship will look at Para 2, Lord Toulson notes ” The criminalisation of conduct may amount to interference with article 8 rights, and that will depend on the nature of the conduct. If the criminalisation does not amount to an unjustifiable interference with respect for an activity protected by article 8,no more does a decision to prosecute for that conduct…” ‘For that conduct’- Lord Toulson did not have in mind the issue of improper motivation. He was not dealing with that.

    2. Lord Kerr for that very reason in his judgment is not referred to as having dissented from the majority….You will see that in his ‘obiter’ remarks, Lord Kerr decided that ” If prosecuting authorities are aware – or ought to have become aware – that the basis for a proposed prosecution no longer obtains, or that there is a defence available to the defendant which will provide a complete answer to the crime charged, and if they fail to act on that information in order to secure the defendant’s release, that is an obvious instance of a failure to have respect for the defendant’s right to a private life…” I adopt his view.

    3.In the case of Regina v G, the analysis is entirely correct. There was a 2-2 split on whether article 8 was engaged, with one judge not expressing a view. The test to meet is the Jamieson test. The issue was finally decided, and SXH did not concern that issue, and given the split in R v G, and obiter remarks, it simply cannot be said that the averments of the pursuer must fail, and should go to proof.Lord Malcolm: What about Lord Hoffman’s …?Mr Fairley: ..also Lord Hope…Lord Malcolm: R v G an example of improper motive…?Mr Fairley: ..the allegation that the Crown overstepped {in a case of prosecution for rape rather than a lesser crime] , there was no suggestion of improper conduct, so, no, l’lord.
    Lord Hope and Lord Carswell ….. They considered that prosecutorial choices must be exercised compatibly with the Convention, and that the decision to proceed against G under section 5, rather than section 13, was disproportionate

    4. The Ullah principle, that prosecution should not expand unnecessarily…..If my learned friend Mr Moynihan is right in what he says SXH says, I would say that in the Ullah principle there is a circular argument. When would there ever be a case taken to Strasbourg?
    We need to go to proof.. my learned friend is not entitled to have article 8 dismissed.there are two particular passages in the Graham case.
    Prosecution of a crime unknown in Scotland is outwith competence. This is what I say happened here: we need to go to proof on that.

    Mr Currie QC then spoke.( or rather mostly mumbled inaudibly!): about out-of-competence, the distinction between lack of malice and absence of malice. They seem to have regarded the pursuer’s argument as ‘pursuer’s case stands on ill-motives…that the lord Advocate’s opinion was deliberately actuated by malice’ { and there was a reference her, I think, to Inspector Robertson}They did not consider ‘out-of-competence’ as a matter of relevance.Beaton..Mccrone….what the [Crown?] did was to attack my distinction between malice and out-of-competence on the basis of an English case. Still on the Hester case, it appears that Immunity should be extended to all actions of the Crown. Our submission is that the action was taken by the Procurator Fiscal, not the lord Advocate. I found on Lord Guthrie’s opinion: Just mere assertion on no evidence by my learned friend that the Lord Advocate would be deterred from taking action by the prospect of consequences, retaliation.If we turn to other jurisdictions, Melles [?] Mr Moynihan’s justifications are not self-evidently true. They have to be justified in a proper balance.In the Imber [?] case, in England prosecutions were private, until 1984 when the Crown prosecution service was created. This was not accompanied by provision for Immunity.There is such provision under the Scotland act, but it does not point to a requirement of Absolute Immunity. My learned friend depended heavily on… No comfort to my client, who had prosecution hanging over him for 18 months.Section 170 of the Criminal procedure (Scotland)Act , Parliament… summary proceedings.. [??? couldn’t hear!] Hester is judge made law.[ At this point, Mr Fairley had the Court’s permission to withdraw, not being involved any more [I think]]Mr Currie continued: 1.the First defender’s argument that the case against the Police for unlawful detention, arrest and charge my lord: you will not find any averment of malice.2. Relevancy3 I make a motion for expenses of process4. motion for additional fee.On the first matter, the matter of detention, sec.14 of the 1995 Act. I cite statutory…… Mc Kenzie v Murphy 1. the detaining officer must… 2. ..have reasonable grounds.. 3…… 4…. 5 … [ Note: that Section was repealed in January 2018]
    The pursuer was detained twice, and on each occasion was interviewed by police before being arrested and charged. The justification for each of these is different!The pursuer avers that the thresholds were not met. In the case of Roberts v Keith,wrongful detention, it was established that a constable must have reasonable grounds….
    And then it was lunchtime!

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  12. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    All this talk about Scottish football, and Celtic, needing a strong ‘Rangers’.

    What are those people looking for, or expecting to happen. Do they expect Celtic to stop improving until ‘Rangers’ catch up, or everyone else to find a way of financing a rebuilding program for TRFC so that we can have two teams tanking us every week instead of just one? Or do they want both these things to happen.

    I expect, though, that what many of them expect is for everyone to turn a blind eye, while the rules are bent, ignored and broken, to enable the new club to spend money it doesn’t have on the strength of promises of loans and share issues that have been mooted as just about to happen since the promisers first arrived at Ibrox.

    Genuine question; what is the point that these people, that keep pushing football rent a mouths with that same tired mantra, are trying to get across, and what is it they hope to achieve, other than to keep the name ‘Rangers’ in headlines on the back page of the rags? 

