Where now for the Judicial Panel Protocol?

Another excellent piece by Glasnost.

Trisidium

Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

1,574 Comments
  1. Danish Pastry


    tombrann says:
    September 7, 2012 at 09:16
     9 0 Rate This
    I well remember the dreadfull day of the disaster …
    ———-

    It was one of those few JFK moments. I was in Dunchatten Street with a friend when people spontaneously came up and told us that many people had been killed at Ibrox. We had no idea of the numbers or the real story. Initially we thought it was perhaps some serious crowd trouble thing that was being reported.

    I knew the stairway. I was often ‘carried’ down on the flow of fans when my brother took me along in the ’60s. It was always a slightly scary experience.

    I’ve never heard anyone speak ill of the victims. Anyone misusing this tragedy to further an agenda is beneath contempt.

    PS Cheers NO&G, Grant is tying himself in knots on the old-new issue. The sooner the financial authorities get going on this the better. The current debate has become a kind of chicken-or–the-egg dilemma.

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  2. AllyJambo

    AllyJambo


    On AT’s twitter some guy, Willhelm, wonder where he got that name, has a link (sorry can’t copy it over) that he claims shows how all Celtic fans use the word ‘dalek’ – presumably he means to describe the Ibrox dead (as he doesn’t say otherwise in a discussion that started with the claim they do). It is a link to a youtube video, by a Celtic fan, in which 2 cartoon daleks portray 2 stupid Rangers fans talking outside Ibrox. Apart from the foul language there is nothing insulting in anyway to anyone. The references are all to games played in 2008 and is no more than micky-taking banter and no mention of the disaster is made. Sadly, AT doesn’t pick him up on this rather glaring misrepresentation.

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  3. longtimelurker


    BigF says:
    September 7, 2012 at 10:43
    22 0 Rate This

    *********************************************************************************************************************

    Thanks for this.

    I was at the 1981 SCF too, as a Celtic supporter, it was my first OF game and I was at the Celtic end at the very top and watched open mouth at the bottles flying from the rangers support above the enclosure down onto their own support below them which at that time I believe is where the families (fathers and sons) went.

    Shocking scenes both inside and outside the ground. That match was built up the entire week beforehand by the press as a rangers must win otherwise they were out of Europe the following season and by God did the react to defeat and the thought of who was beating them.

    That game changed Scottish football forever, after that match drink was banned from Scottish grounds.

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  4. ExiledCelt


    the daleks are nothign to do with Power Rangers are they?

    http://www.facebook.com/dalekrangers

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  5. john clarke


    twopanda bears says:
    September 7, 2012 at 10:45
    ‘..It’s about the “History” bit regarding CG / D+P possibly playing with legal bonfires to come. ‘
    ——
    On my third espresso!

    Your post shows what a right unholy legal and commercial mess has been created.

    I suspect that Lord Hodge is going to make a huge name for himself as an absoluteley outstanding legal mind if he arrives at the decision that the D&P Administration has to be declared nulll and void, and that consequently Sevco/ The RangersFC has no legal identity!

    I think ( perhaps regretfully) that that kind of outcome is unlikely. What intrigues me is that it is at least theoretically possible.

    With that possibility in mind, never mind any other of the many reasons for being extremely wary of anything CG offers, would anyone with any savvy risk buying shares in Sevco/The Rangers?

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  6. MikeC


    I to can remember the day very well. Was living in Castlemilk at the time and a young neighbour a Rangers fan (17 years old) went to the game and when the news came through his mother was “up to high dough” since 3 hours later he had not arrived home. Being a Celtic fan, I knew of the “Rangers” pubs in Rutherglen and did a pub crawl and found him drinking with his mates totally oblivious to what was going on outside. Got him into the car and got him home. One relieved mother !!
    Have not been to a Celtic Rangers game since the “George Connolly” Scottish Cup final although I have a ST for Parkhead. Games NOT good.

    View Comment
  7. nickmcguinness


    My dad was at the Celtic End that day and knew nothing of the disaster until he came home and saw it on the news. He was deeply upset, as we all were. We knew it could just as easily have happened at the Celtic End.
    I’ve been in scary crushes in the old Jungle at Celtic Park, although I thankfully missed out on the Janefield Street incident when a charge by police horses almost caused a catastrophe.
    Only a strange set of circumstances stopped me taking up an offer from a Juventus fan to go to Heysel Stadium in Brussels for the tragic European Cup Final. He had secured two tickets from a Belgian fan for the area where the horror occurred but, due to my late call-off, he ended up at the other end of the stadium. A lucky escape for both of us.
    Then there is sheer decency and respect for the dead.
    All of these are reasons why I — and 99.99% of Celtic fans I know — would ever countenance any show of disrespect whatsoever towards the tragic victims of Stairway 13.
    May they rest in peace.
    And may those attempting to use their deaths to score cheap points hang their heads in shame.

