In Whose Interests

1003
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Any organisation’s plan for a top-down review of development would ordinarily be welcome news. Self evaluation, or even better independent evaluation is an ongoing process amongst professionals, individually and collectively alike. In the case of the SFA however a healthy scepticism is required. We are after all dealing with people who are the poster boys for self-interest and short-termism.

The SFA had previously commissioned a thorough review of the game (decades ago) by Rinus Michels, the inventor of “Total Football” and his report was largely ignored, partly because it implied criticism of the then current regime, and partly because it would cost money. A “Total Shambles”.

Henry McLeish also famously recommended (again after being commissioned to do so by the SFA) a more balanced approach to governance between the SFA and SPFL. This would have required a blazer or two having less say in the running of the game – and was therefore ignored.

Mark Wotte, the prominent Dutch coach hired as performance director at Hampden also suggested during his tenure that, in order to improve technique, more ball time should be provided for players in games.

He recommended seven a side competitions as the norm for u-15s (less players – more participation).

To accommodate this, club infrastructures would have required expensive upgrading, and coaches in clubs, not responsive to new ideas lobbied hard for the status quo.

The upshot is that we carried on with the same eleven-a-side games where many players hardly got a kick.
And in this classic Einsteinean definition of insanity, no overall improvements were to be found in the national team’s fortunes.

No wonder Wotte fled the scene in 2014 after three years.

Of course the details are debatable and subjective, but experience tells us;
Anything that
a) costs money or
b) upsets old boys’ networks
has a tendency to be hidden out of sight.

The recent “announcement” is merely a reaction to a couple of poor results, caused in part by inaction in the wake of previous reports’ recommendations.

An increasing number of observers of our game refer to an inferior mindset amongst players in Scotland, that we accept losing as the norm.

Hardly surprising that such a mindset is prevalent amongst professionals.
They must despair at the chronic self-interest, ineptitude and fecklessness of the “leaders” of our sport – an organisation that appointed Gordon Smith as CE (think about that for a minute) based on who his pals were, where McGregor and Petrie can become senior officers – “because it’s his turn!” – despite being unqualified squares in a round ball game, and where fairy-tales take precedence over reality.

As long as the blazers have a seat on the SFA bus, nothing will change.

1003 COMMENTS


  1. I wouldn't normally post an SMSM link, but this is an ET article which actually includes some comment on the RIFC financials.

    Matthew Lindsay seems to have gone off message to mention;

    "…They should endeavour to achieve self-sustainability with as much vigour as they strive to land the Scottish title…"

    [Wonder how long the article will remain online?]

    ========

    https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/18011864.rangers-pursue-self-sustainability-vigour-scottish-title/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor

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  2. StevieBC 4th November 2019 at 10:2

    '..Matthew Lindsay seems to have gone off message ..'

    +++++++++++++++

    If he is writing on his own initiative , he's very brave. 

    But perhaps some of the Ibrox board members are ready now to square up to ordinary commercial reality and prepare the ground for a strategic shift to ensure survival first, and leave the pursuit of titles ( or the prevention of however many-iar) as a less fundamentally important aim.

    TRFC are not going to achieve anything if they die like RFC of 1872!

     

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  3. These PR people are never without a job however dodgy they may be. I guess Jack isn't overly concerned after his involvement with Craig Whyte and Charles Green . 

    Andrew Picken@BBCandrewpicken

    Jack Irvine, former editor of The Scottish Sun and chairman of Mediahouse PR agency, appointed director of campaign communications for The Brexit Party #GE2019

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  4. AvatareasyJambo 4th November 2019 at 11:02 These PR people are never without a job however dodgy they may be. I guess Jack isn't overly concerned after his involvement with Craig Whyte and Charles Green . Andrew Picken@BBCandrewpicken Jack Irvine, former editor of The Scottish Sun and chairman of Mediahouse PR agency, appointed director of campaign communications for The Brexit Party #GE2019

    _____________

    A liar's liar if ever there was one. Quite the Grand Slam with The Sun, RFC, TRFC and the Brexit Party. 

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  5. Following the glaring handball ref error on Saturday, and when the Head of Referee Operations post is vacant… 

     

    And following the RIFC financials – and their increasingly desperate need to win some silverware…

     

    And in the continuing absence of VAR in Scotland…

     

    Could the League cup final not be managed by an EPL ref and assistants – with the help of VAR – for this showpiece final?

     

    Surely, until the Head of Referee Operations introduces VAR, there is a strong argument to have the LC and SC Finals managed by VAR experienced officials?

     

    This would also encourage the SPL refs to pull the finger out, and learn about VAR, and support its implementation ASAP.

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  6. Timtim @ 10.20

    I feel that Nov/Dec (in which Sevco have, on paper, a much tougher fixture list that Celtic) could be a crucial month.

    Should Sevco fail to win the league Cup and are , say, 6 points behind Celtic by the year's end, then the picture becomes much darker for them, and Morelos, despite Gerrard's protests to the contrary, could well be on his way.

