Fantastic Voyage ..

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.. and why sites like SFM matter.

When SFM blasted off in 2012, we had a fair idea that Scottish Football had not only veered violently off the rails,but that it had done so deliberately.

Our intention was to try to help – in some small way – to steer it towards a straighter track, and to see it restored as a sporting institution and spectacle worthy of sporting principles. To see integrity restored to our national sport, to see honesty, fairness and adherence to both the laws of the game and land.

Of course we didn’t know what route our own journey would take, even although we were clear about the destination. What we did know about the journey was that no matter the route, the first leg started outside our own front door.

Who knew we would be taken on a magical mystery tour, blindfolded, spun around a few times, but still find ourselves at that front door. Via the road less traveled, the high road, low road and an endless series of shortcuts and wrong turns we hadn’t moved an inch.

On every stage of the “journey” the SFA, the SPL, and their quasi-legal tribunals & inquiries ducked and dived, twisted and bent the truth, and aided and abetted the greatest scam in the history of UK sport.

Newly coined idioms emerged; “Imperfect registrations”, “boiler-room subsidiary”, “emerged from liquidation”, “ethereal entity”, – and the real doozy; “other clubs could also have broken the tax laws had they wished” – all in an effort to;
1. pretend that what happened had not happened, that cheating was fair, that the rights of one football club were not enshrined in law but decreed by the heavens;
2. hope against hope that the rest of us had gone stark raving bonkers and would accept the “Santa is alive” fallacy as truth.

The facts were;

  • That Rangers, having been subjected to the ignominy of administration, had now entered liquidation, leaving behind a mountain of debts, the vast majority of which were underwritten by us, by the taxpaying public.
  • That almost £100m of funds was denied to the exchequer as the first ever nationalised football club, bought and paid for by the people of the UK, slid into oblivion, a trail of devastation in its wake.
  • That in the course of that calamitous conduct of business, the SFA and the SPL were given false and incomplete information about the nature of players’ contracts. This in order to cover up a tax scheme that was (according to the man who devised it) operated incorrectly and thus unawfully.

Every football club in Scotland and their fans were cheated by a club which quite simply refused to play by the rules – even as the noose around its neck was being pulled ever tighter due to HMRC and Lloyd’s Banking Group taking steps to erect buffers ahead of the onrushing gravy train.

The result was that 140 years of history came to an end; an insatiable hunger for success ironically bringing about the ultimate and irreversible failure of a Scottish institution.

Not for them though, the recognition that they had transgressed. “It wasn’t Rangers – it was Craig White” was the cry.

I’m sure Hearts supporters in 1965 might have said the same about Willie Wallace after he missed a sitter in the final league match against Kilmarnock at Tynecastle. Had he scored, Hearts would have won the league, so Hearts should, by the RFC logic, claim that title anyway. Likewise Celtic fans could have pointed a finger at Georgios Samaras when his penalty miss at Ibrox lost them the league.

More facts: every football club in the world is the sum of its parts, onfield and off. We take the good that people do for our clubs and celebrate them. We have no right to cherry pick and ignore the consequences when people screw up.

Footballers – and administrators – are often gifted individuals given to moments of blinding inspiration which benefits their clubs. They are also often prone to reckless behaviours, the consequences of which we all have to bear. Murray’s knack of talking money out of trees and his reckless and irresponsible practices gave Rangers huge success, but that behaviour also – perhaps inevitably – led to the appointment with the buffers mentioned above.

The good and the bad. Both sides of the same coin, inseparable, inevitable, and there is no choice but to accept the whole package, not just the good bits.

In the circumstances, the hostility towards the old club was understandable. It was always a given that Celtic fans were unlikely to cut them slack as they headed towards an ignominious end.

However, had there been contrition, an acknowledgement of wrongs and some humility in response to talk of consequences, fans of other clubs outside of the Old Firm bubble may have extended some sympathy. But there was none of this. Instead, denial, arrogance, blaming others (“kicking us when we are down”, “who are these people?”) and a pugilistic reaction to the very idea of punishment. The outcome was an absence of sympathy for the plight of RFC.

