Is it time for the Sin Bin?

A guest blog by former Celtic & Scotland defender, Jim Craig

 

What time is this to come back?”

Dolores McCann (her Mother had been a great fan of foreign films) stood in that classic pose of the wounded woman – up to her full height and chin forward – as she glared at her husband who had just come in the front door. Before he could say a word, she gave him another volley;

 “you left the house at half-past-two for a three o’clock kick-off, it only takes you 20 minutes to get to the ground, a match lasts only one-and-a-half hours plus ten minutes for the break and you’ve just walked back in the door at half-past-seven! So where the hell were you?”.

Wayne McCann (his father liked Westerns) tried to calm her down.

“Dolores, you don’t know what it’s like at football matches nowadays ; it has changed out of all recognition; a match goes on for much longer”.

“In what way?” Dolores asked.

“Well, for a start, the players and even the managers can complain about any decision that is given against them. If that happens, the referee then goes and has a word with firstly, the two assistant referees, then the fourth official and gets their comments before he reflects on the situation. If he is still in any doubt that he made the wrong decision then he can ask the guy upstairs sitting in front of a television screen what he thinks. And, of course, all through this, the managers and players of both teams can chip in with their comments. That all adds a fair bit of time to the match”.

“Aye…but turning up at half-past-seven is still a bit over the top…is it no’?”

“Well, no’ really……you see, nowadays you are not allowed to have a drawn game, so if the match is level at the full-time whistle, there is extra time, which takes a minimum of half-an-hour”.

“The time is still no’ matching up!”

“Aye, mibbe so, if that was the end of the match. But if the match is still level at the end of extra-time, then it goes to a penalty shoot-out. I told you…you are not allowed a drawn game”.

“ A penalty shoot-out disnae take long”.

“That might have been the case at one time but because so many keepers were being accused of moving before the ball was kicked, nowadays they are strapped in to a harness which anchors them in the middle of the goal. They can only move when the foot of the guy who is taking the penalty actually touches the ball. So, after each kick, the keeper has to be put back into the harness and it all starts again. And, of course, you get the complaints from the managers and players that the harness wasnae working properly or that the officials who put the harness on didnae put it on right. That all adds up to the time factor”.

“Did you go to the pub?”

“As God is my judge, Dolores, after the match finished, I came straight here”.

“Who won anyway?”

“That’s a difficult question… there was so much noise and kerfuffle both on the pitch and in the stands, nobody was quite sure what the final score was. And the guy who usually does the announcing had gone home. Somebody said that he had a date. Anyway, if you let me turn on the radio, I’ll hear the score there. And Dolores?”

“Yes”

Wayne walked over to the drinks cabinet and took out a couple of glasses. “I don’t suppose you would fancy a wee drink”


We will leave the smooth-talking Wayne to his attempts to mollify Dolores and reflect on the situation. What you have just read is probably the ultimate scenario for those who wish to tamper with the current rules of football. Do I think that the game needs radical changes like that? No but I do think that some change is necessary and in one specific circumstance.

Now, I was a professional footballer for 9 years and in all that time, I can put my hand on my heart and state with complete conviction that I never pulled any other player’s jersey. Did I try to half him in two with a tackle, yes! But no jersey-pulling. And, of course, I was penalised for the challenge.

Today, though, I feel that there is a lot of body-checking and jersey-pulling going on in every match. Very often the referee lets it go and then you get the ridiculous scenario at a corner kick when all those waiting for the ball to come in are pulling and pushing, with the referee watching it and ignoring it. It is a foul, ref!

When the referee decides that an offence has been committed, then the player will be spoken to first. If he does it again, he will be given a yellow-card. The problem is, though, that the offence might possibly have affected the play in the match, whereas the yellow card does not affect the player’s participation.

If the player is daft enough to do it again, then of course he gets another yellow and will be off. Most, however, are sensible and keep the head, so they go unpunished as far as the current match is concerned. What we have to find is a punishment that affects the match in which the transgression occurred. Which means that we have to consider the sin bin.

This works very well in rugby and gives the referee a means to punish an offence a little more harshly – yet more efficiently – than a yellow card but without having to go for the ultimate, drastic – and for many unpalatable  – option of the red card. I hope it comes in soon.

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2,363 Comments
  1. jimbo

    jimbo


    Misunderstanding
    Unintentional
    Innocently
    Unimportant
    Undecided
    Trustworthy
    Presumed
    ………………………..

    Scandalous
    Lying
    Falsehoods
    Vagueness
    Importance
    Historical
    Armageddon
    ………………………….

    Just trying to help the Compliance Officer out a bit here.  He seems to be stuck for words.

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  2. bigboab1916

    bigboab1916


    Attachment

    John ClarkApril 16, 2018 at 23:53
    bigboab1916April 16, 2018 at 21:11 ‘…Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for.’ ______________________ 
    Was that the first and last time our SMSM spoke truth about what Liquidation of a football club  meant?
    There was no  ‘holding company’ in 1872, nor in 2012.

    Nor was there one in 2000 when Murray played the big man with Airdrie and the Silmy Football Association watched a historic Scottish club go to the wall for peanuts. Rangers Involvement on two occassions one with Masterton (RBS) for Celtic,  and the other business as usual Murray Big baws so Karma, be careful wjhat you wish for. 


    Debts force Airdrie into liquidation
    Wed 2 Feb 2000 21.23 GMT First published on Wed 2 Feb 2000 21.23 GMT
    The Scottish First Division club Airdrie have gone into liquidation with debts totalling £750,000.
    An extraordinary general meeting has been arranged for next Monday to discuss a change of constitution which could ensure the club’s survival.
    Currently no shareholder is allowed to own more than 10% of the shares – a ruling that could be changed at the EGM to allow new investors to become involved.
    The club’s provisional liquidator, Blair Nimmo of KPMG Corporate Recovery, said: “The club has first-class facilities and is an important institution within Scottish football. It just needs new investment.”
    Airdrie’s problems deepened yesterday when Rangers froze the struggling club’s share of the gate receipts for Sunday’s Scottish Cup tie at Dundee United. The Ibrox chairman David Murray applied for an interdict on behalf of his company Carnegie for a £30,000 debt owed by Airdrie.”