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  13. John Clark


    “A good, strong Rangers side is good for the league and it would be remarkably good for Celtic”, says Martin O’Neill.
    I would suggest, Mr O’Neill, that what would be good for Celtic, and remarkably good for the whole of Scottish Football ,would be a return to honest Governance, and the practical upholding of Sporting Integrity by
    a) the public declaration that TRFC Ltd is not now, and never can be, entitled to claim to be RFC(IL)
    b) a public apology for the nonsense of the 5-Way agreement that cobbled up the biggest sporting lie in history
    c) the opening up to full investigation of the actions of officers of the SFA in the awarding of the UEFA licence to RFC, to let a light shine on any possible complicity in any deceitful practice by RFC of the time.
    d) and publication of the reasons why the SFA club licensing committee felt safe in telling UEFA this time that a club living hand to mouth on ad hoc loans  merits the award of a UEFA licence for next season.
    We can do without those in football who want to pretend that Scottish football is normal, and not living a lie.

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  14. bigboab1916

    bigboab1916


    MON may have expressed an opinion that the media wanted to hear but all I as a Celtic fan hears is ex employee of Celtic put forward his view, a view that a lot of people could not give a shit about.
    When i support my team i support everything about my team and all who are involved and when they leave they may choose to become a name rembemered and cherished by Celtic fans for their efforts and endevours or may go into the media or any form of football. But whatever they choose to do if they are no longer connected to the club then basically all they do is express opinions, MON may think it is right inhis mind Celtic need a strong Sevco, but in actuall fact Celtic do need anything Scottish football needs a strong competitive leauge of all teams.
    MON depending on the context asked has if it was straight to the point, do you think Celtic needs a strong Sevco, had done all the other teams a diservice and all the other teams have openely and honestly cut their cloth accordingly, so if this is MON,s view then who cares what he says and if he said it based on the way it was asked then he is a former employee [moderated].

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  15. Christyboy

    Christyboy


    ALLYJAMBOMAY 21, 2018 at 13:24

                   Over the weekend I was pondering much the same and the position of the Ibrox club’s raison d’etre seems to be changing in that  sporting clubs, or for that matter any club, were all about participating against other like minded clubs or individuals, the getting together with others for personal as well as team benefits and cheering on your own guys. The whole ethos at The Rangers  appears less to be about following a team or even interested in how your team does or  concern about the path they are following. Rather, it appears the whole business is geared up and more concerned about stopping the exploits of another team rather than trying to improve their own status and make some positive history of their own. Any improvements made are to “Stop the Ten” rather than improve their own clubs position. Their own Chairman has told us that’s what they’re in it for. A chairman that appears more interested in another clubs exploits rather than his own betrays his position. It’s not about togetherness, enjoyment, committment, honesty or meeting up every week to follow your team. It just seems they’ve all to come together to “Stop the Ten” and it’s immaterial how they achieve it. Just my thoughts…..

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  16. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    Remember the good old days before (we knew about) corrupt football governance and Aberdeen and Dundee United ruled the roost ? No media campaigns then for strong opposition to them . The only way that newspapers can be sold in the West of Scotland is by setting one group of fans against the other , even in front page stories . I don’t think the plan is working . Sports journalists are trying to protect their employment – they have zero interest in the truth .

    View Comment
  17. Nick


    BIGBOAB1916MAY 21, 2018 at 14:30

    Your casual use of a religious slur to describe one of Celtic’s greatest managers purely because you disagree with something he said is almost as depressing as the 5 thumbs up it received.  I hope and assume the moderators will do their job fairly swiftly with your post.

    In terms of the general debate over O Neill’s comments I do agree it would be great if people talked up the chances of other teams as well as Rangers raising a challenge but I find the hysteria when the idea that Rangers are the most likely (perhaps better worded as the least unlikely) to raise a challenge.  Their wage budget and the size of their support compared to Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts makes that a reasonable assumption.

    View Comment
  18. bfbpuzzled


    On the “need a strong Rangers”  – there are numerous case studies about how to develop from financial calamity into as strong a position as possible within the practical limitations of a Club-look at the top four clubs (apart from TRFC) in the Scottish league this season just past  all of them have come from difficult financial positions towards maximisation of potential. There are numerous areas where each of them have done  and continue to do the same kinds of things stadium developments financial probity living within means available, youth development and doubtless more. Those are the ways needed, however all of them require time and fiscal discipline.
    Unfortunately TRFC and its followers do not think that they should be subject to the same economic laws as everyone else, the others act according to micro economic rules within the market, they have no choice. TRFC believes that they can adopt Keynesian Macro Economic laws by spending now beyond their means with a hope of future gains and glory. The problem is that such policies are for nations not private concerns no matter how important they believe themsele to be.
    There is the TRFC bogeyman of the “unseen fenian hand” maliciously running everything against them and in favour of Celtic. Rather than that myth they would be better remember the real unseen hand of Adam Smith.
    Ps
    The abuse dealt to Michael O’Hallohan ( sorry about the spelling) has been utterly shameful- talk of sending bullets in the post and breaking legs in training are commonplace. That is the kind of thing which makes some of us wish for the end of TRFC as a focus for such lunacy. It is is a football club, not the vanguard of a political and cultural movement hell bent on recreating a never existent Protestant theocracy- that needs to be pointed out to them. Social Media is a great thing but it has a very sordid side too.

    View Comment
  19. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    BFBPUZZLED
    MAY 21, 2018 at 15:38
    =====================================

    I have long held the view that the continuity myth has given the Rangers support a feeling of immortality. The club cannot die, therefore they can continue to take as many risks as they want and somehow money will be found to keep the club alive. If you believe that you can survive liquidation then everything else falls nicely into place.

    They are talking about how many millions or tens of millions that Steven Gerrard will be given to spend on building a new squad. No thought whatsoever as to where that money will come from, or where the wages for the superior players will be found. Or how it will ever be paid back. 