    Minor points – Sevco's next three games in Europa League are:-

    Porto (H); Feyoonord (bound to have the Advocaat bounce(?) (A); and Young Boys (H) – and I'm not so sure they will qualify – but then, maybe that's my paranoia! 

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  7. StevieBC 4th November 2019 at 13:31

    Could the League cup final not be managed by an EPL ref and assistants – with the help of VAR – for this showpiece final?

    ==============================

    I'me very much an advocate of VAR, but after the latest howlers in the EPL this weekend, I wouldn't want their referees or their interpretation of the rules when using VAR anywhere near the Scottish game.

    —————————-

    It was a horrible injury suffered by Gomes, but a ridiculous decision to send Son off.

    The ref correctly decided the foul was was worthy of a yellow card, but once he saw the injury he changed it to red. The VAR official appears to have backed up the decision by saying something along the lines that the challenge endangered the safety of an opponent.

    That is nonsense. If that was the case, then every foul that results in a player being injured and having to be substituted should also be a red card offence.

    On the other weekend VAR controvesy, the Dele Alli handball, the rule change was meant to simplify the interpretation of handball, i.e. if it his your arm outside the body's normal silhouette then it is a penalty.  The VAR official appears to have justified the no penalty decision with mitigating circumstances that both players were challenging for the ball.

    It's the PMGOL that is making a nonsense of VAR decisions, by wanting to put in their own interpretation of the rules, rather than learning from the experience other countries so that we have a consistent application of the rules.

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  8. It is beyond belief that this Ibrox club are not being scrutinised by SFA.  The facts that we know about are there in black and white, over 11 million in debt and require 10 more to see out the season. ffs recent  history has shown us what happened to RFC (IL) through financial mis management. This new Ibrox club are in LC Final and 2nd in league with players they cannot afford.  Openly cheating again. Why is this allowed to happen, really why?  GLIB cold shouldered, no reprisals, no debate from smsm reference their accounts. Is this new club to big to fail, seriously because it is beyond logical thinking that they have not been approached on these accounts. I take it all clubs and fans are ok with this level of cheating?  Scottish Football should hold its head in shame.

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  9. ExLudo
    Very much appreciate the gift. Received with thanks. However we get invoiced for any support needs in July and January so we can amend our biannual fund-raising targets.
    You have reminded me though that I need to get Tris to campaign to encourage monthly PayPal or Standing Order subscriptions. We’ve lost a lot this year – through battle fatigue I guess 🙁

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  10. easyJambo 4th November 2019 at 14:40

    It was a horrible injury suffered by Gomes, but a ridiculous decision to send Son off.

    The ref correctly decided the foul was was worthy of a yellow card, but once he saw the injury he changed it to red. The VAR official appears to have backed up the decision by saying something along the lines that the challenge endangered the safety of an opponent.

    That is nonsense. If that was the case, then every foul that results in a player being injured and having to be substituted should also be a red card offence.

    ###################################

    A few points about the Gomes incident:

    Firstly, Son had already attempted to professionally foul Iwobe, intending to bring him down (he missed), before Iwobe passed the ball to Gomes. Son kept running & had a swipe at him, fouling him. Son had run approx. 40m & attempted to foul two players, succeeding once. It wasn't a heavy contact & the consequences could not have been foreseen. IFAB Law 12 indicates that 'excessive force' is required to 'endanger the safety of an opponent', which is a red card offence. If Son was 'reckless & acted with disregard to the danger to, and consequences for, an opponent', as per Law 12, then that's a caution.

    Secondly, I think the actions of Aurier in this sequence of play require further technical analysis. Had Son missed again, I think he was going to take out Gomes. From photographs, he makes contact with the sole of his boot on Gomes’ right ankle (Gomes is, by this time, already falling due to the contact from Son).

    Thirdly, the referee's apparent lack of response to the injury which occurred very close to him should be questioned. He has a duty of care to the players, yet seemed to display none.

    Fourthly, the reported statement by the EPL (which I can't find on premierleague.com) is confusing & confused. They may as well have issued the following: 'Look, a guy got a broken leg. That's got to be a sending-off, hasn't it?'

    Fifthly, I hope THFC appeal the red card. It was a knee-jerk response by panicked officials. 

    BTW, does anyone know when Sky's coverage of the (non-contact) Netball Super League commences? 

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  11. eJ, agreed that generally, the EPL refs and other FA's are still on a learning curve with the new technology.

     

    There are probably going to be many more howlers / frustrations until everyone is fairly comfortable with VAR.

     

    But, it would seem that VAR is here to stay, and will eventually feature in every top league, [e.g. to comply with UEFA demands.]

     

    So why is the SFA – apparently – waiting to be forced into introducing VAR?

    As mentioned before, other European leagues have already introduced their own versions of VAR from Belgium to Portugal – so cost can't be a  major barrier for the SPL to do likewise.

     

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  12. “So thanks to everyone on here and Follow Follow calling me a bigot and a taig at the same time, nice to know Gramsci's theories of contradictory consciousness are alive and well in Govan.”