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  3. realshocks


    Bepuzzled! 
    As a confirmed Helenophile who lived in that fair land for many years, walking on the dirt trodden by the apostles themselves, I can do no more than sigh at this mention of a “Protestant Orthodox Bishop”. 

    I did draw the line when a Protestant Greek Orthodox Bishop asked if I could explain the West of Scotland divides to him and could only say no.GK Chesterton said that Christianity had not be tried and found wanting but never tried at all.

     

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  4. BC_Celt


    John, you missed your vocation in life.  I can just hear that on Round The Horne.   Whether it would be by Kenneth Horne or Kenneth Williams I’m not quite sure.  I can hear it in either voice.

    Oh, definitely Kenneth Williams in this case – Kenneth Horne would have just too much gravitas in his voice for this (just before he would burst out laughing, I think).
    Thanks for the reminder of one of the most irreverent (and subversive) radio shows of all time. Up there with the Goons for me.

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  5. upthehoops


    BECT67APRIL 16, 2018 at 20:37

    I don’t know what stage the inevitable ‘sacking’ of Graham Murty has reached

    =============================

    According to reports this morning Murty is being backed rather than sacked with Kenny Miller to be himself sacked, and Lee Wallace suspended. 

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  6. Carfins Finest

    Carfins Finest


    https://t.co/1LY3usoxy9
    UEFA Licensing board Fines and Bans for teams that have broken FFP rules 2017-2018 season. Hope this link works. Worth a read.

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  7. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    BECT67APRIL 16, 2018 at 22:0804

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  8. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    valentinesclown
    April 16, 2018 at 23:52
    =======================================

    That is totally depressing. We are in the 21st century FFS, or at least some of us are.

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  9. jockybhoy


    SLIMJIM APRIL 16, 2018 at 15:40
    “Re – BBC Dispute. Rangers withdrew the press privileges from ONE reporter for approaching the match supervisor requesting whether any fans had been ejected/arrested for sectarian singing. If this was standard practice and something that he did in every game then no problem. It wasn’t & he didn’t.”

    Was it a legitimate question from an accredited journalist? Yes. Whether he asked it at every game is irrelevant. Did he or didn’t he ask it at Celtic? No idea, and but that’s not the team in Ibrox’s business. That he didn’t ask it at Falkirk v Brechin for example is immaterial. If that was the sole reason for the ban it is indefensible in a press relations context, especially given the Government at that time had legislation specifically focused on this issue. I’m not sure if going to the supervisor to ask the question is normal practice but at best this would be a “please come through official channels” admonishment not a ban, and if this was the case I’d asik why did the reporter not feel they’d get the answer through those official channels.

    “Rangers fulfill their contractual agreements with the media on a weekly basis with every other organisation but the BBC have chosen not to send reporters to games, press conferences etc.”

    Firstly, no they don’t as “Rangers (sic) banned this reporter for no reason than he/she asked a legitimate question they didn’t like. Secondly, the way the media works is if you ban one reporter, who is an employee and there in the context of representing the organisation they work for, you effectively ban them all – an organisation can’t dictate which reporter covers them (or doesn’t) as that gives them a chance to influence coverage of their organisation (I know, I know…), so ban one, they won’t send another.

    Redlichtie “there’s been a Murter” LOL’d

    Have to say, I was astonished at the cobwebbed “squirrel” coverage given by the MSM yesterday to a podcast interview with McCoist about the glory days of actual Rangers (IL). They’d apparently beaten the English Champions and Stuart McCall went out on the lash (with Walter’s blessing) and said when quizzed the next day said it wasn’t a problem because their next game was “only Celtic”. WTF? That was 25 years ago. Talk about harking back to glory days…  The football world’s changed a lot in 25 years… for most of us anyway.

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  10. valentinesclown

    valentinesclown


    Cluster One 

    Apparently according to Lee Wallace it was a world class bust up in accordance with the Ibrox club traditions.

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  11. redlichtie


    VALENTINESCLOWN
    APRIL 16, 2018 at 23:52
     Really ffs
    http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2018/04/a-deeply-worrying-influence-at-ibrox.html
    —————————————————————————-
    “But these days much of the fare coming in or being appointed is considerably below average, and if we’re going to have rubbish, we might as well have Bluenose rubbish than filling our rafters with mediocre men who have more in common with the East End than Govan.”
     
    Is this possibly a good sign? Reflecting “acceptance” on the Kubler Ross scale?
     
    “The five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the one we lost. They are tools to help us frame and identify what we may be feeling. But they are not stops on some linear timeline in grief.”
     
    Now the first two however are perhaps greater challenges….
     
    Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

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  12. slimjim


    JOCKYBHOY.
    I believe this was one of many occasions in which the journalist concerned framed his article to suit a pre-set agenda. 
    He had his press privileges withdrawn, he was  NOT banned so lets be clear on that. There was nothing to stop him buying a match ticket.

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  13. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    John ClarkApril 16, 2018 at 23:53 
    bigboab1916April 16, 2018 at 21:11‘…Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for.’______________________ Was that the first and last time our SMSM spoke truth about what Liquidation of a football club meant?There was no ‘holding company’ in 1872, nor in 2012.There was only one legal entity that had been the shareholding member of a professional football league and on that account had held a certificate of entitlement to membership of the SFA.Liquidation meant death. As the SMSM knew fine and well.What mystical, magical, miraculous power was it that very, very quickly got them to become liars themselves in defence of even more monstrous liars?Is it the same magical power that is spinning out the ‘investigation’ into UEFA licence awards? Seven, going on eight months? If we are talking about sackings, it’s the sacking of the Compliance Officer that we should be demanding!
    __________________

    It is the lack of any explanation from the whole of the media for this incredible about-turn, from dead to alive, that shows they actually have no valid reason for their ‘same club’ stance. There was clearly no legal or moral reasoning put to them for this change, just an instruction, or perhaps an ultimatum, from Charles Green, possibly via Jim Traynor, who rather quickly, thereafter, became TRFC’s PR man.

    This change isn’t an additional proof of the death of Rangers; it is, though, evidence that there really is no counter argument to the fact that the current entity at Ibrox is a new club!