    I really wonder about the mentality, can people really not see that you can only borrow money if someone is willing to lend it to you. You can only sell shares if someone wants to buy them.

    The continuity myth has been the worst thing to happen to the new club. Instead of re-building from scratch and developing a new business model and infrastructure whilst working through the divisions they have demanded money is spent to buy success. Their trading figures in the last 6 years are staggering in their stupidity. 

    As you say other clubs have looked at their business model and have changed how they operate in order to survive and hopefully prosper. They have worked out that in order to succeed you have to first survive. I see no evidence of that coming out of the Ibrox support. They see only one thing, being “back where they belong”. They are more likely to end up where I think they belong. 

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  20. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    NickMay 21, 2018 at 15:14
    BIGBOAB1916MAY 21, 2018 at 14:30
    Your casual use of the religious slur “soup taker” to describe one of Celtic’s greatest managers purely because you disagree with something he said is almost as depressing as the 5 thumbs up it received.  I hope and assume the moderators will do their job fairly swiftly with your post.
    In terms of the general debate over O Neill’s comments I do agree it would be great if people talked up the chances of other teams as well as Rangers raising a challenge but I find the hysteria when the idea that Rangers are the most likely (perhaps better worded as the least unlikely) to raise a challenge.  Their wage budget and the size of their support compared to Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts makes that a reasonable assumption.
    __________________

    Maybe you should add in the size of their bank balance, Nick, to add to your bigging up of a club in severe financial straits.

    TRFC have only just managed to make contact with the second club in the Premiership, but this mantra of Scottish football needs a strong Rangers’ has been going on, almost from the moment of the old club’s demise. Perhaps you would be better suggesting Scottish football needs more strong clubs than Celtic, to become a more competitive and so more interesting competition, rather than going with the TRFC supporting media’s view that just one strong club is all that’s required. I think, too, that any suggestion that the media are suggesting only TRFC might have the wherewithal to challenge Celtic, is wrong, when what they really mean is it’s only TRFC that they want to challenge Celtic. If Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs were all putting up a good challenge, the media would still be pushing the mantra that what Scottish football really needs is a strong ‘Rangers’.

    For the SMSM the ideal has always been a return to the days of an ‘Old Firm’, and that is all they want, or will find acceptable. To them, the good of Scottish football is as of nothing compared to the good of their favoured club.

    View Comment
  21. Nick


    ALLYJAMBOMAY 21, 2018 at 16:03

    I’m most certainly not “bigging up” anyone as I would have thought my statement that Rangers are “the least unlikely to challenge Celtic” would have made obvious.  

    Analysis has shown that in football if there is a team with a significantly higher wage budget than the rest then they will win the league in circa 90% of cases.  This data suggests that Celtic with several times the budget of everyone else will almost always win the league but it also suggests that Rangers with at least twice the wage budget of their nearest rivals will generally come 2nd and be the nearest challenger.

    It’s not impossible for any team to challenge Celtic and the glorious nature of sport means that one day someone probably will.  It’s also not offensive or unreasonable for people to conclude from the data available that Rangers are more likely than Hearts to raise a challenge.

    View Comment
  22. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    Just on finances, it would appear Club 1872 think the share issue will be in about 6 weeks, though I’m not sure where they get that from.

    They also seem to think they will be offered an equal number to their current holding, which I suppose is entirely possible, even with pre-emption being dis-applied. Though I would be surprised if they hold the £2m to do that. I take it they are assuming a 25p price. 

    Countdown to the share issue

    15 May, 2018
    We’ve reached the end of a disappointing season but the work doesn’t end for Club 1872. Last week Dave King announced that the upcoming share issue would be put into motion. That means that in all likelihood it will take place within the next six weeks.

    Club 1872 is the only way for supporters to take part in this share issue and it represents a huge opportunity for the Rangers support. It gives us the chance to invest up to £2m directly into Rangers. We will shortly be updating members on the funds we have available – funds that that will go straight into the club and straight onto the pitch, with Steven Gerrard set to overhaul the squad in the summer. It also provides us with the opportunity to ensure that supporters retain a meaningful say in the future and security of our club.

    View Comment
  23. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    NICK
    MAY 21, 2018 at 16:19

    This data suggests that Celtic with several times the budget of everyone else will almost always win the league but it also suggests that Rangers with at least twice the wage budget of their nearest rivals will generally come 2nd and be the nearest challenger.
    ==========================================

    They have failed to come second in their two years in the top division and couldn’t win the second tier at the first attempt. Couldn’t even get up via the playoffs.

    Reality does not match your contention. Maybe there are other important factors, rather than just wage bills. For example the right manager, buying the right players, picking the correct tactics.

    I’m afraid the wage bill reflects how much you are willing to pay players, not necessarily how good they are. 

    View Comment
  24. bigboab1916

    bigboab1916


    NickMay 21, 2018 at 15:14BIGBOAB1916MAY 21, 2018 at 14:30
    Your casual use of a religious slur to describe one of Celtic’s greatest managers purely because you disagree with something he said is almost as depressing as the 5 thumbs up it received.  I hope and assume the moderators will do their job fairly swiftly with your post.

    And i am not allowed an opinion if it does not suit your agenda. So MON can do no wrong in your eyes and because you have him in high repects no-one can say anything. You do not think he knows its a loaded question, what was BRs response to the need for a strong Sevco, he give them it straight Aberdeen were the challengers to us so why do we not need a stronger Aberdeen, if your not happy then tough and what do you mean ask the moderators to remove this, its an opinion if you do not like who cares. its not about you, [moderated]. I do not pander to the sevco circus and neither should anyone of Celtic persussion there are lots of teams in Scotland and Sevco are of no importance as a team here, over any other Scottish team.

