To Comply or not to Comply ?

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UEFA Club Licensing. – To Comply or not to Comply ?

On 16 April 2018 The UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) adjudicatory chamber took decisions in the cases of four clubs that had been referred to it by the CFCB chief investigator, concerning the non-fulfilment of the club licensing criteria defined in the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations.

Such criteria must be complied with by the clubs in order to be granted the licence required to enter the UEFA club competitions.

The cases of two clubs::

Olympique des Alpes SA (Sion Switzerland )

and

FC Irtysh  (Kazakhstan) 

are of particular interest to those following the events under which the SFA awarded a UEFA License to Rangers FC in 2011 currently under investigation by the SFA Compliance Officer because

  1. The case documentation tell us how UEFA wish national associations to apply UEFA FFP rules
  2. The cases  tell us what might have happened to Rangers  FC in 2012 had they not gone into liquidation and as a consequence avoided the same type of sanctions that UEFA applied to Sion and Irtysh.

 

FC Sion  (Olympique des Alpes SA)

Here we are told how the Swiss FL and then the UEFA CFCB acted in respect of FC Sion in 2017 where a misleading statement was made in the Sion UEFA licensing application.

Full details can be read at

http://tiny.cc/y6sxsy

 

but this is a summary.

In April 2017 the Swiss FL (SFL) granted a licence to Sion FC but indicated that a Disciplinary case was pending.

In July 2017 the CFCB, as part of their licence auditing programme,  carried out a compliance audit on 3 clubs to determine if licences had been properly awarded. Sion was one of those clubs.

The subsequent audit by Deloitte LLP discovered Sion had an overdue payable on a player, amounting to €950,000, owed to another football club (FC Sochaux ) at 31st March 2017 as a result of a transfer undertaken by Sion before 31st December 2016, although the €950,000 was paid in early June 2017.

Deloitte produced a draft report of their findings that was passed to SFL and Sion for comment on factual accuracy and comment on the findings. Sion responded quickly enabling Deloitte to present a final report to the CFCB Investigation Unit. In response to the Deloitte final report Sion stated:

“il apparaît aujourd’hui qu’il existait bel et bien un engagement impayé découlant d’une activité de transfert. Ce point est admis” translated as

“it now appears that there was indeed an outstanding commitment arising from transfer activity. This is admitted”

What emerged as the investigation proceeded was that the Swiss FL Licensing Committee, after granting the license in April and as a result of a Sochaux complaint of non-payment to FIFA, had reason to refer Sion’s application to their Disciplinary Commission in May 2017 with regard to the submission of potentially misleading information by FC Sion to the SFL on 7th April 2017 as part of its licensing documentation.

Sion had declared

“Written confirmation: no overdue payables arising from transfer activities”, signed by the Club’s president, stating that as at 31 March 2017 there were no overdue payables towards other football clubs. In particular, the Club indicated that the case between FC Sion and FC Sochaux regarding the transfer of the player Ishmael Yartey was still under dispute.

The SFL Disciplinary Commission came to the conclusion that FC Sion had no intention to mislead the SFL, but indeed submitted some incorrect licensing documentation; the SFL Disciplinary Commission further confirmed that the total amount of €950,000 had been paid by the Club to FC Sochaux on 7 June 2017. Because of the inaccurate information submitted, the SFL Disciplinary Commission decided to impose a fine of CHF 8,000 on the Club.

Whilst this satisfied the SFL Disciplinary process the CFCB deemed it not enough to justify the granting of the licence as UEFA intended their FFP rules to be applied.

Sion provided the CFCB with a number of reasons on the basis of which no sanction should be imposed. In particular, the Club admitted that there was an overdue payable as at 31 March 2017, but stated that the mistake in the document dated 7 April 2017 was the result of a misinterpretation by the club’s responsible person for dealing with the licence (the “Club’s licence manager”), who is not a lawyer. The Club affirmed that it never had the intention to conceal the information and had provisioned the amount due for payment and that, in any case, it has already been sanctioned by the SFL for providing the wrong information.