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  14. Nick


    Bit late but having been off on holiday a few thoughts:
    – Two very one sided but entertaining cup semi finals in what was a decent advert for our game.  My only bug bear is why do we make Motherwell and Aberdeen play to a half empty Hampden, surely Easter Road or Tynecastle would have been more appropriate?
    – Another very competent performance from Bobby Madden who for me is emerging as the best of a bad bunch in terms of our referees.  He correctly gave Celtic some very big decisions and kept the game flowing.  Can we put the childish conspiracy theories about masons and Rangers season tickets to bed now?
    – The post split fixtures.  We’ll have the same arguments every year, it does give some clubs an advantage every year and arguably isn’t ideal for the integrity of the competition.  On the flipside we now have some mouthwatering and very competitive fixtures to look forward to over the next 5 weeks.  I think I’m on balance a fan of it although I do recognise the downsides and anomalies it causes. 

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  15. Corrupt official

    Corrupt official


        How many more times, can Sevco remove the burning toast from the heat, blow the flames off….Then stick the embers back under the grill again?
        Like one of those mental-case snipers on the rampage, who turns the gun on himself, they will do for themselves
       We should be concentrating on the SFA. The guys who supplied the K-47 and ammo.

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  16. torrejohnbhoy


    As reported by Phil a couple of weeks ago,the latest Rangers Fan Group makes its introduction.Seems to me its aims are the same as the others:

    Follow Rangers‏ @FollowRangersPR 2h2 hours ago
    FOLLOW RANGERS SHAREHOLDERS LTD The committee members are delighted to announce the launch of Follow Rangers Shareholders Ltd. We are a wholly independent, not for profit group aimed at increasing fan ownership in our shared love: Rangers FC. Follow Rangers has several aims:
    – To provide Rangers fans with a method of directly owning shares in Rangers. – To challenge those who continually seek to undermine or to destabilise Rangers. – To work alongside any groups or individuals who have a genuine desire to help Rangers FC succeed.

    While we acknowledge and appreciate the hard work undertaken in the past by fan group volunteers, we believe there is a desire among Rangers fans for a wholly independent supporters’ group which will stand up for them.
    Follow Rangers‏ @FollowRangersPR

    For further information on Follow Rangers, please see the following: Web: http://www.followrangers.com 

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  17. wottpi


    VALENTINESCLOWN
    APRIL 16, 2018 at 23:52
     Really ffshttp://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2018/04/a-deeply-worrying-influence-at-ibrox.html
    —————————————————————————————————
    Some football fans are really ‘away wi the goalie’.
    So given such warped logic can I blame Bluenose agents Naismith and Lafferty for Hearts current standing on 6th in the league.
    Presumably Kris Boyd will be easing off on the goal scoring in the post split fixtures etc etc etc.
    Steven Whittaker at Hibs must be having a real dilemma given his manager is the anti-christ. 🙂

    I was reminded elsewhere on social media,  when Ibrox noise were posting,  of this similarly deluded nonsense.
    Maybe we can find them a nice padded cell together.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bntfUA6TmLs
     

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  18. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    torrejohnbhoy
    April 17, 2018 at 11:33
    ==================================

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/rangers/new-shareholder-organisation-set-up-for-worldwide-fans-of-rangers-36814401.html

    I’m sure someone will come along with an exclusive in no time. No doubt claiming Phil got the information from him.

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  19. jockybhoy


    SlimJim April 17, 10:08

    Not banned? So he could attend press briefings even after his press privileges were withdrawn?? Or shall we be clear that he was excluded from the normal privileges associated with his job and what is required of him to do that job effectively.

    A journalist with a pre-set agenda?!? Heaven forfend! Or is that known as running with a story? Surely investigating and asking questions to ensure they have the facts correct is journalistic best practice?

    And if there were no arrests/ejections because there was no sectarian singing then happy days surely? Why wouldn’t that be answered? Shout it from the rooftops!

    Or were there no arrests or ejections but there WAS sectarian singing, in full defiance of the now defunct Offensive Behaviour at Football Act but which was then the law of the land? That’d be a story wouldn’t it? But not one showing the fans of the team (currently) at Ibrox in a very good light… so maybe bury the facts and obstruct the journalist?

    But he could have bought a ticket? That’s mighty nice of them and I’d suggest only what the law demands, but that doesn’t solve his being “banned” – and let’s be clear that he was, as I understand it, excluded individually from Rangers organised press-events his peers and competitors had access to.

    Unless of course, you know different…after all you seem to be aware of “many occasions” in which this journalist wrote the story he (and his editor) saw fit to publish.

    Oh for the days of succulent Minty lamb and a cellar-full of the finest reds, eh? Would have been a lot easier to manage the press back then (hypothetically-speaking of course…).

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  20. woodstein

    woodstein


    Attachment

    jimbo
    April 16, 2018 at 23:24
    —————————————————– 
    BC_Celt
    April 17, 2018 at 05:19  
    —————————————————–
    Agree.

    10

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  21. John Clark


    torrejohnbhoyApril 17, 2018 at 11:33
    ‘….the latest Rangers Fan Group makes its introduction’
    _____________________
    “……FOLLOW RANGERS SHAREHOLDERS LTD , company number SC589717,
    statement of Capital : GB pounds 1
    Class of shares: Ordinary
    Number allotted 1
    Aggregate nominal value £1.00   (paid)

    Shareholder(s)  1

    Officers   Directors 1”
    —–
    I am fundamentally very, very ignorant of these matters, but I rather thought that being incorporated as a company ‘limited by shares’ was not the best sort of legal structure for a not-for-profit organisation?

    There appears to be no ‘Memorandum of association’ describing what the business will actually  do to fund  its attempts to buy shares.
    Will it just be accept regular cash deposits from fans who might wish to end up collectively owning shares, or what? 

    I’m not having a go at fan initiatives to save a club, just puzzled at the choice of business model.

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  22. jimbo

    jimbo


    Round the Horne is on tomorrow morning at 8.30 am Radio 4 extra.

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  23. Corrupt official

    Corrupt official


         I can’t help but feel Murty missed a trick, by replying, “No”, when asked if he could explain the lack-lustre display against Celtic… There are clearly divisions in the playing squad, and others seeking an exit. He was undermined by Big Liar shortly before, and the lack of respect from the players, telling.
        I really hope Murty is not lost to the Scottish game at the end of all this, as he has a lot to offer. 
        Sevvies should remember, that twice now, he has answered the call, taking up a position that no seasoned manager fancied. There is little to suggest any manager fancies it now. 
        I would suggest that this is the reason he “appears” to have board-room backing for now. A board not exactly synonymous with the word “Loyalty”. …….
       But something tells me, he will soon be the “Escape goat”.
       Season tickets do not themselves sell.

