Look Back to Look Forward – The Scottish Football Monitor

Look Back to Look Forward

Everyone on this site has football experiences, views, stories and opinions. Everyone also wants things to be better in the future too. These are bonds that make us who we are and this forum what it is.

I’ll share a few experiences with you now.

I will never forget an impromptu and inspirational 60 minute Q. and A. masterclass by Davie MacParland to a group of relative youngsters at Hampden in 1975 after Scottish Unis had played a friendly with his team.

It was “over the moon Brian” time for me on finding a £5 note in my shoe. This was after I played my first game (unexpectedly) as an S form in the Highland League when my club’s  Aberdeen-based players had been held up by a road incident.

So happy and corrupted was I that I never questioned the widespread practice of giving money to amateur players thereafter so I’m part of the problem.

I also sat next to a young Jim Leyton who came to Butchart to watch himself on a match video after he had let in two goals when we dumped Deveronvale (where he was on loan) out of the Aberdeenshire Cup.  It was the very early days of video and Jim had never seen himself on a tv before.

Every person in the SFM community will have equally diverse and interesting experiences and I’m going to share one more with you now in a little more detail.

In the mid 90s I was given an amazing insight into how Scottish football really worked. In many ways it hasn’t changed much since.

Back then I was part of a small group brought in to help find funding for the upgrade of Tynecastle with the urgent need to construct three new stands. At the time it was a massive requirement for a very financially challenged organisation and at a push there were potentially just about enough pots of monies available from several sources to trigger the investment from the Football Trust and squeak over the line.

The most critical pot was mobilising the fans.

My role was to find a way of getting them to come aboard working with some fine lifetime Hearts fans like the late Alex Kitson so it would all look like a Hearts Community rather than a Mercer initiative.

The then, colourful Hearts majority owner was under constant pressure on other fronts at the time.

The team was not really performing with relatively new manager Jim Jeffries trying to get best out of predecessor Tommy Mclean’s mixed bag of old pros and kids. Making things worse was a growing, highly critical and very vocal consortium of local business people trying to get Mercer out (and themselves in).

I guess you could say in today’s parlance that they were RHM and civil war was very much happening down Gorgie way.

Anyway I can’t now recall all the detail and apologies if my memories have fused a little but a key AGM type meeting for Hearts shareholders at Ingliston was coming up and there was an agenda that looked like it might hurt “The Chairman” as Wallace liked to be called.

Never any flies on him though, he had seen the danger signs and was ready in his own way.

He turned up with his trusted few and simply yet quite brilliantly hijacked the negative agenda and ignored the real issues. He didn’t have a solution for them and couldn’t implement the changes that were in reality needed but quite simply he kicked all the trouble into the long grass.

He did this because he fundamentally understood that most shareholders in the room were just ordinary football fans and wanted nothing more than to be able to talk about football the game, Hearts their club, who they were due to play next and who would be playing.

It was that simple.

Mercer’s message to all that night was “Yes things have been tough but our best possible future is with me”.

He rammed this home by confidently telling the assembled body that Hearts were on the up because we had a new manager who needed time and then blew everyone away by announcing he just signed three amazing new players for them, Giles Rousset, Bruno Pasquale and Hans Eskilsson. After the applause and mayhem died down he had won.

Bruno and Rousset were newsworthy in any Scottish football context one being a French International and the other an ex Juventus tough guy with a EUFA and a couple of Coppa Italia winners medals.

Oh and Eskilsson had amazing hair.

Mercer’s simple bit of insight, showmanship, brinksmanship, call it what you like, led to the survival of his regime.

In a parallel maybe to what the SFA did after their meeting with Craig at the Hotel Du Vin in Glasgow, Mercer had enough time to be ready for the trouble he knew was coming and used his power to ignore the real issues and the detail and move on with a big gamble.

Looking back Wallace got a lot right .

He understood what the majority of ordinary football fans wanted. He’d also learnt that good press was needed and came from feeding the football writers enough tasty exclusives so they’d look after him in a symbiotic relationship, the kind of relationship that remains much the same today.

Even back then in the days when there were less full-colour pages pre-allocated to certain teams to fill and  more able journalists to fill them, the sports pages were about game reports and gossip rather than insight.

The packs of hacks all craved being handed tasty semi-exclusive stories.

It was and ever is thus and in those days the Daily Record was a wee gem with circulation nearer 700K than the 200K-ish today and amazingly all its costs were covered by it’s advertising revenue alone. The proud boast of Endell Laird was the purchase price was pure profit.

With hindsight Wallace may only have postponed the inevitable campaign by the RHM rebels that night at Ingliston. History tells us that the Robinson/Deans rebellion eventually forced their chance. They did have to dig much deeper financially than they ever wanted when their time eventually came, and soon fell out too, but that’s another story.

Wallace’s long grass was just never going to be deep enough to hide the issues he wanted to ignore but to his credit on his watch the stadium was upgraded and the first Scottish Cup since 1956 was paraded to the fans.

Mr. Mercer was an operator who like others before and since could see personal and business value in owning a club.

He cultivated friendly football writers.

He learned that the SFA could be difficult to deal with but much less so when you placed people on their various management boards. That was key to the inner power sanctums and brought you at best influence and at worst early warnings.

He may have been autocratic but knew you needed powerful friends at other clubs too and was always close with David Murray in particular.

So what has this little piece of retrospection and a handful of Finloch football stories got to do with a blog on SFM?

Last week I met Big Pink for the first time over a few coffees.

It was like meeting an old friend in the pub because of all the stuff we’ve lived through and shared over the last 5 or so years.

We talked about stuff and traded stories and opinions on life, football and about SFM what it does and what we are.

We got on to the subject of it’s future and with my business background he asked me to consider a piece for the blog about where the SFM, our fledgling business might go from here.

I maybe agreed too hastily because I have found it challenging to gather and spell out my thoughts.

So this is very much a starting couple of steps to bring in the SFM minds and set up future discussions following this blog and when we meet in Perth in April.

My starting point was to first consider what we are today.

It’s a personal view but to me SFM is a valued medium I come to most days. It’s for when I want to find out or to discuss what is happening.

It is populated with a bunch of people with different backgrounds, skills and insights, is always polite and often very funny.

I’d actually like to see more headline blogs because I enjoy them but our biggest value will always be analysis discussion and good humour.

SFM is fundamentally different to the MSM back pages that still offer us all a mono diet of whatever day-to-day gossip they have been spoon-fed by the Level 9’s of this world or made up and maybe embellished with a random phone call for a quote.

Yes their world is declining and will inevitably see fundamental restructure and change but that change has in reality nothing to do with how they cover and will continue to cover Scottish football.

I’d even posit (to use a wee word I’ve learned from the excellent JJ site I visit sometimes) that the red tops currently see their style of football coverage as a way of slowing their inevitable declines because it delivers the difficult to reach male audience their advertisers crave access to.

As a spectator I’d say the MSM in Scotland mostly seem to suffer from a polarised demographic focus/ bias too but that can never excuse their revisionism or the Spiers and Haggerty episodes we’ve just witnessed.

There is one benefit though. One you maybe hadn’t thought about from all the dreadful MSM football reportage.

The stuff they collectively generate enables all of us to have daily conversations with friends and strangers without actually saying anything about anything.

It gives us our daily top-up for the international language of football minutiae we all converse in every day.

I’ve been able to speak it fluently since I was in my teens. You know the kind of thing – the ins and outs, the ups and downs, the comings and goings and the toings and froings.

The good news, the bad news the made-up news – its all part of being involved with a team or indeed just being a football fan and it’s all conversation for the males of our species.

There are plenty of places I can and do get access to that kind of stuff but SFM isn’t and never has been a source.

I quickly found out that most of my pals don’t want to talk about side letters in the pub on a Friday, or the need for asterisked titles because they are more interested in tomorrow’s match and who will be out of contract at the end of the season.

Without being disrespectful in any way I think they are cut from the same wood as the majority of Mr. Mercer’s Hearts shareholders and if I’m honest part of me is too.

That has given our administrators and clubs too easy a ride.

Beyond the gossip it is fair to say in the last 40 or 50 years football has changed beyond all recognition.

It has become a source of power and money and as we know proverbially and in real life power can corrupt and money can be the root of all-evil.

The stuff happening at FIFA now can be no surprise to any fair-minded fan and I’d be inclined to think that there have been finagled decisions at the top for longer than the current stewardship of Mr. Blatter.

Way longer.

Football-land is a dirty world. A world where all the transparency is for show and real stuff has always been controlled and rewarding for those in the right places.

Closer to home football in Scotland is no different. Power and money have been the origins of our own North of the Border soap opera saga.

Its sometimes been very funny, often been entertaining too but is ultimately tragic and a sad indictment on our country.

Being Scotland nothing is ever as simple as it should be.

We started from a unique kind of place where for over a century we have had to live with an unhealthy, quasi-tribal, two-club duopolistic domination of all things football including the fans, the trophies, the money, the media attention and the administrators controlling our game.

The stark reality of 2016 is our biggest club/economy now finds its real ambitions thwarted, potentially forever, by its location in our restrictive league structure. It has nowhere currently to go and annoyingly the biggest league in the world is just over the border and part of the same country in political terms.

This is a destabilising influence on our game that won’t go away until change allows the next evolution.

Our second biggest economy as we now know had to cheat a little to keep up, post Fergus, and is now making its way back to the top end but with some truly nuclear baggage that I guess we still really only know the half of. Nothing will be simple in its return to what we’re told everyday is its rightful place. It too is a latent destabilising influence awaiting like a grumbling volcano.

What depresses me is the fact that the much-vaunted return of our dysfunctional duopoly is not a formula to recreate  the European success we all took for granted for so long. Those days will never return.

The decline of the Scottish giant that was and is Rangers has dominated our thoughts because it encapsulates so much more than what is wrong with our game.

It is a huge business and establishment fall from grace. A shocking story that has become an elephant in the room to our politicians, our media and many of our fellow fans and is still playing out to deafening silence in some quarters.