    BB1916
    Nevertheless, your language was couched in terms we have been trying (for six years) to dispense with. Name calling is not helpful, and Nick was well within his rights to ask for a moderator’s intervention.
    Tris

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  25. Nick


    HOMUNCULUSMAY 21, 2018 at 16:26

    I 100% agree that other factors than wage bill can have an impact and clearly have in the last couple of years.  The statistic that in 90% of cases higher wage bill will equate to greater on-field performance comes from Kuper and Szymanski’s highly respected “Soccernomics” book which is well worth a read.

    In football more than ever before money dictates success, we can dislike that fact but we can’t deny it’s existence.

    View Comment
  26. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    NICK
    MAY 21, 2018 at 16:44
    ===============================

    Sorry but that pre-supposes that everything else is in place. It’s too simple to just base things on the size of the wage bill. 

    If I recruit a 36 year old over the hill centre back and pay him £30k a week it does not mean my team is much more likely to win the league, or even be more competitive than before I brought him in. It’s just poor recruitment and overpaying a player. 

    In my view the most important person at a football club is the first team manager, particularly if he is also the person responsible for picking the players to bring in. 

    Aberdeen have a good first team manager, Rangers have an unproven one. In fact we have several good first team managers in the top division in Scotland just now. Steven Gerrard may be another, no-one knows just now. 

    View Comment
  27. ernie


    I’m sorry guys but the stats are clear throughout world fitba: league position is almost always in correlation with wage bill.  TRFC are third to Dons second because they are a shambles, hence the correlation globally is about 80-90 rather than 100%. i.e. things are indeed generally “in place”.
    The revenue/fanbase/turnover/sugar daddy dynamics of modern football is very interesting.  Five years ago Dons fans were mightily p***ed off when Ryan Fraser left for Championship Bournemouth, a Mickey Mouse outfit.  January 2018 Deloittes richest 30 world fitba (by turnover) has 14 from the EPL.  This is where Celtic and TRFC (if they ever get their act together, Celtic already have) will start queuing. There in 28th place is Bournemouth with a turnover of £121 million.  Their ground capacity is 12,360.

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  28. John Clark


    Court Rolls, 
    Tuesday 22nd May EXTRA DIVISION LORD BANNATYNE STARRED MOTION
    CA84/17 Walter Smith v Neil Caisley &c
    _____
    I think this is Walter’s claim about pension money due to him from his Everton days- bringing an action against Caisley, one of whose  specialisms is ‘advising professional sportsmen and footballers.’
    Not of sufficient interest for me to think of trotting in to learn more. 

    View Comment
  29. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    Not being religious , wtf is a soup taker , and in what way is it a slur ?

    View Comment
  30. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    Attachment

    CORRUPT OFFICIALMAY 21, 2018 at 12:10
    56
    0 Rate This
         MoH’s agent has apparently issued “an apology” to outraged Sevvies, still reeling from the outrage welling within, at Windass and Foderingham being pictured on holiday with Scott Allan. 
    —————
    On holiday? does he not have champions league to prepare for?
    I wonder who will be the next one with aspirations of champions league to be rolled out.Bingo cards at the ready.

    View Comment
  31. jimbo

    jimbo


    Paddy,  don’t be asking about that sort of thing.  You are way above that patter.

    View Comment
  32. Smugas


    Where might one procure a copy of “soccernomics” and these fanciful notions of money and success.

    yours etc

    Lord Nimmo Smith

    View Comment
  33. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    On the “need a strong Rangers”  –
    The only one’s who need a strong rangers are the one’s who hark back to the Murray era.This was a financially doped rangers.Have they not learned anything?
    The next time someone say’s to you “Need a strong rangers”.Ask them what era do they consider that rangers were strong.
    Then feel your  smile light up your face. 

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  34. Big Pink


    Paddy

    Soup-taker (Ireland) A person who has sold out their beliefs, referring to the Irish Potato famine when some Catholics converted to a Protestant faith in order to gain access to a free meal.

    As Tris said, it is a pejorative and insulting term based on religious activity. Not at all what we hope to hear or see on SFM.

    View Comment
  35. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    NickMay 21, 2018 at 16:19
    ALLYJAMBOMAY 21, 2018 at 16:03
    I’m most certainly not “bigging up” anyone as I would have thought my statement that Rangers are “the least unlikely to challenge Celtic” would have made obvious.  
    Analysis has shown that in football if there is a team with a significantly higher wage budget than the rest then they will win the league in circa 90% of cases.  This data suggests that Celtic with several times the budget of everyone else will almost always win the league but it also suggests that Rangers with at least twice the wage budget of their nearest rivals will generally come 2nd and be the nearest challenger.
    It’s not impossible for any team to challenge Celtic and the glorious nature of sport means that one day someone probably will.  It’s also not offensive or unreasonable for people to conclude from the data available that Rangers are more likely than Hearts to raise a challenge
    _____________________–

    You seem to be mixing up a high wage budget with the ability to meet a club’s commitments. So far TRFC have managed that by resorting to ever increasing loans and fiscal recklessness. I think we all agree that, if they’d started from a position of financial prudence, and built gradually using the size of their support, then by now they would be the club you describe. But they didn’t, and they are not. They are a club that, without some huge input of money, relatively soon, will almost certainly hit the same wall that the old club hit in 2012.