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  24. AmFearLiathMòr

    AmFearLiathMòr


    redlichtieApril 17, 2018 at 10:00

    “But these days much of the fare coming in or being appointed is considerably below average, and if we’re going to
    have rubbish, we might as well have Bluenose rubbish than filling our rafters with mediocre men who have more in
    common with the East End than Govan.”
     
    Is this possibly a good sign? Reflecting “acceptance” on the Kubler Ross scale?
      

    Mmm, I think you’re a bit more generous than I.  My reading of that was ‘GET THAE F*NIANS TAE F*CK!’

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  25. watcher


    I hear that Dundee United are to be taken over by an American Group, lock stock and barrel.

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  26. jimbo

    jimbo


    I remember last summer being surprised at the level of transfer activity Pedro was involved in.  Of course we don’t know how much was spent up front but even so it was considerably more than I had anticipated given that they are allegedly ‘skint’.   The wages some of his signings are on, again is astonishing.  Paid more than most Celtic players.

    January was much more modest, a few loans involved.  More in keeping with their financial status.  hurrah!

    But it is this summer which is going to intriguing.  On the assumption they want to replace Murty and furnish a new manager with a signings budget, where is this money going to come from?  They have just been to Close Bros. for a loan.  Their cash flow seems to be problematic.  If there is a dip in ST sales, I can’t see the way forward to placate a very angry fan base.

    it’s going to be an interesting few months ahead.

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  27. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    Ibrox and Murray Park must be miserable places to be just now.

    It’s at critical times like this that a club could utilise a universally respected figure from within to calm everyone down, and be positive.  At TRFC I have no idea who that person could be.

    I do feel for Murty: IMO, he has actually done OK based on available resources, and the fact that he is just ‘helping TRFC out’ in the interim.  You know he will be punted without dignity when no longer required.  He deserves a golden goodbye at least for stepping into the breach – twice.

    Suppose the pressure is on to have a new face as manager – to shift the ST’s.
    A new manager, with big promises of a new team / squad for next season, and mibbees a few players from the World Cup…the usual boll*x copy/pasted by the SMSM.

    Don’t think the Ibrox pantomine will stop anytime soon – and definitely not, as long as King is still involved.

     

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  28. Jingso.Jimsie

    Jingso.Jimsie


    STEVIEBC

    APRIL 17, 2018 at 15:24

    It’s at critical times like this that a club could utilise a universally respected figure from within to calm everyone down, and be positive.  At TRFC I have no idea who that person could be.
    ————————————————-

    That’s Stewart Robertson’s job.

    Somebody will have to tell him to do it as he hasn’t the nous to do it himself. I suspect he’s waiting for someone higher up the food chain to suggest he send for a rubicund, cardigan-wearing chap smelling of Extra Strong Mints.

    Walter Smith, come on down!

    (I know that won’t happen, but it’d be great fun if it did 151020)

    Edit: Thanks for the super-speedy thumbs down, Walter or Stewart!

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  29. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    jimboApril 17, 2018 at 14:15 
    I remember last summer being surprised at the level of transfer activity Pedro was involved in. Of course we don’t know how much was spent up front but even so it was considerably more than I had anticipated given that they are allegedly ‘skint’. The wages some of his signings are on, again is astonishing. Paid more than most Celtic players.January was much more modest, a few loans involved. More in keeping with their financial status. hurrah!But it is this summer which is going to intriguing. On the assumption they want to replace Murty and furnish a new manager with a signings budget, where is this money going to come from? They have just been to Close Bros. for a loan. Their cash flow seems to be problematic. If there is a dip in ST sales, I can’t see the way forward to placate a very angry fan base.it’s going to be an interesting few months ahead.
    ____________________

    TRFC are stuck between that great big rock and that very hard place. They have to sell lots of season tickets – at least as many as last season. They have, at their own admittance, to make it to the league stages of the Europa Cup (if not the CL). They have to start paying for last summer, and January, signings, as well as repay the Close Brothers’ loan.

    To sell season tickets in such numbers, and to give themselves a realistic chance of reaching the Europa League proper, they have to rebuild the squad with a better quality of player than they have at present. That is going to cost money. Money for transfer fees. Money for signing on fees. Money for increased salaries, because better players come with bigger salary demands.

    So what do they do? Do they go all out for the silver (not gold) of the Europa League, hoping the supporters believe and buy the STs? Or do they rein it all in, come clean with the supporters and admit austerity, and digging deep, is the only way forward? And do they remember that going for broke, and European income, was what broke the original Ibrox club in 2012 (rather than holding on till the Supreme Court’s appeal decision)? 

    In some ways, not qualifying for Europe might be a very good thing for TRFC! At least it might make the way forward a bit clearer.

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  30. torrejohnbhoy


    The problem with TRFC & the Europa League is that to give themselves a reasonable chance of qualifying they’ll probably have to spend more on transfer fees,wages,etc than they could earn by actually winning the thing.They’ll also have to be active in the transfer market quickly as qualifiers start around the 2nd week in July.Not much time to bring in at least a handful of players & that’s what they’ll need,remembering the loanees will all be returning to their parent clubs.4 qualifying rounds unseed make qualification,in my opinion,unlikely but stranger things have happened.
    So the question is,are the board willing to splash out money they don’t have to firstly,bring in a manager,then the players he needs while not knowing how STs are selling.Remember,TRFC have circa 40k ST holders now & still can’t balance their books.If say around 10k don’t renew early,then there will be £4-5m less to play with already.An early exit could see that money lost for good.
    Of course.if the CoS do King for contempt & TOP actually take sanctions against him,then unless something changes in the boardroom,there may not be a bank,credit card,finance company to process ST payments anyway.

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  31. easyJambo


    Statement o’clock from Club 1872 (aka please give us more money)

    http://club1872.co.uk/news/club-1872-member-update-2/

    In common with all Rangers supporters, the directors of Club 1872 are extremely concerned by the disgraceful capitulation of the Rangers team that faced Celtic on Sunday. We have had contact from members asking us to convey their concerns to Rangers and can reassure them and the wider support that this has been done.