The CFCB Investigation Unit accepted that the Sion application, although inaccurate, was a one off misrepresentation and not a forgery, (as in intended to deceive ) but that nevertheless an overdue payable did exist at 31st March and a licence should not have been granted.

Based on their findings, the CFCB Chief Investigator decided to refer the case to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber and suggested a disciplinary measure to be imposed on FC Sion by the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber, such measure consisting of a fine of €235,000, corresponding to the UEFA Revenues the Club gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.

The CFCB Investigatory Chamber submitted that it was  appropriate to impose a fine corresponding to all the UEFA revenues the Club gained by participating in the competition considering the fact that FC Sion should not have been admitted to the competition for failing to meet one of its admission criteria.

 

The Adjudicatory Chambers took all the circumstances (see paras 91 to 120 at http://tiny.cc/i8sxsy ) into consideration and reached the following key decisions.

  1. FC Sion failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 49(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the SFL not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
  2. FC Sion breached Articles 13(1) and 43(1)(i) of the CL&FFP Regulations. (Documents complete and correct)
  3. To exclude FC Sion from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next two (2) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19 and 2019/20).
  4. To impose a fine of two hundred and thirty five thousand Euros (€235,000) on FC Sion.
  5. FC Sion is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings.

Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.

It is now public knowledge that an actual liability of tax due before 31stDecember 2010 towards HMRC, was admitted by Rangers FC before 31st March 2011.

This liability was described as “potential” in Rangers Interim accounts audited by Grant Thornton.

“Note 1: The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. A provision for interest of £0.9m has also been included within the interest charge.”

The English Oxford Dictionary definition of potential is:

Having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future.

Which was not true as the liability had already been “developed” so could not be potential.

This was repeated by Chairman Alistair Johnson in his covering Interim Accounts statement

“The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. “  where he also added

“Discussions are continuing with HMRC to establish a resolution to the assessments raised.”

This could be taken as disputing the liability but In fact the resolution to the assessments raised would have been payment of the actual liability, something that never happened.

In the Sion case it was accepted the misleading statement was a one off misrepresentation, but at the monitoring stages at June 2011 in Ranger’s case the status of the liability continued to be misrepresented and in September the continuing discussions reason was repeated, along with a claim of an instalment paid whose veracity is highly questionable.

The Swiss FL Licensing Committee did at least refer the case to their Disciplinary Committee when they realised a misleading statement might have been made. The SFA however in August 2011, when Sherriff Officers called at Ibrox for payment of the overdue tax , did no such thing and pulled up the drawbridge for six years, one that the Compliance Officer is now finally charged with lowering.

 


 

The case of FC Irtysh of Kazakhstan is set out in full at http://tiny.cc/y9sxsy  and is a bit more straightforward but is nevertheless useful to compare with events in 2011 in Scotland.

Unlike Rangers FC , FC Irtysh properly disclosed that they had an overdue payable to the Kazakhstan tax authorities at the monitoring point at 30th June 2017. This caused the CFCB Investigatory Unit to seek further information with regard to the position at 31st March

It transpired that Irtysh had declared an overdue payable at 31st March but cited their financial position (awaiting sponsor money) as a reason for non payment to the Kazakhstan FA who accepted it and granted the licence. The outstanding tax was paid in September 2107.

The outcome of the CFCB Investigation was a case put to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber  who agreed with the CFCB Investigation Unit that a licence should not have been granted and recommended that Irtysh be fined the equivalent of the UEFA prize money, (that had been withheld in any case whilst CFCB investigated.)

The CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber however decided that a fine was not sufficient in sporting deterrent terms and ruled that:

 

  1.  FC Irtysh failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 50bis(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the FFK not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
  2. To withhold four hundred and forty thousand Euros (€440,000) corresponding to the UEFA revenues FC Irtysh gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
  3. To exclude FC Irtysh from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next three (3) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19, 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons). This sanction is deferred for a probationary period of (3) three years. This exclusion must be enforced in case the Club participates again in a UEFA club competition having not fulfilled the licence criteria required to obtain the UEFA licence in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
  4. FC Irtysh is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings. “

 

The deferral was because unlike Rangers FC,  FC Irtysh had properly disclosed to the licensor the correct & accurate financial information required, so the exclusion was deferred for a probationary period of (3) years.