    You are resorting to the same mistake that the SMSM do, ignoring the financial reality of that wage budget. Of course, going by the amount of money they’ve forked out on players, since their inception, they really should be so much further ahead of the pack than the reality shows.

    And going by their player budget, they may well be the ‘least unlikely’ to challenge Celtic, but they are also, by far, the ‘least unlikely’ to see out the next season!

    View Comment
  36. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    Big PinkMay 21, 2018 at 18:37
    Paddy
    Soup-taker (Ireland) A person who has sold out their beliefs, referring to the Irish Potato famine when some Catholics converted to a Protestant faith in order to gain access to a free meal.
    As Tris said, it is a pejorative and insulting term based on religious activity. Not at all what we hope to hear or see on SFM.
    ___________

    Like Paddy, I had no idea what this phrase referred to, but you are right, there is no room for it here on SFM.

    At my age it’s always nice to be educated, but somethings would be better unlearned, so they can be more quickly forgotten and fall from the public lexicon.

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  37. upthehoops


    BIG PINKMAY 21, 2018 at 18:37

    As Tris said, it is a pejorative and insulting term based on religious activity. Not at all what we hope to hear or see on SFM.

    =========================

    I was most surprised and also disappointed to see this term being used on this forum. Let’s hope it’s a one-off. 

    View Comment
  38. upthehoops


    HOMUNCULUS
    MAY 21, 2018 at 16:20

    Just on finances, it would appear Club 1872 think the share issue will be in about 6 weeks, though I’m not sure where they get that from.

    ===================

    At a guess Dave King told them. Fool me once and all that…

    View Comment
  39. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    Probably been mentioned several times before, but…

    This ‘Scottish Football needs a strong Rangers [sic]’ mantra seems to have evolved.

    Initially, IMO, it was to reinforce entitlement; to ‘restore’ the normal order to Scottish football, and to ‘return’ to CFC v. RFC dominance.

    Now, 6 shambolic Ibrox years later…

    ‘Scottish Football needs a strong Rangers [sic]’ sounds more like a plea of desperation, because the deviant club is such an embarrassment – even to many bears, the SMSM etc. 

    They – themselves – need to ‘return’ to positive, successful, triumphant stories…for purely their own, selfish reasons.  

    Nothing at all to do with ‘Scottish Football’, IMO.

    So, the sooner this blight on Scottish Football disappears permanently, the better it would be for ALL Scottish Football.

    …and for all the other 41 strong, less strong, and positively weak clubs – who ply their trade in an honest manner.

    View Comment
  40. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    BIG PINKMAY 21, 2018 at 18:37
    Cheers , BP . I had never come across the term . I must mix with the wrong kind of people .

    View Comment
  41. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    HOMUNCULUSMAY 21, 2018 at 15:54
    As you say other clubs have looked at their business model and have changed how they operate in order to survive and hopefully prosper. They have worked out that in order to succeed you have to first survive. I see no evidence of that coming out of the Ibrox support. They see only one thing, being “back where they belong”. They are more likely to end up where I think they belong. 
    —————
    I believe they see two.
    “back where they belong”.
    And stop the TEN.
    Just maybe if it was not for the desire to be 
    “back where they belong”.
    And stop the TEN.Desire may be too soft a word,Maybe obsession of stopping the ten and to be back where they belong.They maybe would have a very different business model.
    It was the ibrox clubs obsession of matching celtic’s big cup win in europe that killed the first ibrox club.
    It will be this ibrox clubs obsession of stopping the ten that will kill this entity.

    View Comment
  42. shug

    shug


    Thick as sh+te in the neck of a bottle idiots.

    http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2018/05/a-congratulations-to-celtic-from-rangers.html

    View Comment
  43. Jingso.Jimsie

    Jingso.Jimsie


    Just a comment on the ‘Soccernomics’ points:

    In this regard TRFC is an outlier (a fact, figure, piece of data, etc. that is very different from all the others in a set and does not seem to fit the same pattern – Cambridge Business English Dictionary).

    Why’s that? Terribly poor leadership, from the holding company’s board, through the football business, to the chap wearing the captain’s armband. No amount of money will change that when decision-making is so poor.

    For example, a new football manager takes up his post on the first of June. TRFC committed themselves to signing new players (eg. Arfield, McGregor, Murphy) before that manager is in post & knowing that Murty would be gone from the first team picture. The Director of Football, who’s advising the new manager, has been in post for eleven months (two transfer windows & entering into a third), yet several of last season’s expensive recruits haven’t proved to be good enough for the third-best team in the league. The club is still signing ageing ‘marquee’ players on (apparently) big salaries, with no sell-on value, despite the Group Chairman stating that they have to produce players to transfer out for decent fees. There’s no real clear vision about what they’re doing, or should be doing, on the player front.

    Somebody needs to tell RIFC/TRFC that the focus on ‘Stopping Ten’ is strangling the club & may well be their undoing, yet it seems to be the only target they have on their horizon.

    Edit: I note that ClusterOne has made a similar comment to my last paragraph while I was typing.

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  44. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    CHRISTYBOYMAY 21, 2018 at 14:43
    ———–
    Was said so much better in your post than mine

    View Comment
  45. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    JINGSO.JIMSIEMAY 21, 2018 at 19:35
    Edit: I note that ClusterOne has made a similar comment to my last paragraph while I was typing.
    —————-
    And i just noticed CHRISTYBOYMAY 21, 2018 at 14:43 said it so much better than my post as i was catching up.