    Rangers supporters deserve a team which as a bare minimum shows pride and commitment in the club they represent. That pride and commitment was sorely lacking on Sunday and the responsibility for that must be borne at all levels of the club. What we have seen this season is not good enough and we know that the Rangers board and executive team are well aware of that fact. Rangers supporters will no doubt once again show their incredible support for the club through season ticket renewals but we now need to see real progress towards returning Rangers to the top of Scottish football with a management team and quality of player that can secure success.

    It is clear that a great deal of further investment is going to be required to take the club to the position that our supporters correctly believe it should occupy. Millions have been ploughed into the club by the current board and investors but it has not seen a satisfactory return on the pitch. We cannot just assume that because we are Rangers we will automatically return to the top at some point. It is going to take further investment, good decision making and everyone working together.

    Much of the responsibility for that progress is going to fall on the current RIFC board but we believe Rangers supporters, through Club 1872, can also shoulder part of the burden – because it’s our club. That is why we are asking supporters to join us and invest heavily in the club and also why we are in negotiations with RIFC about securing a board place. Supporters can play a major role in helping to take our club back to the top but we must accept that responsibility and not simply wait for others to do it for us. Everyone will have to play their part if we are to achieve the success that we all believe the supporters deserve.

    We fully expect to see a reaction from everyone at Rangers over the coming weeks to what we believe is a watershed moment. We expect the players to show the commitment and desire that was sorely missing from their performance on Sunday, in order to secure second place and European football for the supporters next season. We expect the board and management of the club to take decisive steps to ensure that the product on the park next season is of a considerably higher quality and rewards the supporters’ loyalty through difficult times. We also hope that the support will rally once again and join us to make sure that we make a significant, direct financial contribution to taking Rangers back to the top.

    View Comment
  32. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    EASYJAMBO
    APRIL 17, 2018 at 17:15

    join us to make sure that we make a significant, direct financial contribution to taking Rangers back to the top.
    =========================

    So Club 1872 is going to raise 30M / 40M / 50M… to resurrect a dead club?
    21

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  33. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    easyJamboApril 17, 2018 at 17:15

    Isn’t the purpose of Club 1872 to buy shares in the club? If I am correct, then, unless the long awaited share issue takes place quite soon, then Club 1872 won’t be able to make much of a difference to TRFC’s finances, and certainly not enough to sign the quality of players they are suggesting TRFC should sign!

    Club 1872, in their current level of support, might make a reasonable difference to TRFC if the club was reasonably solvent, but it’s just bailing the boat out with a spoon as things stand.

    View Comment
  34. Carfins Finest

    Carfins Finest


    ……back to where we rightly belong….
    Best they can hope for over the next 10 years is 2nd spot in the league though not guaranteed and maybe a cup run all the way to the final then anything can happen. This like any other team in the league is now the stark reality. No god given right to sneer down at everyone else and no god given right to believe that they belong on a higher perch. Karma has been served.

    View Comment
  35. slimjim


    As a Rangers supporter and a non member of Club1872 i felt the statement from @4Ladshadadream encapsulated the feelings of the support far better than the one EJ posted above. 

    View Comment
  36. Auldheid


    CARFINS FINESTAPRIL 17, 2018 at 07:10
    26
    0 Rate This
    https://t.co/1LY3usoxy9UEFA Licensing board Fines and Bans for teams that have broken FFP rules 2017-2018 season. Hope this link works. Worth a read.
    ===========
    The most interesting case is that of Sion who had an overdue payable of transfer money at 31 March.
    Sion misrepresented the position at 31st March so a licence should not have been granted. This will apply to the 2011 licence issued to RFC.
    In justifying their decision CFCB made a couple of references to the precedence set by the Giannina FC case, which is part of the case built under Res12.
    Interestingly CFCB did not pursue whether the Sion misleading was intentional, but that did not alter the fact that the licence should not have been awarded and Sion were fined the amount they earned from participation in the EL as result of licence being awarded incorrectly.
    The position at Rangers is slightly  complicated by the fact that those responsible for applying for the licence ie SDM’S Board, who presented the status of the licence as “potential” when it wasnt after accepting QC advice to accept the liability, were not the same Board who continued with the same misleading line in June and Sept and neglected to provide SFA with key documentation before UEFA were presented with the list of licenses granted in May 2011.
    Res12 requested that the process in 2011 be investigated, not just the granting and based on the evidence from March to Sept 2011 it  is stretching credulity way past breaking point to say that the misrepresentation at each stage was not intentional.
    That of course might not deter the SFA or SPFL given they have already  accepted the LNS finding that no dishonesty was involved.
    After all they think they  can tell football supporters what they like and the supporters will buy it. 

    View Comment
  37. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    EASYJAMBOAPRIL 17, 2018 at 17:15
    3
    0 Rate This
    Statement o’clock from Club 1872 (aka please give us more money)
    ———-
    Confused as it is not Friday

    View Comment
  38. bfbpuzzled


    real shocks re orthodox bishops 
    The lad I was talking about was part of the schismatic mathewite sect which protested about one of the changes in Calendar and broke from the rest of the Church (from their point of view the Church broke from them) From the view of the Orthodox Orthodox he would certainly be described as  Protestant at least, Schismatic certainly and heretical possibly. He regarded himself as the genuine bishop although others would not.
    DBD the source of stable genius was one of Trump’s descriptions of himself – he is neither…
    Reminder to self -no more obscure references theological, current affairs or others as long as I can resist temptation I should be ok.

    View Comment
  39. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    Cluster OneApril 17, 2018 at 18:24

    Everyday is Friday when you’ve a desperate message to get out.

    View Comment
  40. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    ALLYJAMBOAPRIL 17, 2018 at 18:33
    THANK CRUNCHIE FOR THAT

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  41. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    I saw the Union Bears statement and though the first sentence smacked of acceptance .   “regarding the club in its current form ” ?  Sorry,can’t post a link .

    View Comment
  42. bigboab1916

    bigboab1916


    Attachment

    Sportsound commenting through Ian McCall that had BR tried all formations they would never have beaten PSG, and this type of play was on display on Sunday, Griffiths,Roberts etc coming off the bench replacing players valued in the millions with players valued in millions, Lord Nimmo Smith must be sitting somewhere cringing that silly statement no sporting advantage.