 

Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.

From the foregoing it could be deduced that had Rangers FC qualified for the Champions League (or European League) and not gone bust as a result and so not entered liquidation BUT it became public knowledge by 2012 that a licence had been wrongly and possibly fraudulently granted then

  1. Rangers would have been fined the equivalent of their earnings from their participation in the UEFA competitions in 2011
  2. At least a two year ban from UEFA Competitions would have been imposed, but more likely three in view of repeated incorrect statements.
  3. The consequences of both would have been as damaging for Rangers survival as the real life consequences of losing to Malmo and Maribor in the qualifying rounds of the Champions and European Leagues.

Karma eh!

Interestingly in the UEFA COMPLIANCE AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITY REPORT 2015 – 2017 , the CFCB investigatory chamber recommended that both the Kazakhstan FA and Swiss FA as licensors

“pay particular attention to the adequate disclosure of the outstanding amounts payable towards other football clubs, in respect of employees and towards social/tax authorities, which must be disclosed separately;

Would the same recommendation apply to the Scottish FA with regard to their performance in 2011 and will the  SFA responses thereafter to shareholders in a member club be examined for compliance with best governance practice by the SFA Compliance Officer investigating the processing of the UEFA Licence in 2011?

This would be a welcome step in fully restoring trust in the SFA.

7185 COMMENTS


  1. Guys, im not going into the new/old club date and wasnt aiming to, it was a perfectly reasonable question about the accounts as both of them look different and may provide the answer to the questions set by barcabhoy on the FFP.

    If we can stick to the current and forward looking piece rather than going over old ground that we wont agree on.  Nobody will change their mind on the old/new club.

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  2. A further note .

    TRFC has had losses of £17M in the last 3 years . That’s €19.27 M at todays exchange rate . I estimate the loss for the current year will add a further £6M ( €6.8M ) to that making €27M in the last 4 years and still €17 m in the 3 years to end June 2018

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  3. TincksMay 11, 2018 at 13:57
    TheLawMan2 May 11, 2018 at 11:48 My understanding is that it will be the existing concert party who will underwrite it and that its simply a way to get more money in as Working Capital without increasing the loans, whilst increasing their shareholding.My understanding (and I am happy to be corrected) is that members of the concert party are unable to take part in a share offer whilst the TOP matter remains unresolved.  Happy to accept i am wrong about this if I am indeed incorrect on this matter. 
    ___________________

    I was going to write something similar as soon as I read that post, but decided to read on first, in case someone had beaten me to it04

    It is possible, perhaps likely, though, that Lawman2 was assuming that the TOP issue will be dealt with by King before it is too late for the concert party to take part in it in any way.

    Another problem for the concert party would be that, if they do underwrite the issue, they could be hit quite hard with a few million pounds to spend on unsubscribed shares. They haven’t seemed too keen to increase their equity for some time now, resulting in the Close Brothers secured loan, so it seems strange to me to suggest they would entertain the idea of being underwriters of a rights issue where the target shareholders are generally not high (financial) worth individuals, even if the TOP problem is solved. The most likely, in other circumstances, shareholders to subscribe would be the members of Club 1872, but they’ve all already put a large amount of their hard earned into the club, added to the fact that most will have committed themselves to a good few hundred pounds for Season Tickets – I doubt very much that now would be the chosen time for a rights issue if there wasn’t a very urgent need for those millions.

    Joining the dots with Barcabhoy’s excellent post, could it be that to get UEFA to ratify the Euro License, TRFC need those loans turned into equity by 30th June, hence the urgency? Could they have given assurances that the SFA are so keen to accept that they have taken it as good as done, while UEFA will sit back and watch before including TRFC in the Europa Cup draw?