    View Comment
  8. willmacufree


    @STVGrant is a bit short on logic. As has been said many,many times on here, if what he says is correct, then the club has transferred membership to itself.

    Probably, once again, I’ll not be the first to point this out.

    View Comment
  9. smallteaser


    Could we get off the Ibrox disaster thread please surely for another site.

    View Comment
  10. Ordinary Fan


    Grant Russell seems to be confused. The SFA membership was not “transferred”. RFC automatically lost their SFA membership for going into liquidation, a completely new football club applied for that membership and were then allocated the SFA membership despite the fact it was against SFA rules and others should have been allowed to apply.
    Unfortunately they were not allowed to and are surprisingly happy with that, leaving supporters across Scotland wondering what kind of sweeteners and promises have been made in secret. RFC have no rights over the membership. RFC lost their membership. A new club was given the membership after applying for it.
    If Grant Russell and others believe the history of RFC is “transferable” along with the share, would they also agree that had Spartans or Cove for example were given the SFA membership they would then be a continuation of RFC and could then claim to have won 54 (Tainted) titles and a cup winners cup? No they wouldn’t.

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  11. PG


    “In the meantime, let us study things which are no more. It is necessary to know them, if only for the purpose of avoiding them. The counterfeits of the past assume false names, and gladly call themselves the future. This spectre, this past, is given to falsifying its own passport. Let us inform ourselves of the trap. Let us be on our guard. The past has a visage, superstition, and a mask, hypocrisy. Let us denounce the visage and let us tear off the mask.”

    Victor Hugo

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  12. john clarke


    My mail has just come in.

    Among it is a further letter from my MP ( dated 4th september) attaching a copy of the reply ( dated 30th August ) he received from HMRC regarding my query about HMRC’s statement about RFC(IA).

    As predicted by an earlier poster, HMRC ( in the form of Graham Brammer, Director, Debt Management and Banking) has, in the words of my Mp’s covering letter, “hidden behind ‘confidentiality’ as a reason not to respond directly to their public statement’.

    Their letter is too long and, being essentially a load of self-protecting bureaucratic crap about how they always ‘ remain conscious of our obligation…. to maintain the overall integrity of the tax system and the need for fairness..’ is too boring to give in full.

    However, they confirm what we have already heard, namely, that ‘ liquidators will… ..examine all aspects of the period of administration, including the valuation of the sale of any assets.’

    What they do not comment on is why their statement about RFC(IA) had those apparently encouragingly supportive ( or, perhaps, ‘supporter’s!) words about RFC being able to carry on playing football at Ibrox.

    Brammer playing a brammer!

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  13. tic6709


    PG @12.17.
    Beautiful, and so very apt.

    View Comment
  14. Auchinstarry


    The underlying problem with Sevco fans seems to be a refusal to move on from the denial stage. Their mindset is still fixed on a “It wisnae us” mentality. We did nothing wrong. There is also a real determination to protect the corpse of the “Old club” from detractors of Any kind. Protection and Denial. A dangerous enemy of Truth.
    This latest rant from Mc Murdo’s website is another attempt to spread negative propaganda, and undermine the work carried out by two individuals, who have helped expose the sorry saga and the attempt at a cover up. A clear case of “Blame the Messenger”. Detract from their reputation.
    Just for the record, I was at the Disaster game as a 15 year old kid. I stood on the Celtic end.
    When I eventually got home (later than usual), My Fathers house was full. My mother cried. As the full severity of the Accident became apparent, Everybody cried. It affected everybody, Green or Blue.

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  15. CrazyHorse

    CrazyHorse


    Copy and paste link below for some light reading on a Friday afternoon. In order to float Charles Le Vert would have to reveal his hand, can’t wait.

    http://www.londonstockexchange.com/companies-and-advisors/aim/advisers/rules/aim-rules-for-companies.pdf

    Also came across this headline;
    Rangers to float as it chases global glory, The Guardian, Friday 31 March 2000

    Jump forward a decade or so, how about;
    Rangers to float as it chases Ramsdens Cup glory, MSM/Media House, September 2012

    Made me smile.

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  16. Hoopy 7


    CrazyHorse says:

    September 7, 2012 at 13:22
    …………………………………………….
    The Rules just confirm why a lot of us think that there will be no flotation.

    But in the event that this is wrong I am of the opinion that it will fail.

    View Comment
  17. Alex Cox


    As discuseed previously, a succesful share issue is an absolute must if no othert “private investors” are found.

    Football clubs are very much front loaded on income, this is particularly true of Rangers with no European income this year (and another few).

    Looking at their current likely expenses it seems obvious that they are spending the season ticket income, which should really last most of the year, in order to keep the business afloat just now. That money has to be replaced, once it is gone it is gone and overheads, wages etc will still have to be paid. With no European income to make up the difference their simply won’t be enough money.

    The share issue is, and laways has been the gamble. If it is succcesful Charles Green and the other investors will make a profit whilst still owning and controlling the major assets of th business. That profit will come directly from the pockets of the Rangers’ supporters.