    View Comment
  43. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    EASYJAMBOAPRIL 12, 2018 at 18:44
    21
    0 Rate This
    There is another hearing next week in the case involving the Oldco v Duff & Phelps.
    LORD DOHERTY – C Munn, ClerkWednesday 18th AprilBy Order Between 9.30am and 10.00amP115/17 Note: RFC 2012 Plc for orders under para 75 – Shepherd & Wedderburn LLP – Wright Johnston & Mackenzie LLP

    View Comment
  44. jimbo

    jimbo


    Dark before Dawn,  You OK mate?

    View Comment
  45. jimbo

    jimbo


    Back to where we belong!

    This statement should be made illegal.

    Who has such a right?

    Has anyone ever heard a celtic supporter, player, manager, director coming away with such an outrageous statement?

    No, and you know that is true.  Craig Levien almost stepped over the mark recently with his ‘natural order’ comment. but stepped back. DG.

    No there is only one club who has the superiority complex to have that mistaken mindset.   You deserve nothing any more than any other team in Scotland.  Back to where we BELONG, who says?

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  46. upthehoops


    I see a key part of the latest Club 1872 statement is about them heavily ‘investing’ and asking other fans to do the same. In return they want a seat on the board. What do they think a boardroom seat is going to bring?

    View Comment
  47. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    UPTHEHOOPSAPRIL 17, 2018 at 20:32
    They have been trying for that seat on the board for 6 years now

    View Comment
  48. torrejohnbhoy


    I who would just like to ask,who,whilst holding ordinary fans cash,would recommend giving an interest free,unsecured loan,to a company that is already circa £20m in debt with a £3m + interest & costs(reported £4m total)loan secured against assets.
    Luckily,a legal expert happens to be company secretary of said distressed company whilst also being the guy with his hands on the purse strings of the “independent”  fans group.
    If I was a a member of Club IQ72,I think I’d be contacting the Law Society,then maybe,Police Scotland.

    View Comment
  49. torrejohnbhoy


    UTH.
    I see a key part of the latest Club 1872 statement is about them heavily ‘investing’ and asking other fans to do the same. In return they want a seat on the board. What do they think a boardroom seat is going to bring?
    ————————
    Up til now they have not put one penny into the club by buying shares but some Ex shareholders like Ashley are now quids in because this shambles paid him 27p per share when the TOP set a price of 20p.All monies spent til’ now have either gone into ex shareholders pockets or interest free,unsecured loans to a distressed company.The members of Club IQ72 are almost certainly going to lose their donations(they thought it was an investment.They believed the crooks cos’ They Are Real Rangers Men!).
    Tonight,this organisation are brazenly trying to con their members into supplying even more money to help what is a distressed business.The Law etc doesn’t recognise the “club”.If/when they loan cash to this basket case it will almost certainly be lost.Stevie Wonder could see this but Blair etc are still trying to extort cash from the ordinary fan.I find it dis appointing but not surprised that Mr Blairs employers seem to turn a blind eye to this obvious conflict of interest.
    The new wee fly in the ointment is the birth of yet another fans group,wanting the same fans to give them their cash rather than to IQ72.There is not an infinite supply of gullible folk willing to part with their hard earned so a wee bit of inter fan group war is on the Horizon.
    To be fair to the new group though,they promise to be transparent with anyone who decides to enrol.
    Your £30 joining fee,annual subscriptions etc will be used for “running costs”.you can also pay from £5 per month.
    Looks a good deal to me.

    View Comment
  50. jimbo

    jimbo


    Have you ever heard of a more conflicted guy (recently) than Blair?

    Do the Bears love Blair?

    Seriously, do they love him and trust him?

    View Comment
  51. redlichtie


    Knowing how sophisticated many of these supporters are (!) I was wondering if what was being lined up was a purchase of any shares that King is forced to buy under the ToP instruction?

    Keep them with RRM and gain a seat on the Board as just reward…King graciously allowing the purchase to take place to facilitate that…

    Could they really be that naive?

    Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

    View Comment
  52. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    The big discussion amongst the Rangers’ support on social media tonight seems to be whether Hummel are a good shirt sponsor or not.

    There is also a debate on whether the £15m deal is per year, or the total over 3 years … or 4.

    It beggars belief sometimes. 

    View Comment
  53. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    Just for perspective, here is a breakdown of the Rangers’ revenue from the last audited accounts.

    Gate receipts and hospitality £21.6mSponsorship and advertising £1.5m Broadcasting rights £3.6mCommercial £0.4mOther revenue £2mTotal revenue £29m

    Assuming the shirt deal is included in either Sponsorship and Advertising or Other (I would guess the former). That would be a pretty impressive increase on the shirt sponsor alone. 

    I’m sure it will be announced to a massive fanfare. There no way the club would not make a huge deal out of that. 

    View Comment
  54. jimbo

    jimbo


    It’s now 10.30pm.

    Anything goes after 10.30pm.

    paddy,  I’ve discovered a briallient singer songwriter called George Ezra.  I cant begin to tell you how good he is.  I don’t know how to bring football into this.  I’ll away and checkout Wiki.

    Well it seems no football interest.  But both his parents were pastors.  I love them already.  

    He went to the Bristol, British and Irish Modern Music Institute.  What’s not to like?

    Paddy, he’s No5 with a great song – Paradise.

    Last attempt at bringing football into this, he looks like a No. 10.  For Celtic.  (handsome devil).

    View Comment
  55. bigboab1916

    bigboab1916


    “I don’t know how to bring football into this”

    Did he not sing a song wearing a pair of football boots there was not much written about it at the time. might have been a rumour.

    View Comment
  56. jimbo

    jimbo


    Paddy, Boab, Tell me you didn’t love that!  I think it’s amazing.  Take care.

    View Comment
  57. bigboab1916

    bigboab1916


    JimboApril 17, 2018 at 23:04
    Paddy, Boab, Tell me you didn’t love that!  I think it’s amazing.  Take care.

    Thanks and you my good man have a good week.

    View Comment
  58. wottpi


    Of course a clubs strips has two potential income streams

    The kit deal itself
    https://www.footyheadlines.com/2017/08/2017-18-premier-league-kit-battle-puma-leading-kit-maker.html

    And the sponsorship on the front.
    https://www.totalsportek.com/football/premier-league-shirt-sponsorship-deals/

    The above links are for the EPL so where do folks think T’Rangers currently sit in relation to those types of deals givne the lowly status of the SPFL and the lack of any recent form in Europe.