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  4.  If Phil’s letter from Deloittes to Rangers is genuine, the football authorities have a duty of care to launch a full investigation. 

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  5. On the flim flam of who owns the debt, TRFC or RIFC, well I suspect that if UEFA looked at TRFC’s accounts in isolation, they’d see a rather large loan from RIFC – a separate, if related, company – along with one from Close Brothers. Unless it can be shown that RIFC have irrevocably declared it to be a gift, then it seems a silly point to make that UEFA might discount the directors’ (of RIFC) loans when judging the merits of TRFC’s application.

    Basically, it matters not a bit where the money RIFC have lent to TRFC comes from, any more than it does with Close Brothers. TRFC have borrowed lots of money to finance their qualification for European competition. Simples.

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  6. REALSHOCKS

    It is real.  And i agree it should be investigated.  I think you may be shocked what type of accounts the intimidating messages came from though. 

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  7. PADDY MALARKEY MAY 11, 2018 at 15:42
    So what’s Mr Levein bleating about (keeping it topical ). Hertz will finish 6th and have more points than Motherwell in 7th regardless of the outcomes of the final games . Trying too hard to be relevant ,imo .

    Paddy, if you’re referring to Levein commenting on the number of players injured and missing from Hearts’ final league game, then he really ought to be careful because there is a real danger of him moaning almost as much as Brendan Rodgers, who, after chastising the Tynecastle groundsman for trying to give Hearts a sporting advantage by growing his grass too long, last night complained about Killie parking the fire engine, all of this after his club had safely won the league title at a canter.

    With all the negativity displayed, perhaps Brendan might employ a 4-6-0 formation against Motherwell in the Cup Final. 10 

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  8. THELAWMAN2
    I see a pattern emerging here. “I confirmed it…” takes the prize and is fully worthy of a derisory smile 12. I actually can’t believe I read that on this site. 

    According to an excellent source… 

     I confirmed it.. 

    My understanding is that it… 

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  9. REALSHOCKS
    MAY 11, 2018 at 17:30
    If Phil’s letter from Deloittes to Rangers is genuine, the football authorities have a duty of care to launch a full investigation. 
    =====================================

    Deloitte would be obligated to share their reasons for cancelling their audit work for RIFC with the new, incoming auditors.

    Again, if the Deloitte letter is genuine, then I wonder how Campbell Dallas’ workforce feel about the decision to take on this new client… along with the – presumably – acceptable, associated risks to the staff themselves ?

    Do Deloitte value staff personal safety higher than Campbell Dallas ?

    Hmmm…

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  10. Re loans or capital contributions to TRFC.

    There is no doubt that TRFC acknowledges that the cash is received in the form of loans.

    From the TRFC accounts to 30 June 2017:
    The Company meets its day to day working capital requirements through existing cash facilities, investor loans and finance leases.

    The Board have discussed the Club’s forecast cash shortfall and have reached an agreement with New Oasis Asset Limited whereby they will provide additional loan facilities as necessary to meet the above requirements.

    Further to this, New Oasis Asset Limited and certain investors have agreed to extend their existing loan facilities to July 2019.

    There are interest-free, unsecured loans with investors amounting to £15.9 million, whilst the Company also has finance lease agreements totalling £0.5 million. 
     

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  11. Barcabhoy
    I’ll just copy my views to your post over from Twitter.
    When are these cowboys/spivs/criminals going to be refused a licence – period? Not UEFA but National.
    They mock our game.
    Barca: That analysis poses same question I had on reading UEFA rules. What exactly is an acceptable contribution? A loan that does not need repaid isn’t a loan. It’s a grant. A loan swapped for equity isn’t a loan after a swap. It’s the purchase of a share using a “u owe me.”
    But TRFC’s policy hits at the underlying principle and purpose of FFP which was to stop clubs going under. On that basis UEFA must comment on TRFC’S debt policy & advise SFA how they deal with it or UEFA step in and refuse the application or grant a conditional licence to force them to operate sustainably.
    Our SMSM seem blind to the danger TRFC’S foolish financial play (ffp) presents to Scottish football.
    And they call us Bampots
    https://twitter.com/Auldheid/status/994938605960343552 
    There is an alternative view on the calibre of SFA “accountants” and that is that by passing the buck to UEFA, who may refuse a licence or grant one on condition of a sustainable business plan being implemented, a stop is put to DK and his version of ffp.