    If it is a failure then the business will almost certainly fold. They will be unable to borrow money to make up the shortfall. Quite simply it will not be a viable trading entity.

    For Sevco this is the really important issue. Loss of titles, bringing the game into disrepute etc will largely be irrelevant. If the share issue fails then the new club will almost certainly die, in it’s first season.

    All hail the blue knights and the next episode.

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  18. CrazyHorse

    CrazyHorse


    Hoopy 7 says:
    September 7, 2012 at 13:36

    The Rules just confirm why a lot of us think that there will be no flotation.
    But in the event that this is wrong I am of the opinion that it will fail.
    …………………………………………………………………………………..

    I concur Hoopy 7. More chance of hitting the crossbar, from the halfway line, blindfolded, with a back heeler than a successful if any flotation.

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  19. WOTTPI


    Alex Cox says:
    September 7, 2012 at 13:38

    I tend to agree it is all a bit of a gamble with the aim being to try and keep the ship afloat to a time where they may be able to obtain SPL prize money and Euro cash to supplement season ticket sales.

    It really comes down to whether or not the share issue will be a success and if there will be enough cash available for the required number of years until they reach the place they want to be.

    Whether or not Mr Charles will be around at that time is another question.

    The balancing act at this stage is:-

    Hope for reconstrcution and SPL2

    No major cash prizes available for the competitions the team are playing in but a bit of TV cash and and SPL backhander.

    No big private investors on the horizon. A mention of a few (Sally inlcuded) but no confirmation they any have actually parted with their cash.

    Nothing big announced in terms of sponsorship deals, stadium naming etc etc.

    The Sports Direct contract is merely a reworking of the JJB deal to get in a bit of hard cash.

    Season Ticket position now known. If promoted then ability to raise prices next year but care required you don’t price customers out.

    Good attendances including pay at the doors but suspect that may begin to fall once as the season goes on.

    A squad of 26 players to feed and water along with 11 backroom staff.

    A reserve/youth squad of 16

    Murray Park and the Academy still to be financed included 7 key members of staff.

    Upkeep and maintenance of Ibrox

    Match day running cost

    Weekly outgoings for the whole operation including all the financial advisers & lawyers fees.

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  20. AllyJambo

    AllyJambo


    Just had a quick glance over the AIM rules kindly supplied by Crazy Horse.

    I have been wondering why the haste to float Greengers, if we discard the desperation for money angle that is? The undernoted ‘Special Conditions for Certain Applications’ just might explain that haste if my understanding of it is correct. For the next year the registration embargo gives them the perfect excuse not to spend any more money other than day to day transactions so they can be in and out before they have to placate the bears by buying new players. It might also explain why they were so desperate to delay the embargo when they already had players capable of winning the SPL3, as otherwise, from next July, the bears would have been screaming for new signings or asking where the share money had gone.

    From AIM Rules:

    Special conditions for certain applicants
    Lock-ins for new businesses
    7. Where an applicant’s main activity is a business which has not been independent and
    earning revenue for at least two years, it must ensure that all related parties and
    applicable employees as at the date of admission agree not to dispose of any interest in
    its securities for one year from the admission of its securities.
    This rule will not apply in the event of an intervening court order, the death of a party who
    has been subject to this rule or in respect of an acceptance of a takeover offer for the AIM
    company which is open to all shareholders.

    My understanding of this means that, in the event of a successfull floatation, Green and his mates would not be able to dispose of their shares until, assuming an October launch, next October, which would leave them a couple of months to get out before the fans are looking for more players from their hard earned money. Probably a deadline (to get out) they would be keen to meet.

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  21. coineanachantaighe


    miki67 says:
    September 7, 2012 at 01:30
    I can’t quite get my head round that insane attempt by Bill McMurder to get the lynch mob mentality going in such a sleekit and awful way. I hope Ch4′s lawyers are on that like h*ngry eagles. That is one of the worst things I’ve ever read in my six decades on this violent planet.
    Completely vile,vile,vile.
    —————————————————————
    As every one on here knows, A. Thomson is a real journalist who has actually risked his life to get at the truth about news stories (see http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/hostile-territory/1863). Some fat arsed churno up here who’s never tried to get real stories and never risked more than not meeting his daily pie consumption quota having a go at him like that is way, way beyond disgusting.

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  22. midcalderan


    john clarke says:
    September 7, 2012 at 12:19

    My mail has just come in. …………… As predicted by an earlier poster, HMRC ( in the form of Graham Brammer, Director, Debt Management and Banking) has, in the words of my Mp’s covering letter, “hidden behind ‘confidentiality’ as a reason not to respond directly to their public statement’.
    ——————–
    John, you are correct. I can’t see how HMRC can hide behind confidentiality regarding their statement. You are not seeking information about a third party’s tax affairs in relation to the statement. You are asking HMRC to explain their statement, one which they have put into the public domain.