    View Comment
  46. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    SHUGMAY 21, 2018 at 19:30
    Thick as sh+te in the neck of a bottle idiots.
    http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2018/05/a-congratulations-to-celtic-from-rangers.html
    _________

    Surely that was written by The Clumpany, it is such a well crafted p*ss take06, a wonderful pastiche of a ‘Rangers’ blog, exaggerating the sense of entitlement and the blaming of their many ‘enemies’ for all the wrongs done? to them. And, of course, it is so wrong of Celtic to take advantage of their wealth by buying better players, and employing better managers, than everyone else.

    Bravo, whoever you are, an excellent piece of sarcasm…surely14

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  47. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    On the insulting term based on religious activity.
    I have only just started to hear this phrase use in the last couple of weeks.Like many i never had a clue what it ment. Wonder why it is in circulation just now.

    View Comment
  48. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    If people think that buying the wrong players and paying them too much money, leading to a large unsustainable wage bill is the route to success long may their delusions continue.

    In the cup final Celtic had McGregor, Tierney and Forrest all coming through the Celtic youth system. They were all instrumental in the double treble.

    There were also player like Ajer (20)  who came to Celtic at about 18, Rogic (25) who came to Celtic at about 20, Dembele (21) who came to Celtic at about 20, N’Tcham (22) who came to Celtic at about 21.

    To me that is what football and running a successful club is all about. Not having loads of money and throwing it at buying players and paying them ridiculous wages. 

    Rangers had a really good chance to start over and do it that way. They chose not to.

    View Comment
  49. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    Confidence is growing that Steven Gerrard and his new staff and players may finally properly trade blows with Parkhead and give them a right bloody nose.
    ————–
    This confidence.What is it based on he never explains.
    Now a celtic squad full of confidence after winning a double treble have the confidence to go on and create more history.They have the trophy’s to prove they are full of confidence
    Now the ibrox club.
    Steven Gerrard…never managed a club.
    new staff…up for question.
    players…so far have not lived up to the hype.
    New players…would any of then so far get into the celtic team?
    Mmmm that confidence,must have bought it from somewhere.

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  50. jimbo

    jimbo


    It’s now more than hour since Cluster One posted.  If someone doesn’t post soon, I will.

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  51. jimbo

    jimbo


    DBD,  any thoughts?

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  52. bfbpuzzled


    Higher wage bill correlates to more success only ceteris paribus. The TRFC situation as has been pointed out has many issues which causes the relationship to break down- chiefly because the wages paid are not reflective of relative ability, a £30000 per week player at TRFC is often not as good as one on a similar wage elsewhere.
    The TRFC wage bill is a badge of self aggrandisement, look at us we must be a big club look at our wage bill. Not only that it is a symbol of real Rangersness-normal rules do not apply to us we must spend money, it is what we do. In this version of the scorpion and the frog story the scorpion is stinging itself and perhaps to death while the frog escapes to the other side.

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  53. ernie


    Ah good old ceteris paribus, well said BFB!  It’s the odd chance that this may not be the case that keeps us going to the football, or to put it another way; it’s the hope that kills you! Looking at the season just gone in the SPL, soccereconomically speaking, TRFC finished third and (ceteris paribus) should have been second, Hearts probably should have been fifth and finished sixth and Ross county apparently spend Uncle Roy’s profits and should have finished 10th or 11th.  It’s a long time since I’ve dabbled in maths but pretty sure that will work out at a 80% plus correlation, sadly predictable.  Thankfully, as has been said several times tonight, there appears to be no chance of TRFC being any more than a spiv’s playground so here’s to the Dons, Killie and maybe a few more exceeding their predicted placing.

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  54. roddybhoy


    If I can throw my tuppence worth in regarding a possible  european super league , as a Celtic fan I dont think Celtic would be invited and I hope they dont get an invite.  The Champions League has been a bore for years with the same teams in the latter stages year upon year. Long gone are the days when a Porto could be crowned kings of Europe. I say if the powers that be want a select few teams to play in a “super duper ” league , well on you go, fans will tire of a harlem globetrotters type of league very quickly in my opinion . I think there is a genuine opportunity here for the “diddy ” nations ( In Uefas eyes) to get together and do a bit of thinking out the box . Scotland , holland ,Belguim  the Scandanavian Countries etc . Surely some kind of League or indeed Leagues could work , pretty sure fans from these countries and ours would rather pay to watch their own teams than pay for a harlem globe trotters money fest type of league, hence a decent TV deal. Importantly make it a strict FFP  with no wriggle room for dodgy “loan” deal type of signing ala Neymar PSG . Maybe even a transfer cap . Get the fans onside create a league that is difficult to win and create an environment where the chances of any team winning year after year are reduced ……..Maybe I am being Naive but as has been posted by other posters we aint too far from franchised leagues  . Instead of the wee countries hanging around to await their fate at the hands of the Money grabbing big shots at UEFA , knock your heads together get a plan and Tell Eufa to do one

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  55. jimbo

    jimbo


    Think of where Killie might have been with their manager at the start of the season.

    But then there is their pitch!  1307   It’s like a worn out old rug!

    Sorry, it won’t do.

    I was trying to think of the costs.  £100k?  For a grass pitch.

    But apparently it’s in use from dawn till dusk for the community.  But for goodness sake, what are the local council doing?  Don’t rely on a professional club with pride at stake who must be embarresed every time a professional team come to play on that carpet.

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  56. upthehoops


    A quick glance online today has reminded me we are now at the time of year when it is wonderful to be a Rangers fan, while the rest of us struggle to keep our glasses half full.  This is the time of year when they always have the best Manager, the most money, the best signings, and the best chance of winning the league.  It was like that under Warburton at the start of 2016/2017, under Caixinha at the start of 2017/2018, and even like that under Murty in January 2018. It is already like that under Gerrard before 2018/2019. 