    The above is a copy of a tweet by Mike Meehall Wood (Forbes article) It seems Follow Follow have discovered that he is Celtic minded. And now Gramsci enters the discussion. I thought he played for Fiorentina.

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  13. Happy to be corrected.(something i was looking for but this caught my eye)
    The last time RIFC issued shares is when they lost the Mike Ashley retail case back in Oct. (easyJambo 2nd October 2019 at 12:12
    23 0 Rate This

    RIFC has just notified Companies House that they have issued another 34,904,703 shares at 20p a share.

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history
    ………………………………………………………….
    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premiership/4785866/rangers-sports-direct-mike-ashley-court-compensation/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1569946531
    …………
    The latest battle between Gers and the retail giants kicked off at 10.30am in front of judge Lionel Persey QC. 2 Oct 2019. Now they are issuing shares on the back of a bad set of accounts.
    Will they be issuing more shares on Dec 9?

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  14. @C1 22.00

    "Will they be issuing more shares on Dec 9?"

    I think the other Directors have indicated that there is no more coming from them . King though has said he will put up 5m through Laird , that is approx 10% added to his shareholding of 26.6% which takes him well over the 30% limit where he is obliged to make an offer to all other shareholders but as already mentioned he is barred from doing so for 4 years . He may attempt to claim they are not his shares directly but would belong to his family trust but that should be seen as acting in concert with him and I would doubt he would get away with it. The accounts indicate the true value of shares is closer to 6p than 20p so outside investors won't be attracted at that price. Even the money launderers would get better terms elsewhere than 30p in the£1 . Club 1872 have nothing left in the kitty and a general offering at the best of times hasn't been attractive but 2 weeks before Christmas and so soon after the accounts have been shown to be toxic ……. I doubt they would even cover the costs of a share issue adding even more debt to the pile. Is anyone going to buy anything from this shop when they suspect the liquidation sale is just around the corner. That goes for players as well .

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  15. “One thing I've learned from today is that apparently, I'm an example of Schrödinger's Tarrier: too stupid to understand finance but also wily enough to control the media.”

    Another Mike Meehall Wood tweet. Schrödinger being channeled this time.

     

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  16. When the TOP required DK to make an offer for the remaining shares and asked for proof of funds, was it not cash from a dividend from Laird that he offered, before allegedly running into problems with getting the money out of SA, then having his nominated intermediary rejected by the TOP, then being found by the TOP to have not contacted Investec as he had claimed to have done, before further delays with Investec meant that by the time the TOP said enough, he had sold enough shares to his pals to prevent the offer being voted through and therefore no cash from Laird was required?

    This time no guarantee of the funds from Laird has been provided. Am I remembering this incorrectly, or is this another worthless promise from DK?

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  17. @macfurgly 23.04

    I think you are correct in that it was through Laird that the cash for the offer was made available , although he didn't have to buy the shares (after manipulating the %ages) he did have to deposit the cash in the UK , which if I remember cost him over £1m in charges . This time as you say there is no binding agreement that guarantees the promised funding from Laird will be delivered . If according to P McG it was asked for in return for a "watering down" of the going concern warning but not given then that indicates to me there is a serious doubt it will be forthcoming. The going concern warning is extremely damaging and lessens the possibility of outside investment or further loans so if he fully intends to step up to the plate why not give that guarantee? The interesting thing is the first tranche of that 10m is needed NOW , who is going to blink first ?

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  18. Cluster One 4th November 2019 at 18:50 

     

    Auldheid 4th November 2019 at 16:56
    ………………..
    I hope when this is concluded the Res 12 guys get back every penny spent.

     

    ======================

    It is a thought……

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  19. macfurgly 4th November 2019 at 23:04

    '.., or is this another worthless promise from DK? '

    +++++++++++++++

    I fairly recently mentioned the reference to 'judicial knowledge' ( stuff that a judge knows from being an ordinary citizen who reads newspapers, watches telly, keeps abreast of the world) being legitimately applied  where relevant in arriving at a judgment in a particular case. 

    And I've just realised that I have sat in a court-room in a case where the judge clearly seemed not to be aware of the  general context in which the case was being brought .

    It was a civil case in which the person against whom the action was being taken was well known to have been a serial liar (and had been characterised as such by a  judge in a jurisdiction furth of Scotland.)

    Had the judge been as aware as the man in the street  who takes an ordinary intelligent interest in the everyday news  he/she might well have held the guy to have been in criminal contempt of court 

    Instead, he/she just told him to do now what he had been told to do by the Court, and everything would be fine, and the fact that he hadn't done so for about a feckin year was neither here nor there.]

    (As a quite separate aside ,it seems to me that while the wee ned who steals your car goes to jail, the people whose lies and greed kill a feckin football club are still allowed to walk tall)

    They look after their own, them in the world of business. 

     

     

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  20. Auldheid 5th November 2019 at 00:30

    '..It is a thought……'

    +++++++++++++

    Well, of course, Auldheid, if a successful criminal (or even civil) prosecution were to be brought against the SFA, RFC (IL) and (perhaps) UEFA itself , there might well be damages/restitution to be made to the victims of any alleged conspiracy to defraud.