In the manic run up to the decline of David Murray’s club we benefitted from insights from the seminal RTC and were bombarded with mass denials from almost everywhere else.

We witnessed the £1 sale to Craig Whyte, the subsequent McCoist European failure, the eventual slide into messy liquidation with tax issues etc.

Our administrators failed us all the way through because they had a different agenda.

Our MSM didn’t want to know partly because it involved more than regurgitating press releases and partly because it was real news for real reporters and not back pages gossip.

Their editors failed us there too, big time.

Now the revisionism and invention of the post-liquidation ephemeral club and company scenarios has been creative to say the least.

I remember Mr. Traynor’s  initial headline and smile how he and others are now wading in a contradictory swamp of their own making. It’s all confusion when it needn’t be.

I only know the kind of stuff that really happened because of this site and its RTC predecessor.

Four or five years on and I think these guys (SFA, SPFL) acted like Wallace Mercer did at Ingliston and ran roughshod over process to “win”.

These well paid admin staff were never off-piste though and our clubs share complicity for their actions to varying degrees.

If I was Regan’s or Doncaster’s devil’s advocate I could just about comprehend that they acted because they feared for their TV revenues. The prospect of being without half of their duopoly ace card and the blue fans scared them and they were mandated by the clubs to maintain the status quo.

I don’t mean all the clubs but if we look at the key committee structures we’ll easily see who were in that inner sanctum at the time. They collectively decided to throw their rulebook out the window and there is no grass long enough to bury their collective actions because truth always outs.

Cast yourself back a few years not long before the St Valentine’s day 2012 news when the push was all for a 10 club league.

I remember Stewart Milne aggressively trying to sell us all a 10-club league because of the TV revenue it delivered (to the few).

At that time there seemed to be a collective “TV Gold Fever” prevailing in the cabal of top club chairmen that makes the real decisions and tells our administrators what to do.
Luckily they failed.

They nearly failed again too in 2012 with their tawdry 5 way agreement  and we all owe a debt of gratitude to the late Turnbull Hutton whose personal integrity, bloody-mindedness and leadership meant a significant change to the premeditated 5 way plan that our top clubs had all signed off.

Since then we’ve all suffered from Armageddon and long may it stay.

SFM has been at the forefront of the last five years. A place where fans from all the clubs come together to question, analyse, give insight, balance, consciousness on all aspects of the meandering road that has been this story so far.

It’s all recorded on our archives somewhere too. We’ve noted and discussed the following and more –

  • Two different signatures from the same club on the 5-way agreement
  • Two different and concurrent memberships of the SFA
  • Players TUPE-ing for free and no lawyers getting rich in trying to get them back
  • Pre-season games being cancelled because of registration and insurance issues
  • The Brechin game coming too soon for the paperwork
  • The entry-round in The Ramsdens Cup for the old club or is it the new club?
  • Record crowds, an even more aggressive songbook
  • Ian Black getting a surprise call-up and a bit of a game to legitimise  The New Rangers with their first cap
  • Millions raised from a gullible city and desperate fans but still several last gasp saves needed to avoid new financial stramashes
  • A charity that pays for holidays in America
  • Quasi-legal stuff with dodgy parameters for questionable enquiries like Nimmo Smith
  • Bryson and his logic that Spartans could and should have used to stay in the cup
  • A “Hopelessly Conflicted Chairman” re-elected and a new one who has fitted in seamlessly
  • Real legal stuff like HMRC appeals, and phrases like side-letters
  • Charlotte Fakes and maybe even Fake Charlotte Fakes
  • Fit and proper persons running our clubs
  • Recorded conversations
  • Onerous contracts
  • Metaphysical concepts of what football clubs in our courts with big bucks being spent on our behalf by our administrators

There is and has been a whole lot more and more to come on the schedules too.

How much of this would I have found on our MSM?

Very little – so thanks to those who go the extra mile for us including John Clark, EasyJambo and others at the courts,  Phil who will never go away, James Doleman and others too including JJ – all playing blinders where the hacks don’t dare.

Finally fast-forward to today.

Most Scottish fans probably know a little about the stuff I’ve touched upon and we’ve debated in depth. Not enough though.

But we have Darryl Broadfoot who is the SFA so we can all sleep rest assured each night.

 

Going forward we must address how we communicate as a medium to spread the word.

Ask yourself – Is what we do more important than knowing Rangers signed Dean Windass’s son from Accrington Stanley on a free because he’s going to play for England one day and stuff like that?

I’d say it is different although both have a place.

Our challenge is to create more impact with ours.

In finishing I have one serious starting proposal to make as a community but first a thank you.

Thank you to all the blog writers and posters because we have collectively created a site where real stuff can be dissected and discussed politely and in a non-partisan way.

Well done to the mods in particular and to our community In general

 

My simple proposal as our first step forward is to start a Wikipedia style library of the facts and keep it on our site.

Dates, happenings, people and all the stuff that will not allow any of it to stay buried forever in the long grass. The kind of detail that is in Auldheid’s amazing and resolute Resolution 12.

Chapter and verse whys and wherefores with dates and names.

 

This will achieve three things.

  • It will create bedrock for us as a trusted media channel whatever we decide to become.
  • It will put stuff factually into the public domain forever.
  • It will contradict any highly paid revisionists trying to change what really happened for their own agendas into the future.
Finloch

Finloch

Finloch has been a member of SFM since it's inception. A Hearts fan, he also penned the blog, Look Back to Look Forward

1,978 Comments
  1. essexbeancounter


    REDLICHTIEAPRIL 1, 2016 at 11:44
    I assume that the ‘loan’ is then repaid to the trustees in the Isle of Man or wherever.
    So what would happen next? Does the money sit orphaned in the IoM?
    ==============================
    Redlichtie…I am labouring under the impression that all Trusts/Sub-trusts had been closed, as much for “strategic” legal purposes as any tax planning ploy…so even if any recipient with a guilty conscience 09  felt like doing so, whatever their motivation, it would be impossible at this stage.

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  2. woodstein

    woodstein


    “The tax man will want every penny in tax regardless of what the player/beneficiary does.”
     
    As Allyjambo says the loan, will be treated by the new legislation as “disguised remuneration”
     
    Let’s say for arguments sake someone gets an EBT for £2.5 million.
    Requests a loan  from the trust,  of £2M and spends it.
    No income tax or NIC has been paid.
    New legislation (regardless of court ruling (EBT)) will treat this as income.
    Tax due (say) 40%?  £800,000 + NIC + any penalty?
    Remember this settlement would require to be made before 5th April 2019 or the roof will fall in.
     
    Disclaimer I am not a tax expert .
    As Homunclus says the legislation is not yet in place and a consultation process is underway according to the budget notes.

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  3. oddjob

    oddjob


    The First Tier Tribunal and The Upper Tier Tribunal both decided that a large number of the EBTs were “loans”. HMRC disagreed and appealed to the Court of Session, who, in applying “common sense ” approach, judged that the payments were part of a payment for work done.
    BDO appealed to the Inner Court of Session for leave to appeal to the Supreme Court, and were successful.
    As yet there is no indication that BDO will make that appeal.
    If they do, and  the Supreme Court overturns the COS judgement, the original decision by the FTT comes back into play, and the payments classed as loans.
    The recent budget introduces measures to combat the use of the EBTS schemes either way, more or less following the COS “common sense” approach.
    The original appeal was made by MI. Now BDO are involved, why them and not the Liquidators of MI, I am unable to say.

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  4. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    tangoedApril 1, 2016 at 11:47 14 0  Rate This 
    HOMUNCULUSAPRIL 1, 2016 at 10:32  tangoedApril 1, 2016 at 09:10 —————————————- I can think of no reason why the SFA would be responsible for Rangers or Rangers’ players avoiding payment of tax which was due. Though I can see how some people might be looking for yet another reason for it being someone else’s fault. The club have been found guilty, by an independent tribunal, of hiding these payments from the SFA and has been fined for doing so. ———————————————————————————————— I can think of 2 reasons why the SFA should be held responsible for allowing a club a 15 year spree of tax evasion and avoidence.Campbell Ogilvie and Andrew Dickson were both employees of the SFA,so the SFA did know what was going on because 2 of their employees took part in these schemes…

    ===================================================

    Firstly, I have never seen any accusation of tax evasion, by anyone in this case. The Court of Session has upheld HMRC’s appeal in relation to the tax avoidance which Rangers and it’s employees benefited from.  Bearing in mind tax evasion is a criminal offence we might not want to go down that particular road, I really don’t see how it helps the blog or those who run it.

    Secondly, even if the SFA had employees who through previous employment had knowledge of EBT schemes, or benefited from those schemes themselves, how can one know that they told the SFA about them. I am sure plenty of employees, of plenty of businesss are aware of things which they do not tell their employers. We cannot just automatically blame the employer for that. Indeed the emplyees may have been breaching commercial confidentiality by passing on the information.

    Thirdly, I can still think of no reason why the SFA would have any liability whatsoever for tax which was unpaid by either Rangers or it’s employees. You may think that the SFA “should be held responsible for allowing a club a 15 year spree of tax evasion and avoidence” I can see absolutely no basis for that whatsoever. Neither can i see any basis for the SFA being in any way liable for the tax which was avoided.

    We can hold them responsible for many things, indeed we do. However as far as I am concerned Rangers and Ranger’s employees cheating the tax system is not one of them. Rangers failing to declare that cheating to them (DOS payments re euro licence, EBT payments re side letters / players incorrectly registered) and the SFA taking insufficient action with regards that is what should really concern us.

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  5. wottpi


    From Hector’s House

    Loan made by a third party – employee benefit trustIt is not uncommon for a third party, such as an employee benefit trust (EBT), to make a loan to a beneficiary who is also an employee of the employer which is associated with the EBT. It is sometimes suggested that the loan is not an “employment-related loan” (EIM26113) because the definition of that term does not include a loan provided by a third party.
    Whilst it is true that the definition includes no reference to a third party loan provider, HMRC does not accept that the loan is not an employment-related loan. The definition of “employment-related loan” includes a loan made by an employee’s employer. As “making” a loan includes “in any way facilitating” a loan, if the employer provides the money to fund the EBT, the employer is regarded as making the loan.
    Consequently for the purposes of the loan benefit rules, the EBT is ignored and the loan is treated as made directly by the employer to the employee. It follows that the loan is an employment-related loan.