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  23. midcalderan


    CrazyHorse says:
    September 7, 2012 at 13:22

    Copy and paste link below for some light reading on a Friday afternoon. In order to float Charles Le Vert would have to reveal his hand, can’t wait.
    ————————————
    There’s too many sections on “Disclosure” for TRFC to have a successful listing. But then again, “Disclosure”, we are TRFC, surely this doesn’t mean full disclosure, can we not just disclose the good bits?

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  24. Angus


    As for “crossbar challenges”, two punters have won a quarter of million doing the rugby version in England in the last couple of years.

    Personally, I really don’t think RFC(shinynew) will survive long enough for it to take place. I don’t think Mr Charles thinks so, either. I certainly don’t think he intends to still be in charge by then.

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  25. tomtom


    kells says:
    September 7, 2012 at 13:49

    Not sure if this was mentioned before. Last Saturday on Radio Scotland at about 1.30pm Derek Ferguson quipped that the reason Maurice Johnstone signed for Rangers was “a million pounds in a Swiss bank account”. It may be a metaphorical million pounds but it may be true and could mark the beginning of David Murray’s tax dodging schemes.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————

    This will probably be stuck in moderation AGAIN, {SFM – indeed!]

    ——————————————————-

    Quite a sweeping statement. I assume that you can tell us who the three people were and how you know about this.

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  26. Alex Cox


    tomtom says:
    September 7, 2012 at 15:26

    ————————-

    Given what he has said and the tone in which he said it, then there were 4 people there.

    Mr Johnstone, himself and two others.

    View Comment
  27. Alex Cox


    WOTTPI says:
    September 7, 2012 at 14:21

    ============================

    Personally I think that without further private investment or an at least reasonably good uptake on a share iossue they will struggle to see the season out. Rising debt, in order to cover the income shortfall is not an option unless someone is willing to actually lend them the money. Given the circumstances it seems unlikely that loans at reasonable rates will be available.

    Bearing in mind the previous club was forced down the commercial wonga route. Potential lenders will not be as naive as fans. Any borrowing will be at a high rate of interest and secured to the maximum available. If borrowing is available at all.

    The share issue really is the final throw of the dice as far as I can see. It was also planned on SPL football, and one year out of Europe. So it will be even more difficult than had been at first thought.

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  28. tomtom


    Further thoughts on the Johnston transfer.

    The deal was worth £1.8m in total made up of:

    £600k to Nantes
    £600k signing on fee to Johnston
    3 year contract at £200k per annum

    Johnston thought his £600k signing on fee was nett. McMurdo pointed out to him that it was subject to tax and when Celtic refused to pay it he then approached Rangers. Now in order for Johnson to get his £600k tax paid Rangers would need to pay £400k of tax (at the rates that applied at that time) It could well be that, although it was, and is, the norm for any signing on fees to be paid off over the life of the contract Rangers (desperate to get the non c@tholic monkey off their back) gave Johnston a £1m cheque. Maybe, at that time, they believed that Johnston would bank the cheque and then send the £400k of the the Inland Revenue. Johnston, being Johnston, then deposits said cheque in a Swiss bank accountant without telling the Revenue.

    You don’t think Murray was duped do you?

    :Edited for the use of a religious term

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  29. arabest1


    Lots of posters on here seem convinced Green is another Whyte and will fill his boots then exit rapid, now this may have been his plan, but is it possible that he has ‘gone native’. Gates of 40k+, just make play the victim card, or the persecuted card, or appeal to the inherent vanity of the fan base and they will queue up all day to throw tenners at the crest. Perhaps he’s been seduced by the ‘vibrancy’ of the club despite everything that has happened he thinks he on a right little earner, and he might well be!

    A few posts about Mo Johnston signing for Souness in 89, if anything illustrated the desperate need for change at Celtic Park it was this fiasco. The Celtic board lied to MoJo and tried to pull a flanker……….it was their own fault no one else’s, had they given the wages they promised he would have played for Celtic – they did not, the Beast did – simple!

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  30. easyJambo


    Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug
    Dual contracts hearing will kickstart next week. Procedural hearing on Tuesday and Wednesday. No evidence to be heard yet. #Rangers
    =================================
    Some movement at last

    View Comment
  31. iki


    Alex Cox says:
    September 7, 2012 at 15:43
    Personally I think that without further private investment or an at least reasonably good uptake on a share iossue they will struggle to see the season out. Rising debt, in order to cover the income shortfall is not an option unless someone is willing to actually lend them the money. Given the circumstances it seems unlikely that loans at reasonable rates will be available.
    ==========
    Of course, as is their wont, they could look to their history and just stop paying their bills or some of them, anyway.

    Strathclyde police has shown itself to be willing to provide service without payment; other clubs have shown willing to wait and wait for monies due ; glamour ‘charity’ matches can be arranged; players can be asked to have temporary wage cut/deferment; maybe HMRC will be asked to look kindly on them as they are part of the ‘fabric of Scottish society.