Let’s revisit this; on an industrial scale, Rangers misrepresented (accidentally if you believe that the board of a PLC was comprised exclusively of halfwits and individuals unable to bite their own fingers) crucial information regarding compliance with registration rules, They subsequently withheld evidence from multiple enquiries into their conduct over these registration rules.

As far back as 1996, Rangers PAYE affairs were being investigated by HMRC and incurring penalties (not a very well publicised event).

Then, for more than a decade, principally through the 2000s they failed to comply with taxation statutes and with crucially important (not merely bureaucratic) SFA rules designed to preserve the intergity of football as a sport. They cheated the revenue out of millions and the fans of every club in Scotland out of their aspirations for their own clubs.

Rangers however were still box-office, and there were 50,000 fans providing a market for the product the now extinct club had provided through the decades. Surely someone would step in and take up the Rangers cause? Surely those people would eschew the catastrophic errors of judgement that had resulted in the economic and existential demise of the original club? Surely they would also acknowledge those mistakes in an effort to convince the clubs and fans they had wronged that this was an organisation that recognised the interdependence of sporting activity?

Surely.

But no. Sadly, no.

Even then though, that matters little.

Why? Because the sins of the old Rangers cannot be visited on the new. The behavior of the new club is a matter for a different argument, but it isn’t relevant in a legal or regulatory sense to the old club. Legally or morally there is nothing you can do to them to ensure that a repeat of the same spivish behaviour does not occur.

So why the fuss? Why the six years of relentless campaigning by SFM and dozens of other football sites?

Because it does matter that the authorities themselves – including all the other clubs – and the MSM have gone out of their way to cover it all up.

No-one at the SFA will talk to fans who have provided them with evidence of wrongdoing in the matter of the 2011 Euro licence. No one will address the witholding of evidence from the LNS enquiry, nor the false premise upon which it arrived at some of its conclusions, nor the mysteriously shifting goalposts of the period investigated by the LNS enquiry, nor the acid-flashback consciousness of the newly arrived at – and totally irregular and unlawful – “imperfect registration” status.

What still requires to be done is to root out those who have enabled the big lie. We need to hold accountable those who have sought to bury evidence, to dispense with logic and to treat fans with contempt and ridicule when legitimate concerns are raised.

We need to replace those people with people of integrity, folk who love the game as much as we do, people who will not yield to intimidation or the dog-whistle.

There are foot thick rule-books in place in football, and the authorities have plummeted into the Asimovian depths of a regulatory Fantastic Voyage to circumvent those. The SFA Chief Executive even told our own John Clark that he would “do nothing” had he been presented with evidence of wrong doing (and he had been presented with such evidence).

Yet one simple rule would have saw the whole sorry escapade brought to a halt – the universal rule that requires people to show due respect and good faith to others.

As I said, we started this journey at our own front door. The authorities and their enablers in the media have been taking us on the Uber route for six years. But we still know the destination, and we will get there. The SFA, the SPFL and the MSM have been relentless in their dedication to half-truths and misdirection.

But the fans are even more relentless in their pursuit of truth and their determination to see our game returned to its status a a sport. That is why outlets like SFM are important. Not because we are any better than others, but because we give a voice to the people in the game who matter most – to the paying public of Scotland who turn up in numbers relatively greater than any other country in Europe. They need that voice. We are not going anywhere.

1668 COMMENTS


  1. Jimbo I'm happy I have my dogs football these days is just a wee distraction for me my team got pumped out from something that grows on the wall lol.

    I have no skin in these games but would hope for better from Scottish teams alas not to be.

    View Comment

  2. Reiver 23rd August 2018 at 19:30  

     

    3

     

    1

     

    Rate This

    Auldheid

    So Res12 will probably end up in the same situation as OC/NC in that someone outwith the football authorities will need to push their case through the courts and stump up the costs for that action.