    What a bummer it must be for them when they actually have to play teams on the pitch. 

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  57. Finloch


    It’s a big day today in Scottish Football.

    Ian Maxwell takes up post as SFA Chief Exec.

    Our new leader.

    A much needed change of leadership after the out of his depth and very wooden Mr Regan forgot all his early promise and promises and eventually became a sacrifice by the real powers at the SFA.
    I’ll never forget Regan’s TV interview when he nearly wore out the word transparency.
    He then forgot to both look up what the T word meant and most certainly forgot that it had any reference to him and his actions.

    Ian is the ninth in a group of SFA leaders starting with McDonald, Graham, Allan, Walker, Farry, Taylor, Smith, Regan and now Maxwell.

    And whoever knifed Regan to protect whatever is still there waiting to see how the new CEO goes about things. 

    Not a easy job in a difficult and dysfunctional organisation with too many egos in various powerful committees and also a long term “establishment” leaning.

    I don’t know Mr Maxwell don’t know what makes him tick and how he thinks and have never met him but I do know a couple of people who know him well and he was liked during his time at Thistle and seen as having the ability to see things for himself.

    He can fight his own corner.

    Working for a shoestring club he can also get things done and make the tea himself if necessary.

    As Thistle CEO he will have a view and deep insight into some of the stuff that has happened and not all of it positive about those he now leads.

    I know he has been on our site (and others like us) in the past but don’t know if he has ever posted here. 

    We’ll hear his coronation speech later on the MSM and it might set out an agenda.

    Worryingly we’ve already had an insight of what the SFA want to do with the outfall of Resolution 12 with the compliance officer already framing a solution that exonerates the SFA for everything and blames someone or something in a box waiting to be liquidated.

    Another move along now nothing to see and a new CEO with real stuff to do…..

    It is the start of a classic SFA fudge, the kind of nonsense that we’ve seen for as long as I’ve been a fan.

    And quite early on Mr Maxwell will have to make a decision whether to deal properly with some of this toxic stuff or try to bury it and see it fester and only get worse.

    We all know the SFA has never more needed a leader with a feel for what’s right and more important a feel for the fans.  
    Ian has also seen and discussed (as Jags CEO) the results of the recent SFSA fans survey and what they thought of the organisation he now heads up.

    So Mr Maxwell on your first official day here is some advice on leadership and your task ahead.

    John Maxwell (no relation) says 
    “A leader is one who knows the way, goes the way and shows the way”.
    I can’t argue with that.

    Simon Sinek says 
    “Leadership is not about the next election, it’s about the next generation”.
    None of us would disagree with that either.

    Harold Geneen’s insight is 
    “Leadership is practiced not so much in words as in attitudes and actions”.
    And again we’d all buy into that.

    There is a small but heartfelt Finloch quote to end on and it is a simple request.

    Ian all the fans want is honesty and integrity and vision.

    That takes more than words which are cheap and have in the past been hollow and rent-a-quotes written by the SFA PR advisers with an agenda.

    We want the SFA to be fit for purpose and for the good people who work and volunteer on the various committees there to thrive and those with agendas to be a thing of the past.

    Don’t just take the money.

    Be the difference

     

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  58. John Clark


    FinlochMay 22, 2018 at 08:39
    ‘…It’s a big day today in Scottish Football…..
    ….…..Ian all the fans want is honesty and integrity and vision.’
    _______________________
    I agree entirely, Finloch, and well expressed. 
    I would simply add  “When do we want it? -now, and with back-dating to 2012” 
    The future cannot be securely built on an untruth.

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  59. Abrakebabra

    Abrakebabra


    FinlochMay 22, 2018 at 08:39‘…It’s a big day today in Scottish Football…..….…..Ian all the fans want is honesty and integrity and vision.’
    Well put Finloch, you sum up the whole point of this site with your post.
    As a long-time lurker (I’ve been following events since Day 1 of the RangersTaxCase blog), today is as good a day as any to make my first ever post.
    I can see Hampden from my living room window and will be keeping my eye on the actions of Mr. Maxwell. In his position one of the challenges will be to find the correct balance between sporting integrity and commercial expediency. Let’s hope that scrutiny from the internet bampots will help lead him to make the right choices.

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  60. slimjim


    UPTHEHOOPS MAY 22 07.15
    Always “wonderful being a Rangers” fan UTH.  
    The time of year is immaterial when supporting the countries most successful team.  15 
    Good to know that even after clinching a deserved double-treble we are still foremost in your thoughts.04 

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  61. easyJambo


    Ian Maxwell’s first interview says not a lot about anything.

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  62. shug

    shug


    Didn’t know sj was a Celtic fan.

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  63. slimjim


    SHUG MAY 22 11.13
    Celtic fan?. Last week i was a member of the msm, or working on behalf of Level5 according to one or two on here. I seem to have somehow gone downhill from those heady heights. 

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  64. shug

    shug


    SJ maybe you could answer something I have heard. Now please don’t take this as gospel but as usual rumours abound that your club won’t even be picking up mr gerrards wages if you don’t know if this is the case maybe you can dig around and find out.

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  65. shug

    shug


    Sj
    SHUG MAY 22 11.13Celtic fan?. Last week i was a member of the msm, or working on behalf of Level5 according to one or two on here. I seem to have somehow gone downhill from those heady heights. 
    I just thought you were a Celtic fan when you said The time of year is immaterial when supporting the countries most successful team well that would be Celtic these days with an unbroken history and all that jazz.