    It then seems by following onto other links in Hector’s House that if the loans are loans, as some have been already been admitted, then tax may be due 

    The amount chargeable is called the cash equivalent of the benefit of the loan. This is the difference between:
    the interest that would have been payable if the borrower had been required to pay interest on the loan at the appropriate official rate (or rates) for the tax year concerned andthe amount of interest actually paid by the borrower for the same tax year.The use of official rates prevents arguments over what would be a commercial rate of interest on an equivalent loan.
    Official rates are prescribed by the Treasury by means of Statutory Instrument.
    There are tables of official rates at EIM26104 to EIM26106.
    Detailed instructions on how to calculate the cash equivalent are atEIM26200 onwards.

    The official rates appear to average out at 5% for the period the EBT’s were running. As no interest or payback was associated with the EBTs then 5% it is.
    Therefore even if the EBTs were viewed as being loans it may be that Hector will still try and get his 5% back being he has probably not gone down that route to date because of pursuing the Big Tax case where the argument is that the loans were not loans but contractual payments.
    A lot less that the potential 40% plus interest and penalties but still a Plan B that may effect some players and officials.

    It would be interesting to know if any of those EBT loans recipients where it has been agreed the loans were legitimate, have had to stump up a benefits in kind charge.

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  6. naegreetin


    Re : EBT Beneficiaries

    I understand the Manager of Clyde FC recently sold his hotel interests in the Clyde Valley – maybe coincidental . Still has other business interests in the area to sell should things get a bit heated with HMRC .

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  7. ianagain

    ianagain


    Nice to see two wins for Jim Spence in two days over RST.
    Ipso finds The Courier. Ebts illegal comment to be true.Today BBC backing “the club that died”.
    04

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  8. slimshady61


    ESSEXBEANCOUNTERAPRIL 1, 2016 at 12:37
    ————————–
    EBC, apart from Murray, I suspect the other 86 recipients of EBT monies have long since spent them so it may be academic anyway, but you can’t just “close a trust”, so in theory they could repay before 6 April 2019. Any trust I have seen has generally been open-ended or with a 99 year term.
    After April 2019, and assuming most have not repaid anything, I suspect HMRC will have brought in some sort of variation on Accelerated Payments Notices (which only apply to DOTAS schemes at present) so the beneficiaries will be issued with those and invited to pay up within 30 days or be taken to court.
    Probably the most interesting question so far as Rangers is concerned is whether and to what extent non-UK resident individuals will be pursued. Under the present APN regime, I have a German client – a peripatetic professional and never UK resident – who engaged in a DOTAS scheme (before he knew me obviously) and he was issued with such a notice last spring, sent to his home in Germany.
    Because he wants to be able to visit the UK in future to carry out his professional engagements without fear, he has paid up without a whimper, rather than face a “Hear My Song” scenario. (For those not familiar with Josef Locke, see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear_My_Song or better still get the film – it’s very funny – with David McCallum as the tax inspector).
    What the likes of Flo, Advocaat & Novo will want advice on is what risk they run if they try to enter the UK at some later point. 
    Whatever, the procession of ex-Rangers players being taken to court and or made bankrupt will bring home once and for all the blatant cheating that was carried on between 1998 and 2008.

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  9. jimbo

    jimbo


    Jim Spence cleared by the BBC Trust after complaints from TRFC fans for saying ‘the old club that died’ amongst other things.

    At the end of the BBC Trust report an interesting wee snippet:
    “She also noted that the editor of sport at BBC Scotland had acknowledged the comments by Mr Spence could have been better phrased within the live piece and had apologised for any offence caused. ”

    Apologised? For telling the truth?07

    Kind of confirms what many have suspected about the BBC Scotland Sport’s editorial policy.  Jump through hoops to promote the continuity theory.

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  10. wottpi


    Looking back at my earlier post. It may be that Hector is in a win win situation of the benefit in kind charge was followed.

    This is the difference between:the interest that would have been payable if the borrower had been required to pay interest on the loan at the appropriate official rate (or rates) for the tax year concerned and the amount of interest actually paid by the borrower for the same tax year.

    If nowt was paid back, as seems to be the case,  then would the 5% interest be applied against the outstanding loan amount for each relevant tax year.

    Therefore Mr Ogilvie has an £90k EBT  from when he left Rangers in 2005. 5% = £4.5k  per annum, times ten years to the current tax year =£45k.
    I could be barking up the wrong tree but what fun if that is correct.07

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  11. Smugas


    HomunculusApril 1, 2016 at 10:32
    I can think of no reason why the SFA would be responsible for Rangers or Rangers’ players avoiding payment of tax which was due. Though I can see how some people might be looking for yet another reason for it being someone else’s fault.The club have been found guilty, by an independent tribunal, of hiding these payments from the SFA and has been fined for doing so.
    I think we really need to go back to the basic position. Rangers lied to the SFA (by omission) because they had no option. They were making contractual payments through an EBT which was at best tax avoidance. They could hardly then declare the same payments to the SFA without their whole scheme falling apart, as it has anyway. They deliberately cheated on tax and as a direct result lied to the SFA.
    This is a matter for the club and for the beneficiaries.

    I make no apology for going back to one of RTC’s fundamental premise: That to win one (the BTC) was to lose the other (the registration case most commonly now referred to as LNS).  To win the BTC was to confirm the existence of the side letters.  But to do so was to confirm their existence and hence non declaration of player earnings.  If he/she would permit me I would now add a further premise, that in the highly unlikely event that the BTC was ultimately found in MG’s favour AND, despite the foregoing, that somehow, miraculously, incredibly, LNS could also find in favour of Rangers certainly with regards to titles etc if not compensation (however paltry), then at the very least those in charge, guarding the guards as it were, then had to fall on their swords for reasons of incompetence if nothing else.

    You simply cannot have Rangers apparently continuing as they were***, the ex-players continuing as they were, LNS clarifying that apparently 250k unpaid is “enough and lets move on” and all of the office bearers still continuing in position as if nothing has happened.

    *** That statement is not to be confused with a Rangers not continuing to be.  40,000 fans can continue to go and sing their songs at their 11 men in blue.  That is not the immediate point to hand.   

    And a quick mention for Highlander’s letter.  Pure belter!

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  12. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    SLIMSHADY61APRIL 1, 2016 at 15:46
    “…What the likes of Flo, Advocaat & Novo will want advice on is what risk they run if they try to enter the UK at some later point. Whatever, the procession of ex-Rangers players being taken to court and or made bankrupt will bring home once and for all the blatant cheating that was carried on between 1998 and 2008.”
    =================
    Interesting post SS.
    I – and I’m sure most other Bampots would agree – that the ‘procession’ mentioned above should indeed transpire.
    My only reservation is that in most actions wrt RFC/TRFC nothing seems to go the way a reasonable Bampot would expect!

    I am ‘absolutely’ not a tax/trust expert, and my only first hand experience was to politely reject the frequent approaches from agencies wanting to set me up with a similar EBT-type trust as a self-employed contractor. I was not so much concerned with a potential, long-term tax liability, but more uncomfortable about having to sign away control to the Trustees.

    Anyway, hope you are right per above: mibbees assorted ex-RFC players/managers are already busily hiding/transferring their assets, and/or relocating outside the UK ?  
    …and can they trust their WAGS ?! 22

    View Comment
  13. tangoed

    tangoed


    HOMUNCULUSAPRIL 1, 2016 at 14:28
    ———————————–
    A wee change of tact here because i agree that the SFA are not liable for the unpaid tax of a club within their membership.What i am suggesting is that the players sue the erchies off the SFA for bad governance (or malpractice or something) as it was 2 of there workers who assured these players that signing these contracts would be ok.

    As far as i can i see these guy’s signed contracts with rangers partly on the strength that people who work for the national association (The governers of the rules of scottish fitba) told them that all is above board.Did CO or AD tell the players that they would be withholding part of the their contracts (Side Letters) from the authorities? 

    Did they tell the players that by withholding part of their contracts they would’nt be properly registered?
    If not why not,it’s not as if Ogilvie or Dickson did’nt know the rules of the SFA,they worked there and this why i believe the players may have a case for taking the SFA to court.

    As for tax evasion,i’m under the illusion that HMRC will include the DOS EBTS in these new laws to be drafted,was the wee tax case not evasion?.If i’m wrong on that then apologies from me..

    View Comment
  14. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    slimshady61
    April 1, 2016 at 15:46
    Probably the most interesting question so far as Rangers is concerned is whether and to what extent non-UK resident individuals will be pursued. Under the present APN regime,
    ———————————-
    Will we see ex rangers employees who had an EBT move out of the UK?
    And will the ex rangers employees that had EBT’s who live abroad, now not be  able to visit the UK in future to carry out his professional puff piece for the SMSM the next time an (old firm )game comes around?05

    View Comment
  15. justshatered

    justshatered


    Interesting to see the story about the EBT’s rearing its head again.
     
    Is this not the EBT’s that we were assured, by our intrepid media, would have no effect on the players and that they would not be required to pay back a penny to the exchequer?
     
    Although this law is still at the discussion phase it is a double problem for those who had an EBT. If BDO lose the appeal in the Supreme Court then they’ll be chased by the tax man, yet if the appeal is successful Hector will still be after them if this law comes to pass. I hope Hector is keeping a close eye on any money being transferred abroad from the recipients.
     
    Yet again however our media are well off the case thinking that HMRC will allow already well paid individuals away with a breach such as this.
     
    These are the very same news organisations that keep telling us that the court case over the transfer of assets to SEVCO will have no effect on the current business. They couldn’t be wrong again could they?
     