    =================

    Apart from the fact it continues to be under the scrutiny of the JPDT armed with all the knowns it depends.

    If there is a satisfactory explanation then that will end the matter. If there isn't the majority shareholders will have to explain to minority shareholders and supporters why it is in their interest not to challenge fraud and at the same time assure them its OK to still buy STs without some explanation of steps they have taken to prevent a recurrence other than "trust us." Otherwise they are taking a loan of their supporters.

    If the reason is other clubs have no problem asking their supporters to watch a game that does not tackle fraud then that is up to their supporters to decide if they too are being taken a loan of.

    Tricky.

    View Comment

  3. IMO, there should never ever be another mention of this imaginary oc,nc on any PART of this forum, … All our learned men and girls, have had their say, …. It's a lie, …and everybody knows it. …..Time up.

    View Comment

  4. Cluster One 23rd August 2018 at 20:20

    Installed ok, but would not open.

    —————————————————–

    Try the keyboard key,  top of keyboard  marked  print scrn to right of  F12

    View Comment

  5. bigboab1916 23rd August 2018 at 23:14

    Is the reason for not been able to upload due to this button not been installed maybe in the admins settings

    Could be, doing a search for the image you provided  produces the result below.

    "Best guess for this image: change font on wordpress"

     

    More likely to be a missing/not activated plugin.

    View Comment

  6. woodstein 23rd August 2018 at 23:41

    More likely to be a missing/not activated plugin.

     

    Yep thats the word i was lookin  for earlier, when i posted the image earlier i opened the source button and used HTML language to post the image, thats how i knew the clue was in the as you state the plugin, the wordpress runs on HTML.The button will allow media to be inserted which i guess will be docs and images etc.. i used this for example <img src=”http://www.thehansindia.com/assets/train_4249.jpg“>

    “>

    HaHa fecking geeks.

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  7. jimbo 23rd August 2018 at 20:48  

     

    Radio Shortbread on until 10pm talking about football.  I love it.  Wish it was till midnight.

     

    ============================

    Glad you enjoy it Jimbo – each to their own. For me it is a disgrace of programme which I no longer have interest in. Gordon Smith worming his way back was the final straw for me.  In my view it is nothing other than publicly funded propaganda for a football club which wants to censor what the station's reporters can report on. Interestingly the main rivals of that club, who grant the station's reporters full access, are used as a punchbag for the show. 

    View Comment

  8. upthehoops 24th August 2018 at 07:23  

    Glad you enjoy it Jimbo – each to their own. For me it is a disgrace of programme which I no longer have interest in. Gordon Smith worming his way back was the final straw for me.  In my view it is nothing other than publicly funded propaganda for a football club which wants to censor what the station's reporters can report on. Interestingly the main rivals of that club, who grant the station's reporters full access, are used as a punchbag for the show. 

    ___________________________________________________________________

     

    Meanwhile over in Rangers social media, the BBC remain funded by Peter Lawwell with Celtic PR team being employed to deliberately undermine the club.  

    View Comment

  9. TheLawMan2 24th August 2018 at 08:57  

     

    I agree with you the constant conspiracy theories about media outlets from either half of the (definitely not the) Old Firm are daft.  I think this gives them an easy way to deflect the genuine and deserved criticism that comes their way, rather than addressing their decline in standards they highlight the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists and try to pretend it's just them who are unhappy.

     

    I do get that clickbait is what makes the commercial news outlets money nowadays but I find it bizarre that the BBC persist with sensationalist half-wits like Richard Gordon, Barry Ferguson and Michael Stewart when they are not reliant on income from clicks.  They could offer more nuanced and intellectual output with no negative commercial impact at all, just smacks of incompetence that they don't.

    View Comment

  10. Nick 24th August 2018 at 08:49  

    Thanks for that Nick.  Thats a superb piece of work by Moravcik67.  I think ive seen a few other bits from him as well which were equally as good.  Well im sure it was him…..