    And expenses/costs of bringing that case awarded to the party bringing the suit,  the Res12 people!

    As you say, it's a thought , and one that sends me bed quite cheerful!

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  21. Timtim 5th November 2019 at 11:08

    ==========

    Graham Spiers was challenged by the Bella Caledonia Twitter account regarding the media silence over the Rangers accounts. His reply was pretty much along the lines he was fed up writing about problems at Ibrox and had received a ban from Rangers for doing so. Nonetheless it is quite incredible how Rangers themselves admit £10m is required to see out the season and nobody in the media thinks it is a major story. 

    I can only imagine the coverage were the situations in the two major Glasgow clubs reversed. Does anyone seriously believe Celtic would be spared in the way Rangers are? 

    I can only conclude the media, like Rangers themselves and their fans, and maybe even the SFA and SPFL are pinning everything on a title win and a shot at Champions League riches. 

    This movie is very familiar. None of them can say they weren't warned. 

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  22. John Clark 5th November 2019 at 00:31

    Care has to be taken when dealing with "judicial knowledge". Sometimes it includes things that you wouldn't expect it to and vice versa. Like most legal concepts it's practically limitless.

    One small example is that there is a difference between judicial knowledge and personal knowledge. For example, on more than one occasion an Appeal has been successful on the basis that the lower Court had taken into account previous convictions which had not been properly laid before the lower Court and admitted or proven. The Appeal Court view was that the previous convictions were not within judicial knowledge and not admissible. More than once the lower Court had proceeded as it did because the Judge, usually a Sheriff or a Justice of the Peace, was the person who had found the person Guilty and jailed or fined them. Personal knowledge, which would appear better than general judicial knowledge, was not within judicial knowledge.

    What is or isn't within judicial knowledge; Tuesday follows Monday, English Law has to be proven, is an interesting philosophical subject but in the real world where you want to get things done the prudent approach is to assume you have to prove everything. In more than one case where GASH has been involved I don't understand why, when issues of credibility arise, the opposing party's List of Authorities does not include the South African Court Decisions and the portions thereof, which are so familiar that none of us will ever again hear the phrase "glib and shameless" without thinking of GASH, read aloud to the Court. GASH might say that was in South Africa. Court should say so a South African Court would just ignore anything in a Scottish Decision.

    Who knows what weight it would carry but you wouldn't have to worry if it was or was not within judicial knowledge. We know that reference to it would not bring any shame; that's one of the few upsides to being shameless. We also know that reference to it would remind those who already knew and bring it to the attention of those who didn't know or who prefer to ignore or forget. 

    Facts, judicial or otherwise, can be awkward. Even more awkward can be legal fiction, eg GASH is as honest as you are or I am.

    I can't speak for you but I'm not having that.

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  23. AvatareasyJambo 5th November 2019 at 11:35 0 0 Rate This How other sports deal with financial doping. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50300756

    Thanks EJ. Was just about to post that. 
     

    interesting parallels with EBTs I think. Just as well Scottish football doesn’t have millionaires with spare cash to “co-invest” with players in property deals. To busy funding the day to day operations of their football companies 

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  24. And yet again, since the release of RIFC financials 4 days ago, and the questions / risks they pose to Scottish football…

     

    there's not a peep from either Maxwell or Doncaster.

     

    No leadership.

    No concern.

    Totally 'on message' along with the SMSM: nothing to see here.

     

    …and for consistency, not a peep from any of the other 41 senior clubs either.

     

    Yes, it is feeling like 2011/12 again – and will the eventual outcome be the same?  indecision

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  25. @upthehoops 12.11

    The media have done immense damage to the clubs* , They ushered in Craig Whyte on a tissue of off the radar lies , they never held Murray to account, they played their part in the coup that got rid of Ashley and they have championed a glib and shameless liar with 41 criminal convictions to cause utter mayhem . They should have been exposing their recklessness instead of covering it up and justifying it . 

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  26. dom16 5th November 2019 at 12:21

    interesting parallels with EBTs I think. Just as well Scottish football doesn’t have millionaires with spare cash to “co-invest” with players in property deals. To busy funding the day to day operations of their football companies 

    =============================

    I see many more parallels between the current financial goings on with the post 9IAR and early EBT years, rather than the financial collapse that occurred before the club was sold to Whyte.

    In 2000 the oldco had already received substantial cash injections in return for shares from ENIC (Joe Lewis), and Ben Nevis/Metlika (Dave King). They also had access to commercial lending from Bank of Scotland. As now, all that funding was acquired and spent in pursuit of success on the park, both domestically and in Europe. 

    The latter years, 2009-11, were spent dealing with the financial realities of the excess spending over the previous decade. RIFC hasn't reached that point yet as it is still on the upward spending curve of the early 2000s.

    However, I think the financial realities will kick in much quicker than last time round, partly because of the limitations and reliance of the club on individuals' personal wealth, rather than on bank borrowing.