    Celtics current New Balance kit deal was reported as being £6m /year (£30m over 5)

    The figures for the Celtic/Dafabet deal don’t seem to have been reported/guessed but you can look at the EPL gambling sponsors to maybe get a feel for it.

    With the right situation I think T’Rangers could earn decent cash from both kit and shirt sponsor but not to the extent many a Bear will think they are worth.

    It will be more than anyone in SPFL bar one.

    It may help them break even or give them a few more quid to play with for players but its not going to close the gap to Celtic nor make them unbeatable by others in the premiership.

    If it was to be Hummel for Ibrox then they are pretty low key at present so can’t see sugar daddy sums of cash being negotiated.

    https://hummel.net/about-hummel/sponsorships-football

    View Comment
  59. jimbo

    jimbo


    I’m going back over to CQN to try to cheer everyone up with my lovely song.

    View Comment
  60. Big Pink


    Jimbo
    Has anyone ever heard a celtic supporter, player, manager, director coming away with such an outrageous statement?

    Annoyingly yes. Celtic TV commentator last season when Celtic won (against Killie I think it was) to go top of the league for the first time in the season.

    A real clanger given the SFM ethos of eschewing self-entitlement, but few are immune to that infection.

    View Comment
  61. jimbo

    jimbo


    Was down in the pub this afternoon,  Michael the owner, gave me a programme from the Celtic V Zenit game, Feb. 15th.  I have been raving about this programme cover since I saw it.  It is a work of art.

    Was so happy to receive it, but it’s typical of him.

    Also a beautiful card from the Celtic Foundation for a small donation.

    I love the Celtic family.

    All the while I sat with a steelman, Mark, a lovely friend, who stayed for two more drinks than he intended, The wife had to come and pick him up!  I gave him the low down on the cup final.  He kept smiling!  Eejit!!

    View Comment
  62. jimbo

    jimbo



    Annoyingly yes. Celtic TV commentator last season when Celtic won (against Killie I think it was) to go top of the league for the first time in the season.
    A real clanger given the SFM ethos of eschewing self-entitlement, but few are immune to that infection.”

    The Celtic TV guy may have over egged it.  But he works for Celtic.

    On here?  I never sense over entitlement.   Not even by me.  Been through too many many bad times.  Most posters outwith Celtic know they are not going to win the league.

    Not exactly sure the point you were trying to make.

    View Comment
  63. finnmccool

    finnmccool


    WOTTPI
    Is this the Hummel with just over 120 staff and a turnover of 80 million Euro?
    I would politely suggest that this is where you end up when you piss off Puma.
    Would Sports Direct still be handling the merchandising?
    IMHO, the chance to make any real profits from kit sales and sponsorship is totally FUBAR.
    This is the most amateurish, dysfunctional and inept Board of Directors I have ever seen in 35 years of international business experience.
    This is what happens when hubris replaces financial acumen in a business.

    View Comment
  64. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    Shirley, even the most loyal of bears, who only get their footy ‘news’ from the SMSM…MUST have serious reservations about King and the future of TRFC?

    The Celtic game was bad enough, but the off field disruption with Halliday, Morelos, Miller and Wallace confirms that the morale in the playing squad is desperate.

    Will the bears buy the new squirrels to be dreamt up by Level42?  As with ‘No to Sevco’, the TRFC fans can wield the power only at ST renewal time.

    …I know…  19

    View Comment
  65. helpmaboab

    helpmaboab


    Hummel. “Our sponsorships focus on uniqueness. Unique culture, values and individuals daring to break conventions in order to reach their goals”.
    I wonder if they’re aware of the ‘uniqueness ‘of wading in someone else’s blood.
    See kulture? See Sevco.

    View Comment
  66. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    I fully expect Sports Direct still to be involved with Rangers next seasons, maybe quietly and in the background but I do not think Dave King “saw Ashley off” just as completely as some people seem to think.

    The accounts speak of breaking away from the deal signed by previous regimes and creating a new arrangement which they believe is markedly better for the club. It does not talk about totally breaking the connection. It was just the media which implied that.

    They also speak of the supporters returning to the megastore and using the online platform. The last time I looked Sports Direct were still the registrant for the online platform.

    I supsect, and it is only a guess just now, that the very public announcement that Dave King had fought Mike Ashley off (and it was only later he admitted paying £3m, when they couldn’t hide it) was a bit of PR agreed to by Ashley in order to boost sales.

    View Comment
  67. jimbo

    jimbo


    Superstore – 10am to 5pm
    Argyle St – 11am to 5pm
    Glasgow Airport – Normal hours
    Coatbridge – 12pm to 4pm
    East Kilbride – 11am to 5pm
    Clydebank – 11am to 5pm
    Livingston – 9am to 6pm
    Belfast – 10am to 5pm
    Dublin – 12pm to 6pm

    View Comment
  68. Ex Ludo

    Ex Ludo


    An extraordinary interview on Radio 4 this morning. The sports guy on there passed comment on the frank exchange of views between the Rangers manager and senior players following the cup semi final. Roddy Forsyth was consulted as the local expert to explain what was going on. There was mild criticism of DK in that he had not provided promised funding and this was holding Rangers back. The interviewer suggested that only Rangers could provide parity with Celtic. Mr Forsyth did not demur nor did he reference any other team or point out how close the teams were in 2nd, 3rd and 4th place. Essentially Mr Forsyth was taking his lead from Derek Johnstone in pleading for more money and repeating the Scottish football needs a strong Rangers mantra.

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  69. AmFearLiathMòr

    AmFearLiathMòr


    Interesting piece on Radio 4’s Today Programme’s 8.30 sports report. It was ostensibly about the fall out at Ibrox from the semi-final, and how they didn’t have their problems to seek etc. For the most part it was presented in ‘Here’s some news about Rangers and Celtic, the only Scottish clubs you’ve heard of.’ that they usually apply.

    What caught my attention was that the Club1872 statement was discussed between Gary Richardson(?) or whoever the presenter was, and Roddy Forsyth (‘Scottish football correspondent’), wherein it was implied that the call for funding was aimed at Dave King.  Really? I thought it was pretty explicitly calling for Club1872 members to step up?