    View Comment

  11. Ah yes.  Half wittedness.  That's the reason Stewart and Gordon don't comment on it as they must surely  see it as everyone else does.  Or perhaps they have to have a separate show for that too, in case fragile sensitivities are touched?

      

    View Comment

  12. Tyrone Smith @TyroneSTV Highland League Fort William FC have been fined £150 and docked NINE points for fielding an ineligible player on THREE occasions …. their current points total for the season now stands at -9 9:43 am · 24 Aug 2018

    View Comment

  13. Nick 24th August 2018 at 09:08  

    "…..sensationalist half-wits like Richard Gordon, Barry Ferguson and Michael Stewart .'

    _________________________

    You are far too generous: Ferguson is nowhere near reaching as high a level as half-wit!

    If Richard Gordon were a half-wit, there would be an excuse for him.

    However,  he is a BBC placeman who  obeys orders from senior officers: senior officers who, prepared as they are to lie  in  matters as relatively trivial as  Sport, leave one in no doubt that they would be prepared to lie as viciously and serially as a Goebbels in matters of greater importance. 

    As for Stewart ,  his 'he could of'' and ''they should of" drive me up the wall, and he accepts filthy lucre from the BBC:  but he is less of a place-man, and more ready to speak honestly.

     

    View Comment

  14. Just found a lot of stuff in the spam folder folks. WordPress is funny with links and treats them with caution. Currently the site is set so that anything with over five links is rejected as that is a spam signature, however I think it often miscounts.

    Apologies for the frustration that may have caused.

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  15. Billydug 24th August 2018 at 09:56
    8 0 Rate This

    Tyrone Smith @TyroneSTV Highland League Fort William FC have been fined £150 and docked NINE points for fielding an ineligible player on THREE occasions …. their current points total for the season now stands at -9 9:43 am · 24 Aug 2018
    —————————————————————————
    As retrospective punishment is not possible under Sandy Bryson’s law, is it safe to assume the SFA were aware of the first offence, but let FWFC have another couple of goes at cheating, before taking action?

    View Comment

  16. Billydug 24th August 2018 at 09:56  

    '..Fort William FC have been fined £150 and docked NINE points for fielding an ineligible player on THREE occasions ….'

    _____________________

    Things like this just highlight how absurd it is that a serially cheating club for  nearly a decade is allowed to claim that it won scores of games in which ineligible players played.

    There will surely be a hot place in hell for the  proponents and supporters of Brysonism: may none of them go down to their graves with any kind of honour or dignity.

    View Comment

  17. John Clark 24th August 2018 at 11:23  

    "……no doubt that they would be prepared to lie as viciously and serially as a Goebbels in matters of greater importance." 

    Soon, well already, to be made up shite, a bit like standing outside like the as do the BBC at Ibrox asking people coming out what happened and selling the story as a genuine report.

    https://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2018/news/reach-director-football-journalists-can-still-be-credible-without-going-to-matches/

    View Comment

  18. Woodstien @ 15.38

    Do you mean a bit like Chick Young giving us his take on the Rangers EL game whilst sitting in the BBC radio studio with a number of others who were presumably also watching the same game on a live feed. Hopefully a kosher feed. No pun intended.

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  19. I know all the faults of Radio Scotland.  I can scream abuse at them like the best of them.  

     

    But it's something to listen to.  There is some good guys on there like Michael Stewart and Willie Miller.

     

    And when they talk nonsense, we have a voice to ridicule them. (Not MS & WM, just about everybody else))

    View Comment

  20. Tom English should be ashamed of himself.  A natural born Celtic supporter who tries too hard to be 'neutral'  it's embarrassing.  Just speak the truth Tom.

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  21.  

    "In old days men had the rack. Now they have the Press. That is an improvement certainly. But still it is very bad, and wrong, and demoralizing. Somebody — was it Burke? — called journalism the fourth estate. That was true at the time no doubt. But at the present moment it is the only estate. It has eaten up the other three. The Lords Temporal say nothing, the Lords Spiritual have nothing to say, and the House of Commons has nothing to say and says it. We are dominated by Journalism"

     

    Oscar Wilde

    View Comment

  22. Tom English should be ashamed of himself.  A natural born Celtic supporter who tries too hard to be 'neutral'  it's embarrassing.  Just speak the truth Tom.