    Unless the speculate to accumulate model actually delivers the desired result, either this season or next, then the tipping point will be reached and the collapse could follow rapidly thereafter.

    What is different now is the level of scrutiny that is available to the internet bampots and other professionally qualified observers to what it actually going on behind the scenes.     

     

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  27. StevieBC 5th November 2019 at 12:33

    And yet again, since the release of RIFC financials 4 days ago, and the questions / risks they pose to Scottish football…

    there's not a peep from either Maxwell or Doncaster.

    No leadership.

    No concern.

    #######################################

    You know how these things work by now.

    There'll have been a convivial, off-the-record conversation involving representatives of RIFC/TRFC & Maxwell & Doncaster on Sunday at Hampden.

    Assurances will have been sought & received by both sides.

    Positions of plausible deniability will have been established.

    So it continues…

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  28. LUGOSI 5th November 2019 at 12:20

    '..there is a difference between judicial knowledge and personal knowledge. '

    +++++++++++++++

    Undoubtedly and indeed so,Lugosi, and I suppose that's why the Sheriff went to the lengths he did to justify his reference to the various histories. I'm not qualified to say whether the Sheriff was right , and  it's easy to see how restricted the concept of 'judicial knowledge' has to be. I found it very interesting, all the same.

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  29. J.j you're right, and with funny handshakes all round.

     

    But, after all these years, and after Craig Whyte's deviousness…

     

    You would think/hope that someone would be covertly recording EVERY conversation they have with the SFA/SPFL senior management?

     

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  30. easyJambo 5th November 2019 at 13:02

    My guess is that the end game is starting.

    As we have discussed previously, despite your continual optimism that someone may have enough sense at Ibrox not to spend every penny they have (and more), each year's accounts show that they cannot help themselves and the unknown unknowns continue to rise. 

    In the next accounts it will be the Ashley settlement and the eye watering wage bill for the recent signings and no doubt followed by their contract renegotiations  once agents want a higher rate for their client given they will all be lauded in the press as £10m plus players come the next two transfer windows.

    I have on countless times gone back to the oldco's accounts to highlight the previous figures and that even with significant income and attempts at multiple cash raising share issues Rangers went to the wall.

    I note the recent Forbes article alludes to the T'Rangers now beginning to max out their income and that the numbers are now similar to oldco 2011.

    The whole thing relies, once again, on winning the league, getting Champions League football and selling players for large profits.

    As Celtic have shown even when you have a clear run at it, you can only get all three now and again.

    The odds on T'Rangers achieving all three in this season or the next are, to my mind, not good.

    The whole thing is a big gamble.

    Once the 'investors' do a Brooks Mileson and pull the plug on funding it will all start falling apart.

    Unless the much hoped for 'Sugar Daddy' knight in shining armour  comes in with a huge buy-out, then the current board cannot keep coughing up these levels of cash for much longer.

     

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  31. Mibbees a wealthy investor will indeed – eventually – takeover RIFC/TRFC and quickly establish yet another World Record…

    by converting Ibrox stadium into the biggest tanning salon in the world?

    indecision

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  32. Just a wee thought. What if RIFC/TRFC are aware (or even just King) that admin is just around the corner and are planning a pre-pack administration. Could the SDI uncertainty over the final settlement amount be causing a delay in pulling the trigger? 

    Does anyone have any idea whether or not, should RIFC do a pre-pack, the fact that the SDI case has not been settled lead to it carrying over past an administration? By that, I mean, if they did do a quick in and out admin, screwing their current creditors, then as the SDI case has not been quantified or finalised, would that keep the final debt alive and so continue as a liability of  TRFC? That would, of course, be added to the continuing liability of the football debts and be rather off-putting for a would-be rescuer.

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  33. Timtim 5th November 2019 at 17:05

    https://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/news-category/current-affairs/1094-gersnet-review-of-rangers-accounts-2019

    =======

    Well, I've learned a new BS term to add to my list of financial jargon;

    "…underlying inherent loss…"  cheeky 

     

    Not totally sure what it means, but if you strip out certain operational costs in the hope they are non-recurring, and you reduce other operational costs just because…

    then you come up with a loss figure which – perhaps unsurprisingly – is much lower than the audited number.

     

    But, I think the author has been honest.

    Mibbees a Freudian slip, but RIFC is indeed an inherent, loss making company.

    Always has been – and always will be – loss making.

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  34. @AJ 17.14

    I don't think a pre pack is viable , Close have security for their loan and as you mention the footballing debts of 24m would still have to be honoured , not sure what the situation would be with Ashley or even if it would rid them of his retail contract so the debt it would be able to write off would be minimal . They have ran up the wrong type of debt , loans from themselves and to other clubs. Even liquidation may not help with a R3ngers* as to get a licence those pesky football debts would have to be honoured . They have also ran out of Real Rangers* men , who's left to step up that the fans will accept ? They really are between a rock and a hard place , they are dependent on King keeping his word and selling a Galactico for silly money . 