    I know this comment has a sarcastic tone but I am no longer surprised by anything that happens in this saga …… disappointed, yes, surprised, not any more.

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  32. J Maclure


    ‘The Scottish Football Monitor’

    C’mon , lads , stop the pretence, call it what it is ‘The Rangers Football Monitor right to the nth degree’

    I get the feeling that no matter the outcome a lot of you will not be happy till Rangers cease to exist. It is now an obsession.

    Why don’t you concentrate all your efforts in getting punters flocking in their thousands to the new valhalla for Scottish Football now your enemy is in Division 3. Or perhaps that is taking things too far.

    Cos you know so far, it aint happening.

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  33. A Expert


    Did I hear on the radio today that Salmond and McColl were best buddies these days. I wonder how much McColl will be asked to donate to the SNP/Independence campaign in return for Alex having put in a word on behalf of Oldco Rangers with HMTC et al?

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  34. WOTTPI


    Alex Cox says:
    September 7, 2012 at 15:43

    The question is are the book balancing this season.

    Season Tickets 30,000 at say £250 = £7.5m
    Pay at door at say 10,000 at £10 for 20 games = £2.0m
    What additional income from other sources?

    V

    What is the current wage bill?
    26 players on ave £2500 per week = £3.38m (things look good)
    26 players on ave £5000 per week = £6.76m (things begin to look tight)
    Whats the backroom staff costing?
    What are the new operating costs?

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  35. tomtom


    Arabest says:
    September 7, 2012 at 15:56

    A few posts about Mo Johnston signing for Souness in 89, if anything illustrated the desperate need for change at Celtic Park it was this fiasco. The Celtic board lied to MoJo and tried to pull a flanker……….it was their own fault no one else’s, had they given the wages they promised he would have played for Celtic – they did not, the Beast did – simple!
    ——————————————-

    At no time did the Celtic board pull a flanker or lie. They can certainly be accused of a lot of things but not that. They played it with a straight bat and simply refused to give in to Johnston’s greed. They certainly wouldn’t have thought that he would turn up at Ibrox and, I guess, assumed that Johnston would back down and sign. I cant remember for certain when the deal went sour but at the player’s dinner (the night after the cup final if I remember) Johnston was telling the Celtic players present that he was going to sign for Rangers. It would be fair to say that few people believed him at the time and many thought that other substances were at work.

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  36. iceman63


    Grant Russell is representative of the MSM coterie of journalists – they are all duplicitous, truth-avoiding idiots. Clearly not one amongst them has any notion of truth or decency or the roles and responsibilities of a journalist. They will believe ( or pretend to believe) any nonsense to keep their gravy train rolling. Unfortunately for them the gravy has dried up – SEVCO are headed for the buffers and the whole saga is on mark 2- this time earlier in the season with no reserves to get them through.

    The MSM are chumps – big time – they will face the ultimate ridicule when this goes belly up. No doubt by Christmas none of them will have ever called SEVCO “Rangers” – because SEVCO will not be trading and so a new Rangers will need to be born – cue next thieving bandit through the door.

    More rules will be changed and to avoid the risk of them folding again the new new Rangers (but always the Rangers though no’ new but the same club right any argument you get chibbed ) will be accelerated into the top tier ( for the good of Scottish football) amidst a vast triumphalist storm of moonbeams – and so the saga will continue.

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  37. Roland Brown


    On Topic(TRFC) shares

    http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=10307#comments

    Barcabhoys contribution to above link

    http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=10307&cpage=2#comment-1555694

    View Comment
  38. WOTTPI


    J Maclure says:
    September 7, 2012 at 16:08

    I hear what you say but simply provide answers to some of the questions raised about the finances, share issue and the type of questions in my post at 16:14 and we can go on our way knowing Charles Green has a sustainable economic model to that will avoid the whole of Scottish Football being thrown into another crisis by the second/third failure of one of our largest clubs and that the fans of said club aren’t going to get fleeced yet again.

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  39. TerryONeill


    On June 18 the Spl issued a statement that as a result of Harper Mcloud’s investigation into payments made to players outside their contracts ,

    rangers would (not could ,may but would) face disciplinary charges before the season started.

    The passage of weeks go buy then they announce that another investigation will now take place to establish guilt or not.

    So if guilt is established for the second time do we then

    have another investigation?

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  40. The Survey


    J Maclure says:
    September 7, 2012 at 16:08
    0 0 Rate This
    ‘The Scottish Football Monitor’

    C’mon , lads , stop the pretence, call it what it is ‘The Rangers Football Monitor right to the nth degree’
    —————————————————–
    have to agree , thought this was about the state of Scottish football from primary school right through to teens and above. Yes the Rangers story is big news but people have to accept the rules were broken in many ways and could possibly and potentially happen again to the same set of fans.We should discuss the FTTT when it comes out or 3 billionaires come or the police go knocking or whatever , an idea i like for early youth development is some sort of school football class as an extra curricular activity. This could be started in mid primary as a compulsory thing. It wouldn’t just help improve football , but would have a positive effect on all as it would help improve obesity rates.