    However, the really interesting bit was that He said that Rangers are a long way from challenging Celtic, and they couldn’t see that happening in the foreseeable future! Gary then suggested that Scottish Football needs a strong Rangers.  I was just about to swear at my Radio, fully expecting Roddy to concur with that, but… he didn’t.
    He said that Celtic fans would dismiss that notion, although Rangers fans would agree with it.  The important thing is that he then went on to say that supporters of others clubs wouldn’t care at all and wouldn’t agree that was the case.  From a financial, profile and sponsorship point of view, Scottish football just needed a viable challenger, whoever that was.

    Bit of a contrast from the usual. Might be because it was for UK wide consumption, rather than BBC Scotland?

    View Comment
  70. AmFearLiathMòr

    AmFearLiathMòr


    Ex Ludo – He did demur. 

    View Comment
  71. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    Ex LudoApril 18, 2018 at 09:18 
    An extraordinary interview on Radio 4 this morning. The sports guy on there passed comment on the frank exchange of views between the Rangers manager and senior players following the cup semi final. Roddy Forsyth was consulted as the local expert to explain what was going on. There was mild criticism of DK in that he had not provided promised funding and this was holding Rangers back. The interviewer suggested that only Rangers could provide parity with Celtic. Mr Forsyth did not demur nor did he reference any other team or point out how close the teams were in 2nd, 3rd and 4th place. Essentially Mr Forsyth was taking his lead from Derek Johnstone in pleading for more money and repeating the Scottish football needs a strong Rangers mantra.
    _____________________

    This might seem to only be a concerning aspect of the current  ‘fake news’ and biased reporting/commenting in a football context, but it goes much further than that. Radio 4 is a radio station that will be listened to, and be taken quite seriously by, any number of ‘City Chaps’; the City in which RIFC/TRFC are reputed to have sought, and in their early history, successfully achieved, funding, and no doubt still trawl.

    Now King’s reputation might well be shot within the City of London, but I’m sure the Ibrox PR machine, Level5, will continue to hope for some as yet unknown entrepreneur to come forward should/as soon as King leave(s) and are desperately pressing the BBC to push this agenda in England. Mention King is not putting up his ‘promised’ funding, suggesting that if he did, TRFC would be putting up a real challenge, while ignoring the actual level of funding that has been made, and the debt that has resulted, leaves a very wrong impression of the Ibrox reality. I bet he also missed mentioning the fact that the TRFC that is currently precariously in second place, is full of players as yet unpaid for, or on loan!

    The ‘journey’ has been travelled for some six years now, longer than the PR suggested it would, and they are still not secure as the second best team in Scotland, but this kind of free PR will give the impression they are, at least, second only to Celtic, south of the border, where, I can assure everyone, the PR has worked, and people still think Scottish football is just about Celtic and Rangers. 

    View Comment
  72. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    AmFearLiathMòrApril 18, 2018 at 09:31 
    Interesting piece on Radio 4’s Today Programme’s 8.30 sports report. It was ostensibly about the fall out at Ibrox from the semi-final, and how they didn’t have their problems to seek etc. For the most part it was presented in ‘Here’s some news about Rangers and Celtic, the only Scottish clubs you’ve heard of.’ that they usually apply.What caught my attention was that the Club1872 statement was discussed between Gary Richardson(?) or whoever the presenter was, and Roddy Forsyth (‘Scottish football correspondent’), wherein it was implied that the call for funding was aimed at Dave King. Really? I thought it was pretty explicitly calling for Club1872 members to step up?However, the really interesting bit was that He said that Rangers are a long way from challenging Celtic, and they couldn’t see that happening in the foreseeable future! Gary then suggested that Scottish Football needs a strong Rangers. I was just about to swear at my Radio, fully expecting Roddy to concur with that, but… he didn’t.He said that Celtic fans would dismiss that notion, although Rangers fans would agree with it. The important thing is that he then went on to say that supporters of others clubs wouldn’t care at all and wouldn’t agree that was the case. From a financial, profile and sponsorship point of view, Scottish football just needed a viable challenger, whoever that was.Bit of a contrast from the usual. Might be because it was for UK wide consumption, rather than BBC Scotland?
    ________________________

    Your post certainly changes the points I made in my previous one, but I still think it is relevant in as much as the effect reporters not giving the full facts might have. The difference between how you understood Forsyth’s words to Ex Ludo just shows how everyone can take what they hear differently and misunderstandings can grow wings. It just shows the value of this site, where the majority of us may well be of a similar mind, but there’s always someone able to correct our misconceptions whenever they arise.

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  73. Ex Ludo

    Ex Ludo


    A wee bit of deflection from RF I feel. He didn’t directly agree but said Rangers fans would want a strong Rangers. It was kind of stating the obvious as I am pretty sure RF was a debenture holder in the old club and therefore a fan himself. I was driving during the broadcast and perhaps missed the nuances in his (RF) in his reply. The criticism of DK could be the start of ripples in the SMSM as I see Mr Jackson is backing the Hampden 2.

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  74. wottpi


    I don’t know what possessed me but I took a look at Keith ‘Wealth Off the Radar’ Jackson’s piece today on the DR website re T’Rangers debacle.
    He is mildly critical of King and his decisions but the main thrust of his article is that he seems to be backing Miller and Wallace and is implying that, from having a relatively untried management team of Warburton & Weir, to the Caixinha fiasco and the upgrading of the U20 coach to manager, T’Rangers salvation over the last five games of this season should have been entrusted to the leaders of the Snap Chat group who have no coaching and managerial experience whatsoever.
    As someone said the other day the managers list at Sevco has been

    TV personality turned Gardener
    Janitor / Caretaker 1
    McCall
    City Trader turned Magic Hat
    Janitor / Caretaker 2
    Journeyman Clown
    Janitor / Caretaker 3
    What next?  – Trouble Makers.

    Jackson would be as well trawling the south side Glasgow parks for amateur team coaches to be given a shot in the Ibrox dug out.

    If that is what passes as informed and considered sports journalism then no wonder the circulation figures are dropping like a stone.

    At least when Hearts had the Riccarton Three they directed their ire in the right direction towards the boardroom and not the poor sap in the dug out who was having to deal with a chaotic and shambolic organization.

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