    Jimbo, I think a sign of a good pundit is someone who may have allegiances but can also come across as a neutral. Tom does that well. So to does Chris Sutton and Barry Ferguson. 

    View Comment

  23. jimbo 24th August 2018 at 16:27  

    Tom English should be ashamed of himself.  A natural born Celtic supporter who tries too hard to be 'neutral'  it's embarrassing.  Just speak the truth Tom.

    ————————————–

    I've never heard Tom claim to be a Celtic fan ??

    I don't mind him actually but he's no Michael Stewart. Stuart Cosgrove is another favourite of mine from radio Scotland. I also miss Jim Spence 

    View Comment

  24. Bill1903 @ 18.25

    Tom English is a rugby fan who has drifted into football. He’s a first class writer but the print media is a shrinking market.

    I follow Jim Spence on Twitter. He’s always entertaining and has a rare turn of phrase.

    View Comment

  25. woodstein 23rd August 2018 at 22:45
    7 0 Rate This

    Cluster One 23rd August 2018 at 20:20

    Installed ok, but would not open.

    —————————————————–

    Try the keyboard key, top of keyboard marked print scrn to right of F12
    ……………….
    Ok it’s quite so,hopefully asking a question that will help me and others.
    Installed again,got picture, how do you then get it on to SFM?

    View Comment

  26. Will play around later over in another page so people can come and go without bottlenack and see what i can do, are your images .jpeg .png .doc .pdf ie all the extension you use what ones and i wil try, i can if i get something to work, i usually test before posting a sample of something, the box allows for this, hopefully, for all file extension i have only uploaded jpegs so far. .

    Will try if you let me know the extension of file(s)

    View Comment

  27. Corrupt official 24th August 2018 at 11:44  

    With respect to Fort William FC, stv sport are reporting:

    "The Highland Football League issued a statement which read: "The matter of Fort William FC fielding an ineligible player on three occasions was considered by the League Management Committee at its meeting yesterday evening.

    "In forming its conclusion, the League Management Committee took into account the fact that the club had agreed that this amounted to a breach of Rule 8.9.4 and that the terms of clause 8.9.13 provided for a mandatory penalty.

    "Consequently, the meeting decided that Fort William FC be fined a total of £150 and deducted 9 points with immediate effect.'

    https://stv.tv/sport/football/1428567-fort-william-face-negative-points-total-after-deduction/

    Unfortunately the Rules page from the Highland Football League website has disappeared so it's not possible to check whether these player(s) were ineligible because of Registration irregularities under Rule 8.9.4.,and thus should, under Bryson's Law, have been eligible.

    Rabbit hole.

    http://www.highlandfootballleague.com/History/Item/2017-18%20SHFL%20Constitution%20&%20Rules%20approved%20by%20the%20AGM%20on%2029%20May%202017.pdf

     

    View Comment

  28. ok key is to get them up on cloud i will see if i can download twitter jpegs and upload them, its all about size and extensions will focus on jpeg as thats your option of saving and is best.if we can its easy to set up a twitter account only you use, nomdeplume of no concern except to you as a cloud storage.

    Get back if i solve something and will explain how.indecision

    View Comment

  29. So a wee team fields an ineligible player in 3 games and they are deducted 9 points .
    Strange that , because  IIRC that seems to tie in with the rules as I read them until a BIG team did the same for ten years .

    Oh what a tangled web we weave 

    View Comment

  30. macfurgly 24th August 2018 at 21:26  

    '..Unfortunately the Rules page from the Highland Football League website has disappeared .'

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    So it has, and it was only just updated in June!