    I mean if someone steals a car, gives it a paint job, new seats, new stereo, replaces the number plate, and sells it to a third party but the car is discovered to be stolen what happens? I’m pretty sure that it reverts back to the person who initially and still does own the vehicle.
    No that could not happen……………………… could it.

    View Comment
  16. Den


    Many of the EBT recipients will be sorry that they ever agreed to the arrangement. 
    From the FTTT it can be seen that some of the players took professional advice from Lawyers and Accountants, these advisers and the agents involved may be first port of call when it comes to players looking to be indemnified. Rangers provided some (most) of them with side letters so they could claim from the Creditors pot.
    Even if it is accepted that the SFA hierarchy knew, or should have known, there is no suggestion that they advised players on the merits of taking an EBT as opposed to straight salary, this avenue would not be worth pursuing.
    I was interested in the suggestion that the Trusts had been closed down. I would expect that to do so, it would be necessary to unwind the trusts and either pass the loans to another vehicle or pass the title on to the person who has borrowed it. If the loan is written off it would be taxable income. I suspect that the offshore Trustees will not just walk away because they have outstanding loans and as a backstop can claim their fees from the Players estate on his death.
    It appeared to me that Dr Poon reverted to being an Auditor and checked the charges levied by the Trustee (Trident). What is apparent is that MIH/ Rangers were paying £1000 per annum plus other fees, considering that they had 100 trusts then it would be worth holding out.
    Since MIH and Rangers are both in liquidation I would assume that the fees are not being paid so the Trustee will be adding them to the charges on the Trusts.
    The loans from the trust were intended to be for the lifetime of the player or employee and repayable on his death. the repayment was to be from his estate to the Trust which would then distribute the funds to the beneficiaries (net of costs and Trustee Fees)and then close the trust.
    Although it was the intention that the loans would never be repaid it was foreseen that the Trustee may call in the loan as in the FTTT dissenting opinion para 140 where Rangers agreed to accept full responsibility in respect of the repayment. So it would appear that the loans could be called in and the recipients would be forced to claim pennies in the pound from the Creditors pot. 
    In my opinion those who received fairly modest amounts are going to be out of pocket and hopefully they haven’t been on night out with Chick Y. those who received a large amount can take their chances but should hold reserves just in case. Overseas resident recipients can rest easier if they don’t want to come to the UK. 
    Of course, as a taxpayer I have no sympathy with their plight, they all knew what they were doing and were being extremely well rewarded.
     

     

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  17. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    TANGOED
    APRIL 1, 2016 at 17:03
    5 0 Rate This

    HOMUNCULUSAPRIL 1, 2016 at 14:28
    ———————————–
    A wee change of tact here because i agree that the SFA are not liable for the unpaid tax of a club within their membership.What i am suggesting is that the players sue the erchies off the SFA for bad governance (or malpractice or something) as it was 2 of there workers who assured these players that signing these contracts would be ok.

    ========================================

    My last reply on this, to avoid the ongoing circular discussion getting any worse and with deference to the owners of the blog and it’s readers.

    None of what you have said makes the SFA responsible for the tax avoidance which Rangers and it’s employees benefited from.

    With regards suing the SFA, I can’t think what anyone could sue them for, and what evidence they would base their claim on.

    “…as it was 2 of there workers who assured these players that signing these contracts would be ok.”

    You have the advantage of me on that, I was not aware it was the case. However even if it is true I still can’t see how anyone could sue the SFA. What did they do wrong, in relation to this specific matter.

    That is all.

    View Comment
  18. woodstein

    woodstein


    Lots of questions on what is likely to happen as a result of  Budget 2016.
    This might help, at least ii will be available on TSFM pages.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tackling-disguised-remuneration-avoidance-schemes-overview-of-changes-and-technical-note/technical-note
    This document  outlines. 8 chapters which are listed on the first page
    Contents
    1.      
    Chapter 1 – overview of changes for scheme users
    2.       Chapter 2 – what the government intends to achieve
    3.       Chapter 3 – background
    4.       Chapter 4 – tackling the continued use of schemes
    5.       Chapter 5 – tackling the use of schemes to date
    6.       Chapter 6 – additional technical details
    7.       Chapter 7 – similar avoidance schemes
    8.       Chapter 8 – next steps
    These lay out the background, goals, current and future position and amendments etc to existing tax regulations, and consultation which may be required.
    This may have been posted already, if so just ignore.

    View Comment
  19. ianagain

    ianagain


    Been archive browsing.
    Anybody mind his lady?
    Back in Aug 15. Allegedly company sec under CG.
    I wonder if anyone is in touch with her these days.
    According to the Mail:
    Sevim Cesim may not be one of the biggest or most well known names in this particular chapter of the Rangers saga but she just might become one of the most important players in this police investigation 

    View Comment
  20. John Clark


    ianagainApril 1, 2016 at 20:33
    ‘..According to the Mail:Sevim Cesim may not be one of the biggest or most well known names in this particular chapter of the Rangers saga ..’
    ________
    I emailed said lady back in August 2015 about the photo of the ‘gardener’ and her at Glasgow Airport, and got a ‘who are you?’ reply. Seems like a hundred years ago!
    Is there a current reference to her in the ‘Mail’ that set you browsin, or were you browsing the archives?

    View Comment
  21. essexbeancounter


    LIMSHADY61APRIL 1, 2016 at 15:46 ESSEXBEANCOUNTERAPRIL 1, 2016 at 12:37————————–EBC, apart from Murray, I suspect the other 86 recipients of EBT monies have long since spent them so it may be academic anyway, but you can’t just “close a trust”, so in theory they could repay before 6 April 2019. Any trust I have seen has generally been open-ended or with a 99 year term.After April 2019, and assuming most have not repaid anything, I suspect HMRC will have brought in some sort of variation on Accelerated Payments Notices (which only apply to DOTAS schemes at present) so the beneficiaries will be issued with those and invited to pay up within 30 days or be taken to court.Probably the most interesting question so far as Rangers is concerned is whether and to what extent non-UK resident individuals will be pursued. Under the present APN regime, I have a German client – a peripatetic professional and never UK resident – who engaged in a DOTAS scheme (before he knew me obviously) and he was issued with such a notice last spring, sent to his home in Germany.Because he wants to be able to visit the UK in future to carry out his professional engagements without fear, he has paid up without a whimper, rather than face a “Hear My Song” scenario. (For those not familiar with Josef Locke, see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear_My_Song or better still get the film – it’s very funny – with David McCallum as the tax inspector).What the likes of Flo, Advocaat & Novo will want advice on is what risk they run if they try to enter the UK at some later point. Whatever, the procession of ex-Rangers players being taken to court and or made bankrupt will bring home once and for all the blatant cheating that was carried on between 1998 and 2008.
    ============================================
    Slimshady61…great to see you back posting…your comments, caustic and/or otherwise, have been sadly missed…by me at least! 12
    I agree entirely with all your points and underlying sentiments, particularly  your comment re “close a trust”…but surely Trust Law will have been followed to ensure that the “beneficiaries” or even their estates, are never in reality, called upon to repay anything…I would be pleasantly surprised to be proved 1,000% wrong! And I am aware that even allowing for their latest “Automatic Exchange of Information” obligations, the UK tax havens of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, for that is what they are, will continue to be a secretive bunch!
    I note your comments re potential (future) APNs and whilst enjoying some schadenfreude in this area, I suspect that since the Finance Bill (i.e. Budget past) is yet to pass into law, some of these proposals may be deemed as “retrospective legislation”, and bearing in mind that Messrs Cameron and Osborne, plus at least three other senior members of the current cabinet enjoy offshore financing/sheltering, I am not 100% sure that this proposed legislation will see the statute book.
    I do however, live in hope…and I say so (hopefully at least!) without any trace of vindictiveness! 14
    PS To all TSFM bloggers, please forgive the apparently obscure/obtuse acronyms.

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  22. essexbeancounter


    STEVIEBCAPRIL 1, 2016 at 16:28 …and can they trust their WAGS ?! 
    ===============================
    StevieBC…shame upon you… 21

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  23. essexbeancounter


    JUSTSHATEREDAPRIL 1, 2016 at 18:54 Interesting to see the story about the EBT’s rearing its head again. Is this not the EBT’s that we were assured, by our intrepid media, would have no effect on the players and that they would not be required to pay back a penny to the exchequer? Although this law is still at the discussion phase it is a double problem for those who had an EBT. If BDO lose the appeal in the Supreme Court then they’ll be chased by the tax man, yet if the appeal is successful Hector will still be after them if this law comes to pass. I hope Hector is keeping a close eye on any money being transferred abroad from the recipients. =================================
    JustShattered…I see the future…and it is… looking good…assuming the appeals go in our (i.e. taxpayers’) favour 04
    On the positive side, I firmly believe that it is now to late for those recalcitrants who have not already made “overseas sheltering” arrangements…shame! 03

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  24. essexbeancounter


    I claim a hat-trick of consecutive posts…OK…time to go off and finish the Chianti Classico (DOCG)…Slimsahdy will enlighten all the non Italianates… 21

    View Comment
  25. easyJambo


    ianagain April 1, 2016 at 20:33
    Been archive browsing. Anybody mind his lady? Back in Aug 15. Allegedly company sec under CG. I wonder if anyone is in touch with her these days. According to the Mail:Sevim Cesim may not be one of the biggest or most well known names in this particular chapter of the Rangers saga but she just might become one of the most important players in this police investigation 
    ===========================
    It is unlikely that she will be called as a witness, given the charges that have been dropped from the indictment.