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  66. Helpumoot


    Excellent post, Finloch. I wonder if you could list the past presidents who belonged to a certain fraternity? (Here’s a clue: it’s the same list you gave.)
    And the problems the new president faces have already been compounded by the appointment of Alex McLeish as Scotland manager, a man who is clearly not well and/or past it. (He humiliatingly touted himself to Sevco, Live on television – “Give me a call”, a call which never came….. from Sevco! An EBT user who will be receiving a tax bill from Hector, if he hasn’t already. A man whom no other football club in the UK was willing to hire. But the best candidate for Scotland??!)

    Which brings me to Haudit and Daudit, McRae and Petrie. I get McRae. No need for in depth analysis there. But Rod Petrie? Way back when Rangers(IL) imploded, the BBC broadcast a mighty discussion forum, hosted by Jabba, called something like, ‘Scottish Football in crisis.’ Petrie was on that panel and was the only one who spoke up robustly for fair play and sporting integrity. What on earth happened that he has ditched those principles and become part of the problem? What influence was powerful enough for him to sell his soul?
    Both need to go.
    Common sense would have dictated that Brendan Rodgers got Manager of the Year – the fact that he didn’t makes Scottish football look a bit ridiculous – and, sorry Kilmarnock fans, but this is a backhanded compliment, your man’s efforts did deserve recognition, he should have been seriously considered for the Scotland job. But Haudit and Daudit put paid to that one. (McLeish and McKay have already begun to alienate the players with their remarks about call offs for the South American matches, matches which nobody but H and D and a dearly departed President, actually wanted in the first place.)

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  67. Jingso.Jimsie

    Jingso.Jimsie


    EASYJAMBO

    MAY 22, 2018 at 11:10
    Ian Maxwell’s first interview says not a lot about anything.
    —————————————

    I hope he didn’t spout that garbage at his interview. That’s actually lowered my expectations, which weren’t very high to start with…

    My takeaway from that clip is that we’ll have to bear with him as he’s a fitba’ man really & has a lot to learn, despite having served on SFA boards etc., about the job to which he’s been appointed. No mention of governance or transparency, either.

    The SFA needed a strong appointee who is driven by business & all that entails, not someone who appears to be a dyed-in the-wool Scottish football man/fan.

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  68. wottpi


    HOMUNCULUSMAY 21, 2018 at 20:25

    I must admit I was thinking similar the other day when I saw the usual reports of T’Rangers going for the likes of Defoe (35), Leiva (31), Skirtel (33) to satisfy the need for ‘big name (and big money) signings.

    Given the experiences and limited contributions of the likes Alves and Barton it is difficult to see why these elder statesmen are being considered, other than a quick fix (be that on the field or to satisfy the Bears red top readership..

    Hearts were lucky to get Berra (33) who just wanted to come home. Lafferty (30) will either give us another season or maybe get sold on for some cash as he still has a bit of life in him. Naismith (31) was of course a loan deal and it remains to be seen if anything can be  arranged to see him return next year. However other than those the focus has been on bringing on the Hearts youngsters and of the signings to date, with the exception of Steven McLean (35), are 26 or younger. McLean is of course a stop gap and someone that will not be costing the club a fortune. Berra and Lafferty will be getting a decent wage but not to the level being paid out at Ibrox.

    T’Rangers and Gerrard will really have to get a bit smarter with their recruitment strategy if they want to get anywhere near Celtic and creating a gap between the rest of the SPFL. 

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  69. wottpi


    PS

    Given all the recent posts re oldco/newco, Celtics treble, the SFA charges etc  has anyone got a feel for where we are with the TOP and the 20p offer King was supposed to have made via Laird Investments.

    That’s all gone a bit quiet!

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  70. Bogs Dollox


    wottpiMay 22, 2018 at 11:40
    PS
    Given all the recent posts re oldco/newco, Celtics treble, the SFA charges etc  has anyone got a feel for where we are with the TOP and the 20p offer King was supposed to have made via Laird Investments.
    That’s all gone a bit quiet!
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I don’t know where it comes from but let’s just call it gut instinct talking when I say he’s not going to make the offer and the strategy is to play for time to see if something else turns up. Meanwhile we are dragged into the depths of OC/NC and the finer points of Law “discussions”.

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  71. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    We’re doomed now ! As if relegation wasn’t bad enough , they’ve only gone and dug up Neil Patey (remember him ?) to comment on our predicament .              https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44204562

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  72. slimjim


    SHUG MAY 22 11.24
    Not true Shug.
    Is there a source for this one PMG/JJ/JF etc?.
     

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  73. John Clark


    wottpiMay 22, 2018 at 11:40
    ‘..has anyone got a feel for where we are with the TOP and the 20p offer King was supposed to have made via Laird Investments.’
    __________
    I’ve been asking myself the same question!
    This guy “Simon Lindsay, a Managing Director and Head of UK M&A at Citigroup, is to be the next Director General of the Takeover Panel”  will take up his appointment on 2 July 2018. He was appointed on 28th April.
    Maybe the present incumbent wants to leave it to him, to sort out what the heck the TOP was thinking of in going to court for the first time ever only to (apparently) find that they can’t follow through ,and are now apparently floundering around not really trying hard to exert their supposed authority!

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  74. John Clark


    paddy malarkeyMay 22, 2018 at 12:11
    “…Patey, a partner at Ernst and Young…”
    __________________
    Who would use the services of Ernst and Young in some serious matter ,08with someone like Patey being a partner?10

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  75. jimbo

    jimbo


    Paddy, if true, that a hefty amount of money to be down.  Lets hope you get some decent runs in the cups with the bigger clubs coming along with their support.

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