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  41. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    As some have already touched on re: financing Sevco’s working capital requirements over the season.

    Can anyone confirm if Sevco now has ‘normal’ relations with a high street bank – including overdraft and loan facilities ?

    Assuming not, then would a proposed share issue not lose credibility before it has even started within the City ?

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  42. Alex Cox


    WOTTPI says:
    September 7, 2012 at 16:14

    ======================

    If they have managed to half the costs (not including wages) then the bill will be £7m or more. Given they still have to run Ibrox, Murray Park, pay policing costs etc.

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  43. arabest1


    tomtom says:

    I clearly remember watching interviews with Mojo, Bill Mc and M.Kelly, and between the three it was obvious what had happened. Johnston went to what he thought were signing talks with some Celtic directors. (he was playing the football of his life for Nantes and Scotland and to sign him would be a real coup) Upon arrival he was handed a Celtic top and told to give a press conference, when he asked about terms ie 3k per week, he was informed such detail is a mere formality just get out there and tell the world your back home! Following the press conference he had a contract for 600 per week placed in front of him, McM told the directors to honour their original agreement or the deal was off, Celtic refused. McM phoned Souness and who snapped his arm off for the biggest coup ever! Perhaps this does not equate to a lie, but is most certainly falls in the category of a flanker. ‘If you know you’re history’ you will know it is another in a long line of dubious treatment dished out to Celtic greats, why? Because they could! Charlie Nicholas tells a not dissimilar tale of his experience dealing with Celtic, or Jimmy McGrory who was one of the poorest paid in the Celtic squad for a decade after he declined a move to Arsenal.

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  44. Long Time Lurker

    Long Time Lurker


    Apologies if this is viewed as OT.

    Just received a text from Waterstones – the copy of Downfall that I had ordered is in and has been collected.

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  45. Nowoldandgrumpy


    easyJambo on September 7, 2012 at 15:57
     5 0 Rate This
    Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug
    Dual contracts hearing will kickstart next week. Procedural hearing on Tuesday and Wednesday. No evidence to be heard yet. #Rangers
    =================================
    Some movement at last
    ——–

    Got excited and even considered that the FTT might have ruled.
    Then I saw who tweeted it.
    So I will wait for a second confirmation.

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  46. Long Time Lurker

    Long Time Lurker


    Shame on AT – in the introduction to Downfall (which is excellent, hard hitting) he gives “Duff and Duffer” a mention, without providing the correct copyright acknowledgement that we have become accustomed to seeing both here and on RTC.

    View Comment
  47. jonnyod


    Long Time Lurker says:
    September 7, 2012 at 16:59
    Shame on AT – in the introduction to Downfall (which is excellent, hard hitting) he gives “Duff and Duffer” a mention, without providing the correct copyright acknowledgement that we have become accustomed to seeing both here and on RTC.

    =====================================================================
    Who does the copyright belong to ,I thought I was the first one to coin the phrase

    View Comment
  48. Calderon


    I clearly remember watching interviews with Mojo, Bill Mc and M.Kelly, and between the three it was obvious what had happened.
    _____________________________________

    With respect, you have just cited three of the most unreliable characters on the planet. I think from watching those interviews it would be near impossible to deduce what happened and not at all ‘obvious’.

    View Comment
  49. Danish Pastry


    The Survey says:
    September 7, 2012 at 16:23
     3 3 Rate This
    J Maclure says:
    September 7, 2012 at 16:08
    0 0 Rate This
    ‘The Scottish Football Monitor’

    C’mon , lads , stop the pretence, call it what it is ‘The Rangers Football Monitor right to the nth degree’
    —————————————————–
    … thought this was about the state of Scottish football from primary school right through to teens and above …
    ———-

    At some point you hope it will be. But as long as this story persists it will overshadow everything else. If there is no justice or fairness in Scottish football then there can be no football worthy of anyone’s respect. Why would any primary school kid or teen dream of becoming a professional footballer if the sport is seen to be corrupt at its very heart? Wouldn’t you rather be Andy Murray or Sir Chris Hoy?

    View Comment
  50. arabest1


    Calderon says:

    It was a documentary called footballers lives (I think) the picture that emerged was at least ‘obvious’, there was not even any disagreement! Each put their version of events and the viewer could see what happened….good journalism, for a change!

    View Comment
  51. jonnyod


    Just a thought but did the alleged Zurich meeting with CG,CW,DK etc coincide with the disappearance of Bombed Broon.
    If so ,any suggestions as to the agenda at said meeting

    View Comment
  52. john clarke


    Nowoldandgrumpy says:
    September 7, 2012 at 16:47
    “easyJambo on September 7, 2012 at 15:57
    5 0 Rate This
    Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug
    Dual contracts hearing will kickstart next week. Procedural hearing on Tuesday and Wednesday. No evidence to be heard yet. #Rangers
    =================================
    Some movement at last
    ——–

    Got excited and even considered that the FTT might have ruled.
    Then I saw who tweeted it.
    So I will wait for a second confirmation.