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  12. Oh God,  At what point will all the Great posters on here, despite their profound arguments admit our  football establishment is corrupt.  In our generation the truth will never out!

    JC has said from the outset that the truth will come out eventually.  But while the big clubs including Celtic stay silent we are fecked.

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  13. HIGHLANDERMAY 11, 2018 at 18:05
    I think Steve Clarke is winning the media contest hands down .(wrote madia there !). His comments are of the half kidding/hale earnest mould , and I don’t think he suffers fools gladly . Not as eloquent as oor Archie , though !

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  14. Just a wee bit from the frighten rabbit. Talent or what! RIP. The family and all have been dignified and fantastic. Jimbo you must know them?

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  15. bordersdonMay 11, 2018 at 21:20
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki2FdTDhx7E Just a wee bit from the frighten rabbit. Talent or what! RIB The family and all have been dignified and fantastic. Jimbo you must kno
    ________________

    A young man gone much too soon, as you say a fine talent. A Hearts supporter who sang at the opening of the new stand, feel it so much more as a result. Maybe it’s because I’m getting old, but all these young people losing their lives when, from the outside, they seem to have so much to live for.

    RIP Scott, may your guitar keep you company, there’s some great guitarists gone before for you to jam with. What a session that would be.

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  16. About a month ago, a poster on CQN opened up about mental health issues.  It began a floodgate of posts about male similar problems.  Men tend to keep a secret.  Don’t talk.

    Please don’t.

    Tel.  116 623   The Samaritans.   UK & ROI

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  17. jimboMay 11, 2018 at 22:16 About a month ago, a poster on CQN opened up about mental health issues. It began a floodgate of posts about male similar problems. Men tend to keep a secret. Don’t talk.
    ————————————————————–
    What twists young men up jimbo? 

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  18. STEVIEBCMAY 11, 2018 at 18:25

    That letter is genuine, It’s on Companies House register for the 6th and 15th July 2015. Two letters from Deloitte. 

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  19. paddy malarkeyMay 11, 2018 at 20:38
    HIGHLANDERMAY 11, 2018 at 18:05 I think Steve Clarke is winning the media contest hands down .(wrote madia there !). His comments are of the half kidding/hale earnest mould , and I don’t think he suffers fools gladly . Not as eloquent as oor Archie , though !
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Clarkes honesty and his teams achievements after he took the job is a breath of fresh air. The man knows the script but plays it for his club. Robinson does it for Motherwell.
    Rodgers, Lenon, Levein snipe in their different ways.

    TRFC are left behind with Herr Traynor spouting propoganda. I even heard DJ saying on Radio Clyde that if the Chinese club “came back in for Morelos” they should take it. Derek they can’t come back in. They never existed son.

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  20. ChristyboyMay 11, 2018 at 22:35
    STEVIEBCMAY 11, 2018 at 18:25
    That letter is genuine, It’s on Companies House register for the 6th and 15th July 2015. Two letters from Deloitte. 
    _____________________________________________________
    So Campbell Dallas knew about that before takin on the RIFC & TRFC & “Club” Audit.

    What measures have they and Police Scotland put in place to avoid a repitition of threats to safegaurd staff?

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  21. Bordersdon,

    I wish I knew the answer to that mate.

    I think its something to do with expectations of what it means to be a man.

    Many men feel they fall short.

    I have often felt that that way, but now I don’t.  Thank goodness.

    Think of what Scott said. Give people a hug. Why shoud that be a problem for men?

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  22. I have to admit I feel lonely on here at times.

    I know a lot about Theology, Philosophy, Church History, and things.

    it doesn’t exclude non catholics or atheists. 