    What a sadness that there is no one associated with Fort William FC  who seems to be up to speed with  'tervigersatio brysoniana', who might possibly have succeeded in ripping  the ellipticals off the 'ineligibility' argument, citing the almost decade long , unpunished, use of ineligible players by a Glasgow club.

    That it should come to this, in Scottish Football, that the very idea of punishing smaller clubs with breaches of eligibility rules is at all accepted when one particular club – condemned as a club that cheated on a stupendous scale in its financial accounting to the SPL and the SFA- was acquitted of using ineligible players by an Alice-in-Wonderland interpretation of rules.

    And that the SMSM and the rest of Scottish football should have bought into such a fantastic notion!

    There was no room for such a notion when Nazi bast.rd Palij was deported from the USA the other day.

    The fact that his illegal immigration into the USA in 1949 was not discovered until decades later did not make it any less illegal!

    And the mere passage of time does not in the least lessen his guilt. 

    And the fact that it's been nearly 20 years or so since the SDM practice of fielding players whose remuneration was not truthfully reported to the SPL and SFA does not in the least diminish their guilt or excuse the SPFL even now from taking appropriate action, by reversing the absolutely insane brysonian interpretation, and rendering all the games played by RFC plc, in which they fielded ineligible players, as 0-3 defeats, and sorting out the 'honours' and 'titles' history accordingly.

     

     

     

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  31. I would like to say again what I have said before, that this is not a Celtic FC supporters' blog. 

    There are a good few of those already. 

    Nor is it a vehicle for practised 'deniers'  to spread their anti-truth propaganda. 

    It is ( not that it's mine!) a blog on which those who look at the evidence, have to conclude that the SFA, by the 5-Way Agreement with Charles Green, sold the soul and integrity of Scottish Football as a Sport.

    The fact that that selling out was brought about to appease a particular liquidated club is , as far as non Celtic supporters of Football are concerned,  is neither here nor there: every club in Scottish football -amateur, junior, semi-pro, women's, youth, schools,  is affected if the Governance of Scottish football is, or has been, corrupted.

    Use of the blog for any kind of 'Celtic-mindedness'  stuff plays into the hands of those who have defiled Scottish football and those who defend that defilement.

    Quietly, and respectfully. I say 'chuck it!'

    Like the professor at Edinburgh University , the 'deniers' love to have the reasoned arguments on this blog categorised as ' a west of Scotland, Celtic/Rangers 'sporting rivalry' / 'banter' thing, sociologically amusing,ha ha!

    Let's stick to the task of finding the truth, and calling bad people to account for forsaking that truth.

     

     

     

     

    View Comment

    1. I would like to say again what I have said before, that this is not a Celtic FC supporters' blog. 

      There are a good few of those already. 

      Nor is it a vehicle for practised 'deniers'  to spread their anti-truth propaganda. 

      It is ( not that it's mine!) a blog on which those who look at the evidence, have to conclude that the SFA, by the 5-Way Agreement with Charles Green, sold the soul and integrity of Scottish Football as a Sport.

      The fact that that selling out was brought about to appease a particular liquidated club is , as far as non Celtic supporters of Football are concerned,  is neither here nor there: every club in Scottish football -amateur, junior, semi-pro, women's, youth, schools,  is affected if the Governance of Scottish football is, or has been, corrupted.

      Use of the blog for any kind of 'Celtic-mindedness'  stuff plays into the hands of those who have defiled Scottish football and those who defend that defilement.

      Quietly, and respectfully. I say 'chuck it!'

      Like the professor at Edinburgh University , the 'deniers' love to have the reasoned arguments on this blog categorised as ' a west of Scotland, Celtic/Rangers 'sporting rivalry' / 'banter' thing, sociologically amusing,ha ha!

      Let's stick to the task of finding the truth, and calling bad people to account for forsaking that truth.

       

       

       

       

      Click to EditDelete  (5 minutes and 28 seconds)

    1.  
    View Comment

  32. John Clark 24th August 2018 at 11:23  

     

    Nick 24th August 2018 at 09:08  

    "…..sensationalist half-wits like Richard Gordon, Barry Ferguson and Michael Stewart .'