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  35. Allyjambo 5th November 2019 at 17:14
    ………….
    A few years ago 2016, neepheid (what ever happened to him?)asked the very nice people at the intellectual property office, asking whether a licence over IP survives a change of owner. He was referred to the Trade Marks Act 1994, section 28(3) which states that “Unless the licence provides otherwise, it is binding on a successor in title to the grantors interests”
    So if TRFC was liquidated, and ownership of the IP Transferred, whether to RIFC or another newco, then the licence for rangers retail to use the IP would remain in place.
    He also learned (from the IPO website) that once an owner of IP licences it, then unless the licence explicitly says otherwise, then the owner has no right to use the IP without the licensee’s consent.
    ………….
    I don’t know or can’t remember who now owns the IP as so many deals have been renegotiated or broken, it’s hard to keep track these days;-)

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  36. Allyjambo 5th November 2019 at 17:14

    ———————————

    Wouldn't a pre-pack mean a 15 point deduction in the league, expulsion from Europe, and quite probably a mutiny from the fans? 

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  37. upthehoops 5th November 2019 at 19:47

    '…Wouldn't a pre-pack mean a 15 point deduction .'

    +++++++++++

    In so far as it is an 'Insolvency Event' under the rules of the SPFL, it certainly would !

     

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  38. AJ @17.14

    Just a wee thought. What if RIFC/TRFC are aware (or even just King) that admin is just around the corner……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

    Would he hand over another £5m ? would he give a written guarantee to the auditors to avoid a going concern warning in the accounts? would he hand over money he knows can't be converted into equity and leave him at the end of the queue as an unsecured creditor?

    Now I'm not 100% sure what King would do but  I think 100% of us on here would answer No-No-No. Another question is what will the other Directors do if King refuses to stump up the £5m that he has promised publicly ? That's the £5m that is needed in November . I think they would then realise King just might not be a man they can trust . There comes a time when you have to stop throwing good money after bad . Is there any point paying 5m to get to January in the vague hope they can sell enough players to stave off an insolvency event and remember that Ashley is hovering over any monies that is pulled in and judgement on that is January 17th. Then there is the Close loan to settle in ( I believe) February. I think we have reached that tipping point and the scenes up the marble staircase are at this moment frantic. I always thought Brazils comments went deeper than just the cold shoulder status and they were a warning of impending doom. I haven't noticed if the club 1872 proposal for the 500k went through or not but even if it did ,it is too little too late 

    To judge the feeling of the contributors here can we have a thumbs up if you think admin will happen this season and a thumbs down if you think they can stagger on til next season . 

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  39. Timtim@22.40 

    I have given a thumbs up for an admin this season. I’m not an accountant but at what point does “trading whilst insolvent “ apply to the Club/Company if it doesn’t do so already?

    As regards the media silence on t’Rangers accounts it was mentioned, in passing, by Hugh Keevins, on SSB, who declared that the accounts demonstrated Rangers commitment to stopping 9IAR and accessing the riches of the Champions League. No further analysis was proffered and the discussion moved on to the performance of t’Rangers in the League Cup semi-final. The most obvious observation to make is that should t’Rangers prevail and lift the title then the monies from the Champions League will not be realised until next season, 8 months down the line. It’s simply not going to happen.

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  40. I agree Ex L and accessing the group stages is no mean feat, that's if they would even be granted a licence , the cumulative losses for last 3 years are already €6m over the threshold. 

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  41. Timtim 5th November 2019 at 18:18 @AJ 17.14 I don't think a pre pack is viable , Close have security for their loan and as you mention the footballing debts of 24m would still have to be honoured , not sure what the situation would be with Ashley or even if it would rid them of his retail contract so the debt it would be able to write off would be minimal . They have ran up the wrong type of debt , loans from themselves and to other clubs. Even liquidation may not help with a R3ngers* as to get a licence those pesky football debts would have to be honoured . They have also ran out of Real Rangers* men , who's left to step up that the fans will accept ? They really are between a rock and a hard place , they are dependent on King keeping his word and selling a Galactico for silly money .

    __________________

    Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that a pre-pack* would be successful (I think that was Whyte's plan and we know how that worked out) I was merely putting it forward as a best case (for TRFC) scenario and pointing out that, even in that best case scenario, there was still a major impediment (football debts) and asking if anyone knew, because the court case hadn't yet delivered a final judgement, if any financial penalty payable to SDI would remain to be paid by RIFC/TRFC post administration. I do think that the football debts scenario, alone, could act as a major impediment to any sort of successful administration unless that long lost sugar daddy is waiting in the wings.

    *I'm referring to a pre-pack because any other administration would require a CVA and, unless he wants to either take over TRFC or set up a great merchandising deal for SDI, I doubt Ashley would allow it to be successful.

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  42. upthehoops 5th November 2019 at 19:47 Allyjambo 5th November 2019 at 17:14 ——————————— Wouldn't a pre-pack mean a 15 point deduction in the league, expulsion from Europe, and quite probably a mutiny from the fans?