    I love everyone

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  23. ‘John McGinn a Rangers transfer target as Steven Gerrard looks to beat off English clubs to sign Hibs midfielder’.
    Give me strength. 
    This from the guy that has to wait until the Glasgow 1888 meets the 2012 at the national stadium to see them in the flesh. 
    The BBC recently announced an initiative to go into schools and teach children how to identify fake news. Allefknluia. We’ve been expected to swallow guff like this for years. 
    ‘Beat off English clubs’, one of which he quotes is in the EPL? Really? Apparently Neil is furious at the very threat of this. No wonder. The outcome of the Edinburgh club’s risk assessment pointed this lad straight in the direction of Club 2012. More so, his grandfather had the final say on this, egged on by his brothers. It’s a done deal. 
    I’m not for one minute trying to perpetuate the ideology that still exists here on the West Coast. I’m merely debating a logic that doesn’t exist amongst the MSM. 
    I’m all for keeping Scottish talent in Scotland, however in the name of our national game, surely the press should realise that any home bred player ‘on the up’ should stay well away from any club that has a reputation, albeit short and historically brief, for the ruination of careers and abandonment of contractual responsibilities. 
    It’s mythological that they have a squad of underachievers. In actual fact they have a squad of mediocracy that were once pumped up as the next best thing by the likes of the shameless typist that put that headline together. 
    John McGinn hasn’t so much as given club 2012 a glance. Don’t take my word for it. Just do the math. 

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  24. BOGS DOLLOXMAY 11, 2018 at 22:55

    Campbell Dallas also receive a deluge of complaints and abuse on a regular basis.  It comes with the territory of being an auditor of Rangers and the complainants are not Rangers fans.

    If we take a step back for a minute and consider what possible complaints would Rangers fans have with auditors who sign off their accounts each year?  In all my years on Social Media, ive never saw a single Rangers fan blame or moan or complain about auditors signing off the accounts.  Its probably the only thing my fellow fans dont moan about.

    I know for an absolute fact in Deloittes case, the abuse directed to them was about WHY they were signing off the accounts and what part they were playing in cheating.  That came directly from 1 of the partners who is involved in auditing 2 of my current firms.

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  25. Digressing…check out 6°n BREVET Saison. But only if you’re not planning getting up in the morning. 👌🏻
    Brewed in Aberdeen, swallied tonight….. in Berlin. 😜. (Its Hertha v RB Leipzig at the back of 2). 
    Home for Sunday 🏆

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  26. I find it totally bizarre that auditors would issue a letter to one of their clients worded in such a way as to point to peepil intimidation and the said client did not demand  clarification on who was doing the intimidating.

    So we are to believe that deloittes severed their ties with sevco because people were threatening them regards cheating in favour of Sevco and Sevco didn’t think to make that public .

    Why on earth would sevco wish to not speak out as IIRC the loss of their auditors was construed as a sign their business was not in the rudest of health .

    I’m sorry , I just don’t buy it 

     

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  27. slimjimMay 12, 2018 at 07:26 
    BOGSDOLLOX MAY 12 01.59Why should this be blocked?.What do you find so “Bizarre” regarding the post?. As TLM2 says the auditors signing off the accounts is hardly going to enrage the Rangers support is it?.Think for a second, who would be enraged and why?.
    _____________

    I cannot, for a moment, understand what causes people to act in a belligerent and threatening manner towards people who are only doing their job, but TRFC supporters do have a record for threats and intimidation, even physical assault, on even their own club’s employees, so it follows that the natural assumption would be that it was TRFC supporters in this case, too. It doesn’t make sense that they would do this towards employees of their club’s accountants, but neither does the threatening behaviour, from any source, either.

    One thing that points to it being your club’s supporters, though, is the lack of a ‘statement o’clock’ when the club received this letter. I cannot believe, not for one moment, that if it had been supporters of any other club, or clubs, doing the threatening, that Dave King would not have had Jim Traynor brief the media to continue the ‘victim’ and ‘haters’ narratives to the full. Charles Green set this style for the club from the word go, never letting the opportunity to push the ‘victim’ status pass by. 