    View Comment
  26. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    DENAPRIL 1, 2016 at 19:03 Many of the EBT recipients will be sorry that they ever agreed to the arrangement. From the FTTT it can be seen that some of the players took professional advice from Lawyers and Accountants, these advisers and the agents involved may be first port of call when it comes to players looking to be indemnified…
    ============================
    I’m guessing that the lawyers and accountants will have their proverbial backsides well covered wrt any ‘advice’ given – with associated caveats and legalese small print ! 14

    But, the player’s agent who IIRC skims off about 10-15% of a players earnings – for providing their ‘professional services’ -should be worried, IMO.  It is the agent who actively negotiates / validates / recommends a deal offered by a buying club on behalf of his footie client.
    The players themselves would be liable [potentially] in the first instance – but they would then chase after their agent for reimbursement and compensation. Good luck with that !
    Mibbees a number of football agents/agent companies will choose to relocate/dissolve as a precaution ?

    View Comment
  27. ianagain

    ianagain


    John ClarkApril 1, 2016 at 21:10  
    ianagainApril 1, 2016 at 20:33‘..According to the Mail:Sevim Cesim may not be one of the biggest or most well known names in this particular chapter of the Rangers saga ..’________I emailed said lady back in August 2015 about the photo of the ‘gardener’ and her at Glasgow Airport, and got a ‘who are you?’ reply. Seems like a hundred years ago! Is there a current reference to her in the ‘Mail’ that set you browsin, or were you browsing the archives?
    ———————————————————-
    easyJamboApril 1, 2016 at 22:06 
    ianagain April 1, 2016 at 20:33 Been archive browsing. Anybody mind his lady? Back in Aug 15. Allegedly company sec under CG. I wonder if anyone is in touch with her these days. According to the Mail:Sevim Cesim may not be one of the biggest or most well known names in this particular chapter of the Rangers saga but she just might become one of the most important players in this police investigation  =========================== It is unlikely that she will be called as a witness, given the charges that have been dropped from the indictment.
    ______________________________________________________
    JC EasyJ
    Nope just trawling about and thinking thinking about many things including the re incarnation of CF (as I call it) around that time.
    I note Phil Macs latest and the seemingly unstoppable leaks from the heart of Sevco.
    Who knows.
    I will take my seat (virtually via you guys) and see what plays out. (And who gives evidence). 

    View Comment
  28. slimshady61


    ESSEXBEANCOUNTERAPRIL 1, 2016 at 21:31
    —————————-
    De nada & thanks EBC! Finding it hard to express myself in 140 characters all the time and saw some interesting stuff on here recently.
    This I think is a two pronged approach.
    On the one hand the Supreme Court will wend its way to a conclusion which is important for the 40,000 or so cases (yes 40,000) for which, in the winner’s eyes, this decision will set a precedent.  
    I’ve always felt HMRC would succeed, it’s just a pity they advanced such a paucity of argument at the FTT and UTT and wasted 5 years (Heidi Poon’s decision was almost in spite of the piss-poor performance offered up by HMRC’s counsel but she as a non-native accountant stood no chance sat beside two Edinburgh lawyers of David Murray’s acquaintance).  Thankfully at the CoS a good Scots QC, Julian Ghosh, set them on the right path last year.
    There could not be a clearer case of diversion of income than this he said, and really that’s all it amounts to; doesn’t matter if the income was diverted to the family dog, Broxi Bear, Tiny Gallacher in the kitchen, or Trident Trust in the Channel Islands. Player X diverted income away from his own, highly-taxed self, to a lower-taxed / untaxed person, with the sole or main purpose of avoiding tax.
    The second prong is the Finance Bill 2016 which if enacted will deem that any pre-2011 payments that are now defined as disguised income (those pesky side letters) will become subject to income tax on 6 April 2019, unless the arrangements giving rise to the disguised income have been unwound (i.e. in the case of EBT loans, the loans have been repaid).  
    I don’t see it as retrospective (in the same way that I don’t see RIFC or TRFC being retrospective; they both date from no earlier than 2012).  
    I suspect many of the participants had some doubts initially but thought Murray and Rangers would always be there for them and placed heavy reliance on the indemnity offered by “the Club”.  
    It remains to be seen if some clever lawyer decides to go after RIFC or TRFC, being “the Club”, to meet that indemnity in 4 or 5 years time – I rather think one will.  There are plenty of ambulance-chasers in the legal profession these days and, around Ibrox, there will be no shortage of victims.
    But the focus really should move from those poor individuals to the people who oversaw all of this; the chairman of Rangers, his directors and Murray Group Tax Manager (who reported to HMRC that no side letters existed when they did), the SFA and SPL (as was).  
    Theirs is the greater culpability. When you see a letter from Douglas Adams (every word approved by Murray) to Flo, putting £2.95M at Flo’s disposal and telling him in the same breath that this payment is entirely gratuitous and is specifically NOT for past, present or future performance, you wonder what parallel universe they were living on at the time and why no-one responsible for oversight of the game in Scotland either at the time, or in 2012 when drawing up the LNS Kangaroo Court, could see what the ordinary fan in the street can see, that this was cheating on an industrial scale.  
    Let justice be done though the heavens may fall; this will have been a long time coming. It may, eventually, lead to a clean up amongst the game’s administrators but I suspect most of the culpable will simply retire/head back south rather than be held properly to account.  The same happened in 1999 when Farry, about to take the stand and reveal dishonesty at the heart of the SFA, was summarily dismissed before he could croak. The SFA hierarchy, glad to have kept their blazers, then happily settled with Celtic.  Remember in the previous 3 years they had held 2 independent, if internal(!), investigations that completely exonerated Farry and the SFA.  
    Incidentally, for what it’s worth, Osborne & Cameron’s offshore arrangements are I think a little more complex and won’t be caught by this legislation. (Remember they offered in 2010 to publish their tax returns and then, once elected, decided not to?) 
    [DOGC = Drop Of Good Chianti]

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  29. Bogs Dollox


    There will not be retrospective legislation enacted. If you think the Tories are going to do that to catch their tax dodging electorate you need your head examined.
    Even if they do it will be over turned by the ECHR.

    View Comment
  30. redlichtie


    Slim et al….

    I wonder which company/club issued these side letters? To my mind they may still have legal standing in terms of the indemnity contained therein.

    If the issuing party is still in existence the player(s) may well have a claim on whatever assets or funds that are still lying aound.

    Is that one of the reasons BDO sought leave to appeal? I puzzled over their apparent intention to spend dwindling money from the creditors pot.

    Will the proposed tightening of legislation now force them to actually make such an appeal? Were they aware of upcoming changes to legislation?

    Does that make an appeal now less likely?

    This is potentially complicated stuff indeed.

    Imagine the outcry if, after the upcoming court cases, BDO somehow finds itself the owner of Ibrox and MP with the assets then frozen as dozens of ex-players jointly try to force a sale so that they can cash in the RFC (IL) indemnity!

    Scottish Football needs a strong Leicester (as an example of what can be done against the game’s big shots).

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  31. essexbeancounter


    SLIMSHADY61APRIL 1, 2016 at 23:13 [DOGC = Drop Of Good Chianti]
    ====================================
    0303030303 … and so much easier to say than Denominazione de … I see what you did there… 21 …at least the Gavi is safe and intact till tomorrow (night!)….

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  32. ianagain

    ianagain


    Slim
    The thing that anyone is faced with arguing the “my advisor told me” story is simply they either signed the tax return them self or an accountant did it on their behalf. Ergo if it is false they take the hit personally.
    They can feel free to take such advisors to court. Indeed wearingly they appear daily in High Courts some win most lose.

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  33. Corrupt official

    Corrupt official


    Just a thick greedy ex-footballer?
    Not sure if you were mis-sold an EBT? 
    All we need is the name of the dodgy off-shore trust, and your side letter
    Call this freephone number now. 21

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  34. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    STEVIEBCAPRIL 1, 2016 at 22:36
    But, the player’s agent who IIRC skims off about 10-15% of a players earnings – for providing their ‘professional services’ -should be worried, IMO. It is the agent who actively negotiates / validates / recommends a deal offered by a buying club on behalf of his footie client.The players themselves would be liable [potentially] in the first instance – but they would then chase after their agent for reimbursement and compensation. Good luck with that !Mibbees a number of football agents/agent companies will choose to relocate/dissolve as a precaution ?
    —————————————
    Now do we know the names of any of these agents?
    And do we know all the names of the people who got EBT’s, will we find out  by April 2019  the names of the rest of the people who got them? And could this open up a whole new can of worms?
    If i’m wrong and we do know all the names of who got EBT’s please correct me

    View Comment
  35. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    BOGS DOLLOX
    APRIL 1, 2016 at 23:38
    11 8 Rate This

    There will not be retrospective legislation enacted. If you think the Tories are going to do that to catch their tax dodging electorate you need your head examined.
    Even if they do it will be over turned by the ECHR.

    ==============================================

    I’m intrigued, which particular article do you think would “over turn” a Government taking action against tax avoidance.

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  36. valentinesclown

    valentinesclown


    CLUSTER ONEAPRIL 2, 2016 at 09:10
    If i’m wrong and we do know all the names of who got EBT’s please correct me
    —————————————————————————————————
    I recall (cannot remember the source) that in the region of 15 EBT’s were unaccountable for. 

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  37. tamjartmarquez

    tamjartmarquez


    BBC Breakfast tv this morning sports round-up, male sports presenter, ‘Rangers could be promoted back to top division 4 years after being sent down…for financial malpractice’ dunno whether to 0303 or0611

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  38. easyJambo


    Cluster One April 2, 2016 at 09:10
    Now do we know the names of any of these agents? And do we know all the names of the people who got EBT’s, will we find out  by April 2019  the names of the rest of the people who got them? And could this open up a whole new can of worms? If i’m wrong and we do know all the names of who got EBT’s please correct me
    ===============================
    We know the bulk of people, particularly players, who received EBTs as they were listed in the LNS Commission report.  The BBC also listed most recipients following the Mark Daly investigation.

    Blair Morgan (Mr Grey), agent to Alex McLeish (Mr Violet) and Neil McCann (Mr Purple), gave evidence to the FTTT. 