    ——-
    But which feckin Rangers is turning up-RFC(IA) with D&P’s lawyers, or Green with his lawyers? BBC radio Scotland is so bloody uninforming and uninformed.

    View Comment
  53. isnibs


    Staggering how Campbell Ogilvie is still in a job.

    http://maleysbhoys.com/2012/09/06/the-campbell-ogilvie-saga-continues/

    View Comment
  54. CW


    Dual contract investigation on Tue/ Wed next week ? When do Scotland play ? mmmm !

    Good time to bury bad news ? Somebody’s at it here !

    View Comment
  55. jonnyod


    If I were an investor ,I would invest in any glasgow company that sells WHITEWASH ,something tells me sales are going to go through the roof very soon .

    View Comment
  56. smallteaser


    easyJambo says:
    September 7, 2012 at 15:57

    Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug
    Dual contracts hearing will kickstart next week. Procedural hearing on Tuesday and Wednesday.
    =====================================================================
    This being a hearing, will Joe Public be able to hear?
    Will selected members of the MSM be able to hear?
    Will it be behind closed doors, so that no one knows the procedure agreed nor what is being discussed.
    Will it be like the last hearing where the specific remit was never announced only the decision.

    Transparency my ares

    View Comment
  57. iki


    smallteaser says:
    September 7, 2012 at 19:34
    Will it be like the last hearing where the specific remit was never announced only the decision.
    =============
    Will it be like the last hearing where the decision was announced, challenged, never reconvened and then amended by negotiation with the guilty party?

    As I said above on another post, disappointed, yes, surprised, not anymore.

    View Comment
  58. Danish Pastry


    Sky News reporting that Cenkos Securities http://www.cenkos.com/ have been appointed by Rangers to assist with plans to raise additional funds.

    Cenkos Securities?

    View Comment
  59. redetin


    StevieBC says:
    September 7, 2012 at 16:24

    As some have already touched on re: financing Sevco’s working capital requirements over the season.

    Can anyone confirm if Sevco now has ‘normal’ relations with a high street bank – including overdraft and loan facilities ?

    Assuming not, then would a proposed share issue not lose credibility before it has even started within the City ?
    __________________________

    The short sellers who specialise in sub-markets like AIM will be all over this share. There is much money to be made from a share issue that dives.

    View Comment
  60. Danish Pastry


    iki says:
    September 7, 2012 at 20:15
     1 0 Rate This
    Cenkos?
    http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/244/comment-page-30/#comments
    —–

    Thanks iki, just saw it on the ticker, missed those references.

    View Comment
  61. Agrajag


    CW says:
    September 7, 2012 at 19:09

    ====================

    There will be no way to bury the decision on whether or not Rangers fielded ineligible players for years.

    There will be no way to bury the punishment if they are found guilty.

    In a just World if they are found guilty it will mean changing the record books of Scottish football. It will be huge news either way.

    View Comment
  62. john clarke


    redetin says:
    September 7, 2012 at 20:16
    ‘..There is much money to be made from a share issue that dives.’

    ————
    I don’t doubt it . But how?

    I am reminded of Milo’s scam in ‘Catch 22’: is it like that? 🙂

    “I don’t understand why you buy eggs at seven cents a piece in Malta and sell them for five cents.”

    “I do it to make a profit.”

    “But how can you make a profit? You lose two cents an egg.”

    “But I make a profit of three and a quarter cents an egg by selling them at four and a quarter cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for seven cents an egg. Of course, I don’t make the profit. The syndicate makes the profit. And everybody has a share.”

    A btilliant, brilliant book – disappointing film, though. I recommend it to anyone.

    View Comment
  63. WOTTPI


    isnibs says:
    September 7, 2012 at 18:58

    No fan of Ogilvie but the amount of his share holding in Rangers was within the rules. However to be morally beyond reproach then he should have dumped them, as opposed to transferring them to his wife, as soon as he took up a position at Hearts. And he and his wife should have certainly got ride of them ASAP when appointed president of the SFA.

    View Comment
  64. stmiley


    Think it’s pretty much accepted that Green Rangers need investment to see out the season. A share issue is a serious gamble, but one that which will, almost certainly, have to be taken. I doubt it will raise the level of income required to steady the ship and make administration, this season, a real possibility.

    So what could Green do to prevent it? or, more to the point, what will he be forced to do.

    Will a fire sale in January become inevitable?

    With several players holding a real value and draining the (3rdDivision)clubs resources, will his hand be forced. Whyte has been criticised for not doing it last year or in January. Can Green afford to ignore basic economics?