    I’d say that this lack of any statement, or even a leak, from Ibrox weighs far heavier than any anonymous blogger saying ‘I know for an absolute fact…’ when trying to determine whether or not a support with a very high level of threats and intimidation in it’s short history made illogical threats and intimidation towards it’s club’s accountants. You’d have to believe that every TRFC supporter actually understands the role of accountants, and the laws and regulations they have to adhere to, before any of us could accept the kind of people who would send bullets and bombs through the post wouldn’t threaten them for simply doing their job, if they, those moronic idiots, view TRFC’s accountants as not producing accounts that make their club look healthier than Celtic. Remember, this is from a time long before King educated the faithful on the fact that making losses is a good thing!

    Only a fool, or a fellow bigot, would believe that a support that includes, to a very high number, people who would hate and assault people because of their religion, is not capable of doing similar to accountants because those morons just don’t understand that accountants can’t just produce the results some people with a false sense of entitlement believe they should do.

    Remember, we are talking about a support that includes the kind of people who would stab a young boy to death, just because of the football strip he wore. Anyone who thinks these kind of people wouldn’t threaten and intimidate, anyone, just because of a perceived failing in the club’s accounts, is living in cloud cuckoo land!

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  28. BILLYDUGMAY 12, 2018 at 07:42
    Why would other fans be enraged in 2013/14?

    _______________________________________________________________

    I should have used the word “etc” after cheating to be fair.  As for other fans being enraged, a quick glance at Social Media tells you fans have been on a constant rage about Rangers since way before 2014.

    But just for sake of clarity, the partner i spoke to said that they had had enough.  They were getting constant phone calls, letters and emails asking about going concerns, signing off the documents and general stuff about cheating etc………in the words of the offenders.

    I still fail to think why Rangers fans would be writing to them, especially when there is ZERO to be found on Social Media, or certainly the parts i read.

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  29. ALLYJAMBOMAY 12, 2018 at 08:14
    Only a fool, or a fellow bigot, would believe that a support that includes, to a very high number, people who would hate and assault people because of their religion, is not capable of doing similar to accountants because those morons just don’t understand that accountants can’t just produce the results some people with a false sense of entitlement believe they should do.
    Remember, we are talking about a support that includes the kind of people who would stab a young boy to death, just because of the football strip he wore. Anyone who thinks these kind of people wouldn’t threaten and intimidate, anyone, just because of a perceived failing in the club’s accounts, is living in cloud cuckoo land!

    _______________________________________________________________________

    I take extreme offence at that im afraid Ally given the implication that im either stupid or a bigot.

    Every football club has a variety of nuggets who follow their team.  Your own team for example had a guy who attacked Neil Lennon on the pitch because he hated him and admitted shouting a sectarian profanity at Lennon.  You can therefore excuse me for finding it difficult to find your statement anything but hypocritical about supporters hating and assaulting people because of their religion.

    What i wrote wasnt excusing or protecting any Rangers fans, some of which sit in the category i describe above, but merely passing on what i was told directly from 1 partner.  Perhaps he was telling me what he thought i wanted to hear but i do have a long relationship with him and we have spoken about many things over the year which went in direct contradiction to various other beliefs in the Rangers fan world, such as the responsible parties at Lloyds for stepping in when they did.  Ive also on previous occasions disclosed all of that much to the annoyance of my own fans who disagreed with me and didnt believe me. Back then, i would be found writing screeds of stuff telling them why they were wrong and very much being the minority in my views, just like on here.

    I think however that shows that no matter what side my views lie on, i speak my own mind and dont follow any crowd.

    To then introduce a tragic death to my statement is beyond the pale.  There have been hundreds of football assaults and casualties over the years across the Rangers/Celtic divide for football related stuff including may i add incidents as serious as multiple stabbings which didnt even involve a rival team.  This constant attempt to paint one team and one team only with this type of nonsense is perhaps the hardest thing for guys like me who just love the team, the banter and the football.  