    Mr Grey was asked in his testimony the percentage of agency commission he would be getting in respect of Mr Purple, and he replied, ‘The practice is: normally our standard fee would be 5% of the transfer fee or the player’s gross income.’ (Day 10 8/87.24) Mr Grey also said that the FIFA recommended rate was 5%. In any event, Mr Grey’s practice was to be paid agency commission totalling £100,000 in three instalments in connection with Mr Purple’s second contract by Rangers.

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  39. Paradisebhoy

    Paradisebhoy


    Cluster OneApril 2, 2016 at 09:10
    valentinesclownApril 2, 2016 at 09:46
    “15 EBT’s were unaccountable” . I think it was Stevie BC who raised this point again , a couple of days ago . IIRC the reason for all the EBT recipients not being revealed has never been explained . Who are these People ?
                         We know by Graeme Souness that you didn’t have to be an actual employee of the old Club to get an EBT . So who else would Rangers feel the need to reward ? Journalists , SFA and League Officials , Match Officials , Politicians ? Roll on 2019 .

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  40. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    tamjartmarquezApril 2, 2016 at 09:50 
    BBC Breakfast tv this morning sports round-up, male sports presenter, ‘Rangers could be promoted back to top division 4 years after being sent down…for financial malpractice’ dunno whether to   or
    ______________________________________

    As a man at the Beeb used to say, ‘it’s unbeliiiieeevable!’ Except, we’ve come to expect it from this once respected bastion of the truth. Or did we just belieeeve it to be that bastion?

    If ‘Rangers’ still existed, or if those that now run TRFC dared, then surely the national broadcaster would face charges of defamation, or similar – at least a complaint, for stating that RFC carried out some crime; for unless I am mistaken, ‘financial malpractice’ infers a crime took place. in this instance performed by the club called ‘Rangers’!

    But we know, of course, that no complaint will be made, for all concerned would prefer the club’s Downfall to be portrayed as a crime than to hear the ‘L’ word used!

    Crime and criminals, illegality and malpractice, mis-registration, court cases, tribunals… just another rainy day at the office for those at Ibrox.

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  41. tony

    tony


    JJ’s latest piece
    http://johnjamessite.com/2016/04/02/premiership-blues/

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  42. jockybhoy


    Boys Dollix: Am sure if the European Court of Human Rghts was an option Uli Hoeness would have been on the phone pretty sharpish…. and Uli’s case does remind us of ultimate sanctions offered by any given country’s tax regime ( clearly I am not suggesting any employees living or dead of any club, light or dead, cheated the taxman in the same way as Uli, if at all: does that cover me Homunculus? 😉).
    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/13/uli-hoeness-sentenced-three-and-a-half-years-prison-tax-evasion-germany

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  43. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    PARADISEBHOYAPRIL 2, 2016 at 10:14
    We know by Graeme Souness that you didn’t have to be an actual employee of the old Club to get an EBT . So who else would Rangers feel the need to reward ? Journalists , SFA and League Officials , Match Officials , Politicians ? Roll on 2019 .
    —————————–
    will we be able to find out who else received EBTs that are not listed in the LNS Commission report.The other 15 EBT’s not unaccountable, who else would Rangers feel the need to reward ? Journalists , SFA and League Officials , Match Officials , Politicians ? Will this be the real Armageddon?

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  44. Bogs Dollox


    Homunculus

    I was thinking Article 7 for starters 

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  45. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    BOGS DOLLOX
    APRIL 2, 2016 at 13:16
    ============================

    I thought article 7 related to retrospective legislation regarding criminality.

    “No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.”

    This will presumably relate to tax avoidance, rather than tax evasion.

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  46. jockybhoy


    The fact that HMRC took issue with the EBTs some time ago and the fact that Celtic’s chairman Brian Quinn, ex-Bank of England was suspicious of these schemes, immediately shutting down Juninho Paulista’s version and proactively paying tax owed, would imply previous legislation was in effect. In terms of convictions relating to tax evasion or avoidance, paying backtax, with fines and interest, that’s long standing practice…

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  47. John Clark


    ParadisebhoyApril 2, 2016 at 10:14
    ‘…So who else would Rangers feel the need to reward ..’
    _________
    When it comes to acknowledging favours and a helpful hand, I myself always remember my friend  at the Bank.

    View Comment
  48. Bogs Dollox


    HomunculusApril 2, 2016 at 13:25 
    BOGS DOLLOX APRIL 2, 2016 at 13:16 ============================
    I thought article 7 related to retrospective legislation regarding criminality.
    “No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.”
    This will presumably relate to tax avoidance, rather than tax evasion.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The fact that the proposed legislation is intended to act retrospectively is in principle a violation of human rights.

    I’m not actually saying I don’t want the EBTEr’s to pay up but if governments can change legislation retrospectively in the Taxes Acts then it does not bode well for the citizenery. The legal system then becomes nothing more than an arbitrary set of laws which change almost on a whim.

    View Comment
  49. jimbo

    jimbo


    Going back to my post from yesterday,

    ““She also noted that the editor of sport at BBC Scotland had acknowledged the comments by Mr Spence could have been better phrased within the live piece and had apologised for any offence caused. ”

    In other words the phraseology used had the potential to cause ‘offence’.

    As a licence payer this sticks in my craw.

    Maybe today or midweek TRFC could secure the Championship.  Fair enough (apart from the inordinate amount of penalties awarded to them).

    They will not be promoted today nor Tuesday, they will be promoted at the start of the next season.  Sorry to be pedantic.

    You see phraseology is important to us licence holders, so if I hear any mention of ‘returning’ , ‘Back’, ‘after an absence’  or other such nonsense I am going to be deeply offended and will expect an apology from the Editor of BBC Scotland Sports.  What’s good for the goose is good for the gander after all.  No?

    Promotional activities  through the first 4 years is ok.  I am good with that.  Thus far and no further please BBC.

    As for the print media, well you know what will happen there.  Special editions, 16 page pull outs,  but no matter I don’t give them a penny and their days are numbered anyway.  Enjoy the end times hacks.

    View Comment
  50. bailemeanach


    So there’s me just off an 8 minute rant to Sky Sports news feedback line after Jeff Stelling informing me and other mugs who subscribe that “Rangers” are on the cusp of a return to the top tier after “relegation 4 years ago”. Who is setting this disingenuous agenda?
    The agent I spoke to was from an overseas contact centre, however seemed to be au fait with this particular issue.
    I can only desist from continuing with Sky, but she said it will all be fed back – if they have a CRM system then it will of course be fed back.
    I work as a customer insight analyst for a big High Street retailer, and no feedback gets covered up. We report it as it is, and the plenopotentiaries need to understand the customer voice.
    So if you are paying to listen to blatent lies, then challenge it directly.

    View Comment
  51. slimshady61


    IANAGAIN
    April 1, 2016
    —————–
    “Lord, who is my neighbour?”  You might as well ask  “M’lord, who is my adviser?”  For with Rangers we have (i) Grant Thornton, (ii) Rob McGhee of Argyle Consulting who made the fateful introduction of David Murray to (iii) Paul Baxendale-Walker, and (iv) West End Consultancy Ltd who produced the EBTs.  No doubt all have escape clauses in their engagement terms. Incidentally, Rob McGhee was introducing Murray to PBW 2 years after I had advised one of my clients to have nothing to do with the guy (PBW that is….).   
    The players can only sue their own advisers, not Rangers’.  Or they may seek to claim on the indemnity in the side letter (those that had them – Ian MacMillan the former Murray group tax manager actually lied in a letter to HMRC when he averred that there were no side letters).  
    To answer Red Lichtie, the indemnifier was Rangers Football Club plc (now RFC 2012 Ltd (In Liquidation). I am not an insolvency expert but my guess is they are time-barred from making a claim because at the date the company was taken over by BDO, no loss had crystallised and no claim made.   Perhaps a better-advised former player should have made a protective claim at that time, but maybe Ally Jambo or another insolvency pro can confirm? 
    54 to 0

    View Comment
  52. slimshady61


    Cluster One
    I think there are between 15-20 names unaccounted for.  Some may well be other MIH employees but it would be good to hear Gavin Masterson & Jimmy Calderwood confirm they never received one and for the SFA and SPFL (formerly SPL) confirm that no one who was ever a member of either of those organisations received one (other than Campbell Ogilvie of course).
    Perhaps each journalist could also confirm they have never been a beneficiary?

    PS
    I was at Celtic Park today and thought it was an excellent game from start to finish. Hearts to me have played better football than Aberdeen for much of the season, but allowed too many inconsistent performances to intervene (SJFC last week for example).  
    Today Hearts stood toe to toe with Celtic for the first half hour and scorned a couple of great chances, but as soon as Celtic matched them at the pressing and closing down, the game turned their way. Still second place not impossible, given the last 5 games are all against the other top 6. As against that, it looks as if Hearts will have to come to Celtic Park for a 3rd time this season the way the top 6 is panning out. 
    Whatever, it is clear that whoever comes up from the Championship will struggle to get into the top 6 next season. 

    View Comment
  53. jimbo

    jimbo


    Didn’t hear  On the Ball at lunchtime but I am currently listening to Off The Ball.  It’s funny how they are discussing getting rid of Hampden as the National Stadium after Matty Roth and I discussed this on Thursday!  Apparently 50% of folk who contacted the BBC agreed.  There was even mention of moving it to Stirling (Matty’s choice) or moving SFA games and cup semis & finals around club stadiums like in other countries.

    Do you think Tam & Stuart pop on here now and again?

    View Comment
  54. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    BOGS DOLLOX
    APRIL 2, 2016 at 14:17
    4 2 Rate This

    The fact that the proposed legislation is intended to act retrospectively is in principle a violation of human rights.

    ===============================

    So not ECHR any more, just “… in principle a violation of human rights.”

    Tax avoidance is wrong and unlawful. The Government bringing in legislation to stop it and to recover money from people who have benefited from it is not “… in principle a violation of human rights.” It is a perfectly acceptable way for a Government to act, on behalf of all of it’s citizens, not just the greedy ones.

    We are talking about billions of pounds in tax, unpaid by people abusing tax systems. I would suggest for the most part people already earning well above what the average person does.