    ___________________

    Unless the SFA prove to be even more dishonest than they've previously been, any form of administration for TRFC would mean a 15 point deduction and, I think it is, a 2 years ban from UEFA competitions. The second penalty being a bigger financial impediment than the first, I am sure. 

     

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  43. Just read the Bella caledonia article there. Really good straight forward assessment of the rangers farce that is playing out again . If only the SMS could do the same , the rangers probably wouldnt be in the position they find themselves in . If you havent read the comments section at the end of the article it is a must read. How STUUUUUUUPID are the rangers fans . "In denial" does'nt even begin to describe them. We all know where this will probably end up . Another DEID rangers and of course , its not their fault nobody warned them . Its Celtics Fault , That Lawell guy done it and so did Dundee Utd

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  44. From the website of Wilson Field (Insolvency Practioners)

    How to protect yourself if trading whilst insolvent

    To try and avoid any accusations of trading whilst insolvent, as a company director it’s vital to seek insolvency advice. As soon as you’re aware you cannot meet your liabilities, you need to work on the best solution moving forward.

    Once a director becomes aware their company is insolvent and they have a duty of care to minimise creditor losses. Ways to minimise creditor losses could include placing the company into administration or creditors voluntary liquidation. To protect themselves, directors should avoid doing anything which could be to the detriment of company creditors, including:

    • Taking money out of the company in order to fund personal luxuries such as cars or holidays.
    • Collecting an unreasonably high salary when the company cannot afford it.
    • Transferring assets from the insolvent company for free or for significantly less than valued in an attempt to exclude it from any future insolvency proceedings.
    • Paying creditors in preference to others.
    • Collecting deposits from clients, knowing that works won’t be completed.

    If directors are found to have acted wrongly, they could face disqualification.

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  45. Ex Ludo 6th November 2019 at 07:35

    '..If directors are found to have acted wrongly, they could face disqualification.'

    +++++++++++++

    Disqualification from being  director?

    I won't be alone in saying 'jail the bast.rds'  and those bottom-feeding 'insolvency advisers' who  share the belief that making money out of helping cheating  'businessmen' to stiff their creditors is a wizard wheeze.

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  46. 'easyJambo 5th November 2019 at 11:35

    How other sports deal with financial doping.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50300756'

    #####################################

    I've just had a look at today's Guardian Online where there's an article by Robert Kitson, the paper's rugby correspondent:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/nov/05/saracens-salary-cap-breach-asterisk-great-rugby-club

    In the article, he writes that: 'It is a significant story, if not a massive surprise. For months it has been an open secret that some jealous individuals within Premiership Rugby had plans for Wray.' 

    That's a nasty piece of 'succulent lamb-ism' in my book.

    Kitson implies that certain individuals brought the matter to the attention of the authorities, not because of altruism or a desire for sporting integrity, or for a fair & equitable application of the rules, but because of simple jealousy of Saracens' (or Wray's) achievements. A fine piece of deflection, indeed.

    I'd have expected pash like that from lazy, frightened Scottish journalists, but from the Guardian?

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  47. Wee refresher required here. Could one of our "insolvency experts" help?

     

    What is the difference between a Pre-Pack Admin and ordinary Admin?

     

    I assumed the only real difference was an alternative (new) owner was already signed up, rather than the Administrators looking for best offers.

    Surely, in either scenario, the need for creditor agreement remains?

    Or does the Pre-Pack not require a CVA? If so, it appears to be ridiculously unfair on creditors.

    Personally, I think The Rangers will be allowed/supported to limp on until the end of the season with stopping the nine their "all-in" bet. If successful, some kind of Admin could follow next season, or close season, to reset the finances. We know all but the "internet bampots" will help them achieve their goals, no matter how morally bankrupt they be.

    Will still involve many challenges and battles this season however…. 

    View Comment

  48. normanbatesmumfc 6th November 2019 at 11:06

    What is the difference between a Pre-Pack Admin and ordinary Admin?

    Or does the Pre-Pack not require a CVA? If so, it appears to be ridiculously unfair on creditors.

    ====================================

    The only difference is that the work by the Insolvency Practictioner (IP) is done up front, with the buyer for the assets already in place, normally in the form of a newco. The buyer is frequently a major creditor, shareholder, director, or related party of the oldco.

    There is no need for a CVA as the oldco is normally liquidated.

    It is the job of the IP to value the business and the assets as a going concern, which should establish the price that will be paid by the buyer for the bits of the business, assets and liabilities being taken on by the newco.

    Whatever sum that sale achieves is then distributed to the creditors of the oldco as if it was liquidated.

    The normal attraction of the process is that the business can continue to operate from one day to the next relatively seemlessly often without redundancies. However, the SFA/SPFL/UEFA rules would mean sporting or other sanctions for any football club that attempted to dump debt in that way.  

    The biggest losers as always are the oldco's unsecured creditors and shareholders.

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  49. wottpi 5th November 2019 at 13:52

    ——————————————

    Here's a graph produced by @Kieranmaguire of Oldco's and Newco's spending on wages this century. It shows that the current rise is taking spending close to the levels of the early 2000s. 