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  30. No Shug.  That’s Rangers fans.  

    Im mindful of where this could go and will not post the opposing pictures and bow out on this topic having said my piece above as there is no value in going down the whole supporters thing route on here.  

    Its not the purpose of the site and should be left on other sites.

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  31. BILLYDUGMAY 12, 2018 at 08:49
    Maybe people who are making serious threats don’t post it on social media

    ______________________________________________________________

    I kind of agree with that, but you can get a flavour of peoples thoughts from Social Media and if we are all honest, Social Media nowadays is the main driver of everything.  When supporters are up in arms about something, you see and read about it all over Twitter and the individual club sites and some of it makes it onto sites like this.

    All im saying is that I cant remember anything like that back in the day which is why i was surprised to read about it at the time (this isnt a new thing of course as its been in the public for years) hence me asking my “Colleague” about it back in the day.

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  32. So the Rangers support did not contact Deloittes about them confirming details of the clubs ongoing substantial losses and genuine concerns over whether the business would be able to trade or not. Highlighting the doubts over whether the new club could even survive. No way they would lash out at that. 

    However while Rangers were in the lower divisions supporters of other teams were going out of their way to threaten the companies staff. Leading to the company deciding not to audit the accounts any more.

    Yes, that makes sense. 

    No absolute facts from me on this I’m afraid. I just know which one I choose to believe. Based on what we know, and the surrounding circumstances. 

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  33. What if certain peepil expected some assistance on gilding a lily or polishing a t**d and the auditors
    were reluctant to assist .
    Could that result in certain peepil using intimidation to get what they wanted .
    To assume it is random football supporters would be an error IMO .

    As for the (were sick of constant phone calls ) I would assume the sevco account would be worth quite a bit of money ,would Deloittes give the account up  just because their phone was ringing more than usual. Also how long would the phone calls ,e-mails and letters have continued ,a week ,a month 

    Sorry again but I’m not buying any of it .

      

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  34. Was it ‘other fans’ who burned out the Sevco team bus (as Ally McCoist alleged)? Not according to Police Scotland.
    Was it other fans who threatened to burn down East Fife’s ground? Or who threatened the three man commission after the same McCoist demanded to know their names?
    Was it other fans who threatened the American sugar daddy (Yanks go home) and inundated his office with threatening emails?
    Ask Mike Ashley who are the threatening fans. Ask the Easdales who threatened them.
    And as regards documented proof goes, did anyone ever catch sight of the proof that a Chinese club offered mullions for Morelos? This ‘proof’ caused a BBC journalist to apologise apparently but we’ve still to see it.
    Was it other fans who threatened over twenty accredited journalists who penned perceived critical articles of Sevco?
    Did we ever see Charles Green’s documented proof of interest from the Dallas Cowboys?
    Deeds, anyone?
    As regards Deloittes, the year before they quit, didn’t they give a warning that they weren’t happy with the accounts? Plenty of reason there for a strongly worded email or six, methinks.
    And given the fact that Sevco’s Ghost chairman himself issued threats, it would take a rather fertile imagination to conclude that ‘other fans’ were responsible for threats on this one occasion. It’s b/s.
    Does any other club in Scotland hire a rotund disseminator of lies to routinely fill the back pages of newspapers with everything from ‘inexactitudes’ to downright whoppers?
    I rest my case, your honour.

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  35.     It wisnae us….It was the old regime……Same old same old. 
    https://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2416568/deloitte-resigns-rangers-audit-brief-after-threats-to-staff
         I don’t see anything there that points the finger at any other club, other than the Ibrox club, in this statement from James Blair. 
        I note that Deloittes chose to resign AFTER completion of the audit. Are we to believe fans of other clubs were aware of confidentialities that existed between Deloittes and Sevco, BEFORE the audits completion?
        How would anyone other than Deloittes and Sevco staff, been aware of audit details?
        Somebody is having their chain pulled, and it’s not me. 

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