    If that money can be recovered it can be used to help all of us. If it can be stopped going forward even better.

    View Comment
  55. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    Bogs DolloxApril 2, 2016 at 14:17 
    HomunculusApril 2, 2016 at 13:25  BOGS DOLLOX APRIL 2, 2016 at 13:16 ============================ I thought article 7 related to retrospective legislation regarding criminality.“No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.”This will presumably relate to tax avoidance, rather than tax evasion.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    The fact that the proposed legislation is intended to act retrospectively is in principle a violation of human rights.
    I’m not actually saying I don’t want the EBTEr’s to pay up but if governments can change legislation retrospectively in the Taxes Acts then it does not bode well for the citizenery. The legal system then becomes nothing more than an arbitrary set of laws which change almost on a whim.
    _____________________________________

    I am no expert, nor knowledgeable in tax law, but I am of the opinion that there would be no ‘retrospective’ aspect to the proposed changes. By the nature of the way the tax laws work, it appears that tax schemes aren’t ‘legal’ until challenged by HMRC and found not to be ‘illegal’.

    If someone chooses to risk losing out by entering into something that may well be challenged by HMRC, tough. The opportunity is there for everyone to check before committing to any schemes, and everyone (at least those with the money to make it worthwhile, even the thickest of footballers) knows that HMRC wants everyone to pay tax on all monies earned.

    I very much doubt that anyone has a Human Right (or even Civil Right) to not pay taxes. Nor do they have a Human Right, any right, to set up a tax scheme expecting to get away with unpaid tax, and penalties, in the event that once the inevitable investigation and court case is concluded the scheme is found to be illegal.

    I am sure the existence of side letters would go some way, in the RFC EBT case at least, to show that the beneficiaries were all aware that HMRC could one day come calling for unpaid income tax.

    I am, however, certain that the proposals have a long way to go before they become law, and that many words will be written by disgruntled tax advisors suggesting the EC might over-rule the UK government – if we are still in the EC by the time any changes take place, of course.

    Most will be aware that both the banks and airline companies have been hit with massive retrospective bills brought about by changes in the law. PPI for the banks, and flight delays for the airlines. PPI wasn’t illegal until the law was changed, and it’s the EC, itself, that has introduced legislation compelling the airlines to pay compensation, backdated for 6 years, for flights delayed for over 3 hours. I doubt users of dubious tax avoidance schemes, all fully aware of the dangers, will receive any more sympathy from the EC courts than the banks and airline companies did.

    View Comment
  56. redlichtie


    I’ve seen this phrase used by RTC and The Clumpany……””Rangers died because they lied”.

    I’ve often thought that we should find some short soundbite to use whenever discussion with third parties turned to the Oldco/Newco situation. Especially those hard of thinking types…

    I know that it does not cover all that went on but if we could start getting this soundbite into such discussions, including with the media, maybe that would help get the truth over.

    Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

    View Comment
  57. jean7brodie

    jean7brodie


    AllyjamboApril 2, 2016 at 19:07
    If someone chooses to risk losing out by entering into something that may well be challenged by HMRC, tough. The opportunity is there for everyone to check before committing to any schemes, and everyone (at least those with the money to make it worthwhile, even the thickest of footballers) knows that HMRC wants everyone to pay tax on all monies earned.
    ________________________________________________________
    OT but… perhaps George Osborne’s family business should be the first to be investigated.08

    View Comment
  58. John Clark


    AllyjamboApril 2, 2016 at 19:07
    ‘…and it’s the EC, itself, that has introduced legislation compelling the airlines to pay compensation, backdated for 6 years, for flights delayed for over 3 hours.’
    _______
    Allyjambo ,
    Are you forgetting that , as I think you mentioned to me  at a ‘saga’ hearing in Edinburgh that we both attended ( seems about a lifetime ago!) you are domiciled furth of Scotland? 02
    The 6 years period does not apply in fair Scotia: we can only go back 5 years!05 ( The Prescription and Limitation(Scotland)Act 1973, section 6).

    View Comment
  59. Paradisebhoy

    Paradisebhoy


    redlichtieApril 2, 2016 at 20:18
    ” Newco Sevco
      New Club Defo ! ”
    Best I could come up with on a Saturday night with an empty heid .

    View Comment
  60. nawlite


    I’ve been nursing this one for a while. It’s a bit naughty, but thought it was nice to turn one of their fave songs against them. (You’ll know the one I mean!)
    Hullo, hullo, that club used EBTs
    Hullo, hullo, they brought it to it’s knees
    They were up to their necks in side contracts
    and so they had to lie
    The dead club used them EBTs 

    View Comment
  61. John Clark


    “Scroll to the bottom of the page linked above and you see the last entry in D&P’s global timeline – “2012 Administrator for Rangers in the largest football club insolvency in UK history”.
    This exhortation was from the late, and greatly missed, Paul McConville ( his blog of May 26 2012), which I was re-reading just a few minutes ago.
    Out of (what else but innocent curiosity?) I had a look at the current ‘time-line’:
    Duff & Phelps History and Timeline
    2016
    Acquired CounselWorks, LLC, expanding Compliance and Regulatory Compliance practice in the U.S. 
    2015
    Acquired American Appraisal, significantly enhancing our global valuation practice Acquired Kinetic Partners and Launched Financial Regulatory and Compliance Practice2014
    Acquired RSM Farrell Grant Sparks’ Restructuring and Insolvency Division, establishing a presence in the Republic of Ireland
    2013
    Duff & Phelps transitioned from a public to private entity.
    2012
    Acquired CETERIS®Acquired iEnvision TechnologyAcquired Harvester Forensics Limited2011
    Acquired Pagemill Partners  Acquired MCR, greatly expanding our presence in the UK
     see http://www.duffandphelps.com/about-us/duff-phelps-history-and-timeline
    Although they have kept other 2012 (and earlier)  ‘achievements’ in their time-line, they would appear to think it not worth keeping a mention of having dealt with ‘the largest football club insolvency in UK history.’
    I wonder why?
    In stark contrast to the new club whose (nonsensical) boast is that it is that very football club, and rather than feel guilt and shame , actually glories in the ignominy attached to the cheating mentality behind that boast.

    View Comment
  62. jimbo

    jimbo


    Duff & Phelps = Duff & Duffer,  every day 4 years ago a new nick name came on the RTC for those two duffers.  Ha Ha 03030303210403

    View Comment
  63. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    John ClarkApril 2, 2016 at 22:11 
    AllyjamboApril 2, 2016 at 19:07‘…and it’s the EC, itself, that has introduced legislation compelling the airlines to pay compensation, backdated for 6 years, for flights delayed for over 3 hours.’_______Allyjambo , Are you forgetting that , as I think you mentioned to me  at a ‘saga’ hearing in Edinburgh that we both attended ( seems about a lifetime ago!) you are domiciled furth of Scotland?  The 6 years period does not apply in fair Scotia: we can only go back 5 years! ( The Prescription and Limitation(Scotland)Act 1973, section 6).
    ______________

    John, put that cork back into the neck of the bottle, please 21, I think you must be mistaking me for my fellow Jambo, Easy. While it would give me great pleasure to meet you one day, I’m afraid that moment hasn’t come yet. Though, sadly, I have qualified for a regular dose of Saga bumf through my door for quite a number of years now 20

    As an aside, I have availed myself of the delayed flights legislation quite recently, for a flight some 3 years ago, and will be doing similar after an aborted take-off from Lanzarote on Tuesday night, aborted as we gathered speed 05, squeaky bum time, I can assure you. Squeaky bum time again the next day when we all discovered we were getting onto the same plane20

    Anyway, I don’t think the EC is all that averse to reciprocal payments of compensation/fines, brought about by fresh legislation, as these two examples, PIP and delayed flights, show. There may, of course, be other hurdles for the proposed legislation to overcome/falter at.

    View Comment
  64. briggsbhoy


    On the Oldco/newco debate:

    If we all keep referring to them as NEW Rangers it will eventually stick, well at least amongst the informed.

    View Comment
  65. Bogs Dollox


    AllyjamboApril 2, 2016 at 19:07 
    Bogs DolloxApril 2, 2016 at 14:17  HomunculusApril 2, 2016 at 13:25  BOGS DOLLOX APRIL 2, 2016 at 13:16 ============================ I thought article 7 related to retrospective legislation regarding criminality.“No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.”This will presumably relate to tax avoidance, rather than tax evasion. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The fact that the proposed legislation is intended to act retrospectively is in principle a violation of human rights. I’m not actually saying I don’t want the EBTEr’s to pay up but if governments can change legislation retrospectively in the Taxes Acts then it does not bode well for the citizenery. The legal system then becomes nothing more than an arbitrary set of laws which change almost on a whim. _____________________________________
    I am no expert, nor knowledgeable in tax law, but I am of the opinion that there would be no ‘retrospective’ aspect to the proposed changes. By the nature of the way the tax laws work, it appears that tax schemes aren’t ‘legal’ until challenged by HMRC and found not to be ‘illegal’.
    If someone chooses to risk losing out by entering into something that may well be challenged by HMRC, tough. The opportunity is there for everyone to check before committing to any schemes, and everyone (at least those with the money to make it worthwhile, even the thickest of footballers) knows that HMRC wants everyone to pay tax on all monies earned.
    I very much doubt that anyone has a Human Right (or even Civil Right) to not pay taxes. Nor do they have a Human Right, any right, to set up a tax scheme expecting to get away with unpaid tax, and penalties, in the event that once the inevitable investigation and court case is concluded the scheme is found to be illegal.
    I am sure the existence of side letters would go some way, in the RFC EBT case at least, to show that the beneficiaries were all aware that HMRC could one day come calling for unpaid income tax.
    I am, however, certain that the proposals have a long way to go before they become law, and that many words will be written by disgruntled tax advisors suggesting the EC might over-rule the UK government – if we are still in the EC by the time any changes take place, of course.
    Most will be aware that both the banks and airline companies have been hit with massive retrospective bills brought about by changes in the law. PPI for the banks, and flight delays for the airlines. PPI wasn’t illegal until the law was changed, and it’s the EC, itself, that has introduced legislation compelling the airlines to pay compensation, backdated for 6 years, for flights delayed for over 3 hours. I doubt users of dubious tax avoidance schemes, all fully aware of the dangers, will receive any more sympathy from the EC courts than the banks and airline companies did.
    ________________________________________________________________
    Of course there will be no retrospective aspect to the legislation.To do anything else contravenes the centuries old principles which uphold British Justice.