    View Comment
  65. john clarke


    WOTTPI says:
    September 7, 2012 at 20:47
    ‘…..No fan of Ogilvie but the amount of his share holding in Rangers was within the rules. However to be morally beyond reproach then he should have dumped them, as opposed to transferring them to his wife, as soon as he took up a position at Hearts. And he and his wife should have certainly got ride of them ASAP when appointed president of the SFA.’
    —————–
    I think the fact that he did not is symptomatic of what others have described as the ‘arrogance’ of some in the cross-over between SFA and Rangers-as-was. Arrogance is maybe not quite the right word, but it’s near enough to describe that kind of mindset shared by those despicable Westminster swine who couldn’t believe anyone would even think of querying a claim for a duck house or for rent that they weren’t paying.

    ( And, incidentally, you may have noticed that now our bloody MSPs are exhibiting the same kind of self-important attitude in insisting that we should not see the new Holyrood bar that we’ve paid for. Bastards all!)

    View Comment
  66. Agrajag


    stmiley says:
    September 7, 2012 at 20:52

    ==========================

    They could sell and lease back Ibrox Stadium for a short term cash injection, at the cost of long term lease payments.

    That’s assuming there is no pesky security over it already.

    They could sell Murray Park and the land there.

    That’s assuming a potential buyer can be found and they can get planning permission making it a viable purchase.

    If the share issue doesn’t bring in enough to provide funds to keep the business operating those are the most obvious alternatives. A firesale of players is unlikely to bring in substantial sums. Who is there who would bring in millions of pounds, remembering that the player has to agree a contract with the buying club (or is it holding company).

    View Comment
  67. iki


    john clarke says:
    September 7, 2012 at 21:10
    I think the fact that he did not is symptomatic of what others have described as the ‘arrogance’ of some in the cross-over between SFA and Rangers-as-was. Arrogance is maybe not quite the right word, ….
    ==============
    I understand the difficulty of choosing quite the right adjective.
    There are the hordes who bellow “We are the people !” and there are those who do not feel the need to do so but they know that they are.

    View Comment
  68. redetin


    john clarke says:
    September 7, 2012 at 20:44

    redetin says:
    September 7, 2012 at 20:16
    ‘..There is much money to be made from a share issue that dives.’

    ————
    I don’t doubt it . But how?
    ____________________________________

    Short selling is well established and legal, and is just the converse of the normal long selling that most investors, ie, buy a share at one price and sell it at a higher price, the difference being the profit.

    A short seller sells shares (which he does not yet own) to a broker at a given price. Money goes into the sellers account. The share price falls. The short seller then buys the required number of shares and money leaves the account. The difference between selling and buying is the profit.

    Just google brokers for short selling.

    http://www.investopedia.com/university/shortselling/shortselling1.asp#axzz25ojarLcr

    View Comment
  69. Roland Brown


    Press Release: Downfall – How Rangers FC Self-Destructed

    http://frontlinenoir.com/press-release-downfall-how-rangers-fc-self-destructed/

    View Comment
  70. john clarke


    TerryONeill says:
    September 7, 2012 at 16:20
    —–
    ‘..On June 18 the Spl issued a statement that as a result of Harper Mcloud’s investigation into payments made to players outside their contracts …….,’
    ————-
    It’s a good job that it was the SPL ( as legally distinct from the SFA) who made that , at the time, very rash statement that punishment was due,without, apparently, any obvious ‘due process having taken place.
    Having done so, it would have been it impossible for them then to carry out a ‘proper’ investigation into the charges against one of their members under their own articles..

    Fortunately, the SFA, did not make any similar statement. Otherwise, they likewise would probably not have been able now to arrange for investigation .

    The ‘accused’ would have been able to argue that they would not get a fair hearing because they had already been found guilty!

    And, probably, the case would have had to be dropped!

    Or is that me trying to too smart at the amateur lawyer bit?

    View Comment
  71. john clarke


    redetin says:
    September 7, 2012 at 21:30
    —–
    Grateful, thank you.

    View Comment
  72. Paulmac


    Webster says:
    September 7, 2012 at 01:07

    Although born in Scotland have lived most of my life in England.
    Is there any truth in this Bill McMurdo’s claim that:

    “Thomson has joined the disgusting ranks of those who mock one of the worst days in football history by referring to Rangers fans as “Daleks” – a well-known reference in Scotland to the Ibrox Disaster.”

    Is it true that people make this disgusting reference?

    It can’t be true, can it??
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    No it’s not true…I have never in all my 47 years heard that reference..whether it be in a Celtic only pub..or in a heat of the moment rival fan moment…I’ve never even heard the subject being discussed in any shape or form..

    I used to live in Uddingston many years ago and Mr. McMurdo lived about 100 yards away from me…he had the kerb edges painted Red..White and Blue…always had a union flag flying…and wasn’t the most pleasant man to speak to…I would suggest this is one of those created references in order to deflect and reinforce their siege mentality…

    Never in all my life have I heard such a reference..and I’ve heard and seen a lot in my 47 years of life!

    View Comment
  73. TSFM


    New post up.

    View Comment

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