    Note that the graph includes both wages and EBT contributions. The missing figure for 2011 was £29.7m. 

    Image

     

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  50. Rod Petrie.

     

    Is Rod Petrie the de facto  'Executive President' of the SFA?

    Although he's not commonly in the SMSM, I've certainly heard more from him than the CEO Maxwell.

    The impression I get [?] is that Petrie is hands on, and certainly much more involved in day to day SFA operations than previous CEO's McCrae or Ogilvie, [remember him? angel ].

    [And I don't think Petrie is involved with Hibs now either?]

     

    And the follow on query is;

    If/when RIFC hits the buffers, and

    if/when the SFA looks to pull the strings / bend the rules to favour an Ibrox club,

    …will the author of the shameful, secretive, 5 Way Agreement actually have a casting vote on 'accommodating' yet another 'Rangers' entity in Scottish football?

     

    Seems like such a crazy and tone deaf scenario – that I'm guessing it's a definite possibility at the incompetent SFA?

    View Comment

  51. Easyjambo@12.51

    That’s quite a graph you’ve put up. The dramatic and unsustainable rise in wages almost exactly coincides with DK as de facto Chairman being able to exert full financial control of t’Rangers. 

    In other news Tom English is doing a Moggy over his comments re Saracens. A very predictable unwillingness to draw the obvious comparisons with what happened in Scotland in 2012. I haven’t seen any comment from other teams that play in the same league as Saracens it’s almost like they trust their admins to do the right thing. 

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  52. Court action tomorrow.  I assume that is will be a case management hearing about how to proceed with the case, following the recent decision by the Inner House that the Lord Advocate doesn't have immunity from prosecution if malice and lack of probable cause can be proved.

    Thursday 7th November

    TO BE ALLOCATED

    STARRED MOTIONS

    1 hour A413/16 David Whitehouse v The Lord Advocate – Urquharts – SGLD

    View Comment

  53. Ex Ludo @ 15.24

    I haven’t seen any comment from other teams that play in the same league as Saracens it’s almost like they trust their admins to do the right thing. 

    ——————————————————————–

    Exeter are certainly nae happy! And Leicester have called for an investigation in to all clubs finances.

    View Comment

  54. easyJambo 6th November 2019 at 12:51

     

    Interesting stuff to see it in pictorial form.

    So when they got all the way to the Uefa cup final the oldco published figures were showing a turnover of circa £65.5m with a net operating expenses of £57.8m

    The recent figures publish for RIFC plc say turnover was £53.2m and operating expenses at £58.2m.

    They are now maxing out with no signs of where extra income will come from and some unknown liabilities in the pipeline.

    Not a good place to be if a few results go the wrong way.

     

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  55. Agreed that’s quite a graph. If you could overlay their annual and cumulative debt on to of it I think it would tell an even starker picture

    If that was possible then I’d suggest all Scottish football fans should send a copy of it to their club, copying the SFA and SPFL, and ask them what the F*** is going on

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  56. I see John James is suggesting a crowdfunded judicial review of Doncaster’s conferring of old Rangers’ titles on the new Ibrox club. Feel sure folks on here will have considered already (?) but worth a punt ?

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  57. al62 6th November 2019 at 17:21

    I see John James is suggesting a crowdfunded judicial review of Doncaster’s conferring of old Rangers’ titles on the new Ibrox club. Feel sure folks on here will have considered already (?) but worth a punt ?

    ==================================

    Doubtful and most likely out of time. I seem to recall the Res 12 guys seeking advice from a QC about a JR regarding the SFA's or SPFL's refusal to look again at the EBT situation following the Supreme Court verdict. I think the advice was that there was little prospect of successfully challenging the decision.

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  58. al62 6th November 2019 at 17:21

           I see John James is suggesting a crowdfunded judicial review of Doncaster’s conferring of old Rangers’ titles on the new Ibrox club. Feel sure folks on here will have considered already (?) but worth a punt ?

      ———————————————————

         I have a vague recollection that it was amply rewarded David Longmuir, (he of the mega dodgy bonus), who bore the responsibility for the new club's claim on the titles of the deid club. 

        I can't quite recall if that was deffo, or rumour.???

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  59. Regarding the voting at 22.40 yesterday it seems like its a 2-1 majority (40 for and 80 against) that they will limp on at least til next season , I would caution though that this vote was only advisory and I will now call for a peoples vote at a later date . Thank you all for taking the time to vote especially our old friend Niall who voted 78 times with the thumbs down.

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  60. Corrupt official 6th November 2019 at 19:57
    A discussion also took place about the SFL. Both ND and RM asserted that the SFL’s record keeping was poor and would not provide much for an inquiry. When the issue of potential title stripping was discussed, it was revealed that the decision to recognise Newco’s claim to RFC’s titles, was taken by the SFL board including David Longmuir and Jim Ballantyne, when they decided to invite Newco into the SFL 3rd Division.
    …………..
    http://celticunderground.net/doncaster-mckenzie-fans-media-meeting/

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