    In my post above I said “The legal system then becomes nothing more than an arbitrary set of laws which change almost on a whim”. Which is what in effect the SFA/SPFL have been doing for a long time.
    Homuncilus – you say you are a lawyer but you immediately pounced on me – trying to devalue my opinion on the possible role of the ECHR. That was a trap – you fell into it.
    Tax “schemes”/avoidance are legal at the time because the vendors of them seek leading tax counsels opinion who are willing to opine that they are legit and they will see HMRC in Court to fight the case over legal technicalities/perceived ” loopholes”.
    Recently some of the Film Scheme Avoidance/”Tax Planning” was found to be completely criminal. I could name the players (footballers and tax advisors) in this but won’t because they deserve a fair trial.
    My real point is that this site has lost its way a bit in the last few months.

    View Comment
  66. John Clark


    AllyjamboApril 2, 2016 at 23:21
    ‘.. I think you must be mistaking me for my fellow Jambo, Easy. ..’
    _______
    Ach, it must have been the excitement of that time that got to me!
    There were three, possibly four, people I met ( guardedly) on the occasion I’m thinking of.
    One of them had travelled up for free from Yorkshire, I’m sure.
    One other was Cast of Thousands, and another was a very nice chap ( not that CoT wasn’t a nice chap as well!) who has some legal background.
    It was on that occasion that I was reinforced in my view that there was a broad spectrum of the Scottish Football fandom that, like me, felt that there was something fundamentally wrong with how the liquidation of RFC had been dealt with by the football Authorities, and something even more fundamentally wrong with the 5-way agreement and the whole set-up of the new club as a ‘continuation’ ( without responsibility for debt!) of the liquidated club.
    I know that easyJambo is not a hundred miles from Tynecastle, so I’m not confusing him with you.
    So, at this time of a Sunday morning, who was it that I thought was you?  I am intrigued. Or suffering from oldtimers!

    View Comment
  67. John Clark


    Bogs DolloxApril 3, 2016 at 00:44
    ‘..My real point is that this site has lost its way a bit in the last few months.’
    _______
    I would accept that it tends to wander a bit down one or two avenues which,while of great interest in themselves,  are of only peripheral interest to the main raison d’etre of SFM.
    What may or may not happen to people who might or might not be hunted down by HMRC for tax unpaid is really not the main business of SFM. The point at which making sure you don’t pay more tax than you are legally obliged to pay becomes a deliberate attempt to dodge paying tax that you ARE legally obliged to pay is, of course, an interesting one-for all of us.
    BUT, whether any EBT recipient goes to jail, or has to pay thousands of pounds of back taxes, is not really of fundamental interest, although it would for some people be quite gratifying to see certain individuals placed in that position.
    You are right, Bogs Dollox, to call us back to the real point and purpose of SFM- to call out the sports cheating that was perpetrated by one rotten ‘majority shareholder’, and the deceit and malfeasance of the authorities  of that sport who allowed that cheating, and have supported and propagated a sporting monster of untruth regarding that cheating.

    View Comment
  68. Bogs Dollox


    John ClarkApril 3, 2016 at 01:37 
    You are right, Bogs Dollox, to call us back to the real point and purpose of SFM- to call out the sports cheating that was perpetrated by one rotten ‘majority shareholder’, and the deceit and malfeasance of the authorities  of that sport who allowed that cheating, and have supported and propagated a sporting monster of untruth regarding that cheating.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Thank you John.

    I don’t post on here much but I felt it was becoming a “let’s do Rangers any way we can Fest”. That kind of thinking just plays to the Gallery and feeds the “two club” myth which some on here feast on.

    My personal opinion is that we need to stick together to challenge the SFA/SPFL and our clubs and also the commercial interests (mainly media but not exclusively) who corrupt our game.

    View Comment
  69. jimbo

    jimbo


    Fair play to Alisdair Lamont’s report on BBC Scotland online in respect of yesterday’s game at Starks Park.  He must have read my guidelines from yesterday 21.   No mentions of ‘returning to the top’ or even a hint of ‘back to where they belong’.  Just centred on ‘winning the title’, ‘securing the championship’.  Well done 04

    Bogs Dollox,  It’s almost impossible to post anything on here on the core issues without mentioning Rangers.  It all centres on them. They are a central piece of the jigsaw.  If you think Rangers gets a hard time on here you should have a look at johnjamesite.  And that is from a Rangers blogger!  Mind you I agree with just about everything he says.

    View Comment
  70. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    BOGS DOLLOX
    APRIL 3, 2016 at 00:44
    4 6 Rate This

    Homuncilus – you say you are a lawyer but you immediately pounced on me – trying to devalue my opinion on the possible role of the ECHR. That was a trap – you fell into it.
    Tax “schemes”/avoidance are legal at the time because the vendors of them seek leading tax counsels opinion who are willing to opine that they are legit and they will see HMRC in Court to fight the case over legal technicalities/perceived ” loopholes”.

    ========================================

    1. Why would I say I was a lawyer, I am no such thing.

    2. I didn’t try to “devalue your opinion on the possible role of the ECHR.” I simply asked what particular article of the ECHR would come into play. You said Article 7. I merely pointed out that Article 7 related to retrospective legislation with regards criminality. Tax avoidance, as far as I am aware is not a criminal act.

    3, “Tax “schemes”/avoidance are legal at the time because the vendors of them seek leading tax counsels opinion …”. I think you will find that Parliament and the courts decide what is legal and what isn’t. The people you describe as “leading tax counsel” are highly trained and highly paid lawyers, however they are not legislators. They neither make nor enforce the law. Getting their opinion on something does not make it legal. It just gives you someone you can blame when things go wrong.

    Tax avoidance is not legal. A lawyer giving an opinion that a certain scheme is not avoidance it is legitimate tax management does not change that.

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  71. Althetim


    Good morning. I haven’t commented in a while so I thought I’d share my complaint to the BBC regarding their Breakfast News sports bulletin yesterday. It is bad enough that the SMSM continually perpetuate the Big Lie but when the English based state funded broadcaster joins in, they need to be called out. I will publish the reply, should I receive one.

    “During his Saturday morning sports bulletin, Matt Smith said “In Scotland, Rangers could gain promotion back to the Premiership today, four years after being sent right down to the bottom tier of Scottish football because of financial malpractice”.
     I would point out inaccuracies in this remark.
     1) Rangers can’t gain promotion back to the Premiership as they have never played in it. Rangers Football Club PLC, founded in 1872 and incorporated as a company in 1899, were consigned to liquidation in 2012. The SPFL Premiership wasn’t established until 2013. The Rangers Football Club Ltd, formerly Sevco Scotland Ltd, (now commonly referred to as “Rangers”) were established in 2012 and have as yet never played in the Premiership. Therefore neither of these entities can be said to be gaining promotion “back” to the Premiership.
     2) Rangers were not “sent right down to the bottom tier of Scottish football”. Rangers (est 1872) are in the process of being liquidated by BDO. Rangers (est 2012) were granted a license and awarded a place in the fourth tier of senior Scottish football under dubious circumstances. To state that Rangers were “sent right down” implies that they were demoted or relegated which is untrue. Rangers (est 1872) effectively ceased to exist in 2012. Rangers (est 2012) were created from the basket of assets purchased by the Charles Green led consortium, Sevco Scotland Ltd, which subsequently changed it’s name to The Rangers Football Club Ltd, as mentioned above.
     3) The consequence of Rangers (est 1872) “financial malpractice” was liquidation, not “being sent right down” anywhere as stated by Matt. The financial malpractice resulted in over 270 creditors having unpaid dues, including social taxes owed to HMRC.
     It should be noted by presenters at the state funded BBC that under Scots law, when a club incorporates as a company, it becomes the company. The former club does not remain a separate entity. TRFC Ltd is not a continuation of RFC PLC. To imply that it is, as Matt did, is incorrect.”

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  72. Big Pink


    Name check for a visit to SFM Central by ValentinesClown on Friday.
    Always good to see the people popping in, and it was a great excuse for me to down tools and have a blether for a while. Hope I didn’t tire him out too much 🙂

    Sadly, I never even offered VC a cuppa. 05

    Having said that, he did not arrive bearing Jaffa cakes 🙂

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  73. Corrupt official

    Corrupt official


    BIG PINKAPRIL 3, 2016 at 10:54
       
    Sadly, I never even offered VC a cuppa.
    Having said that, he did not arrive bearing Jaffa cakes  
       ————————————————————————–
       Dems da rules. 
       “No cuppa” was merely a consequence of his own actions. I am sure VC is aware of this and does not feel victimised in any way. 21  
     

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  74. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    AlthetimApril 3, 2016 at 10:21
    Well put, covering what was needed to be said and keeping it short enough for all at the Beeb to understand! There is enough there that whoever opens the email should, at the very least, feel inclined to check out for themselves it’s veracity. Sadly, they will probably just contact their counterparts at BBC Scotland, or phone the SFA/SPFL, and be flannelled off.

    I might find it useful to print it off so I can hand it out to anyone down here in darkest Derbyshire who ever suggests ‘Rangers’ are on their way back! It’s not easy to get it across as it covers so much over such a long period of time, and I can see their eyes glazing over as soon as I mention EBTs and tax, which comes about two sentences into my spiel! To be honest, though, I’ve come across precious few, in the football mad area I live in, who have shown even the slightest interest in what’s happened to them.

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  75. jimbo

    jimbo


    Althetim, great letter.  Well done.04

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