    You are far too generous: Ferguson is nowhere near reaching as high a level as half-wit!

    If Richard Gordon were a half-wit, there would be an excuse for him.

    However,  he is a BBC placeman who  obeys orders from senior officers: senior officers who, prepared as they are to lie  in  matters as relatively trivial as  Sport, leave one in no doubt that they would be prepared to lie as viciously and serially as a Goebbels in matters of greater importance. 

    ====================

    JC

    I wonder if Richard Gordon has ever realised that in this interview with Regan in October 2013 on SFA Licensing responsibilities around when Res12 was added to the Celtic AGM agenda

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9YktGc0kwWjJCY1E/view?usp=sharing

     that Regan was either

    1.        Knowingly lying in Richard’s face or
    2.       Was displaying his ignorance of UEFA FFP Article 9 and so his incompetence as the SFA CEO.

     

    Article 9 – The core process

    1 The licensor must define the core process for the verification of the criteria and

    thus control the issuing of licences.

    2 The core process starts at a time defined by the licensor and ends on

    submission of the list of licensing decisions to the UEFA administration by the

    deadline communicated by the latter.

    3 The core process consists of the following minimum key steps:

    a) Submission of the licensing documentation to the licence applicants;

    b) Return of the licensing documentation to the licensor;

    c) Assessment of the documentation by the licensing administration;

    d) Submission of the written representation letter to the licensor;

    e) Assessment and decision by the decision-making bodies;

    f) Submission of the list of licensing decisions to the UEFA administration. *

    4 The deadlines for the above key process steps must be clearly defined and

    communicated to the clubs concerned in a timely manner by the licensor.

    The list was submitted on 26th May 2011 according to the highest authority in UEFA on Club Licensing.

    On Regan I’m going for option a)

    Why?

    His lips were moving.

    On Gordon whom I like listening to: Is he bound by obedience?

     

    View Comment

  33. macfurgly 24th August 2018 at 21:26

    Corrupt official 24th August 2018 at 11:44

    With respect to Fort William FC, stv sport are reporting:
    ——————————————————————————
    Thanks for taking the time to look up the appropriate ruling Macfurgly. (something I should have done), However, as with everything SFA…….It still reeks.

    View Comment

  34. Auldheid 23rd August 2018 at 15:48

    and

    Auldheid 23rd August 2018 at 22:25

    Firstly, apologies for the delay but I have been seriously considering whether I was right to return to the site. I seems to have lost its way. The first of your posts above quotes from part of a post of mine that is no longer in existence. Not lost in the spam folder but deliberately removed without explanation. The content was to point out, as JC has just done, that a great deal of the content of the site has far less right to stay on the main thread than the continuation debate. There were no ad hominem attacks. If any could be loosely translated as such it would be the one that still exists – Reiver 23rd August 2018 at 10:56 – which was meant append the post that you quote. The removal of my post smacks of an unhealthy(for the site) instance of censorship. Censorship of criticism of the site itself.

    Anyway to the point in hand.

    In your second post you state

    Apart from the fact it continues to be under the scrutiny of the JPDT armed with all the knowns it depends.

    Since LNS, and to this day, we have seen that "independent" scrutiny does not result in independent outcomes. To put faith in that is, because of our experiences, tantamount to naivety and you do tip your hat to that view. But it is still allowed to kick the can down the road further.

    You then go on to say

    If there isn't the majority shareholders will have to explain to minority shareholders and supporters why it is in their interest not to challenge fraud and at the same time assure them its OK to still buy STs without some explanation of steps they have taken to prevent a recurrence other than "trust us." Otherwise they are taking a loan of their supporters.

    If, as I suggested, that Celtic see the end to this as rejecting Res 12 outright then what? The AGM at which this will surface will be closer to when the STs have been already bought than to when the money from the next sale is required. Do you really believe that you have found a way to retain the attention of the majority of the fans? If you have then why use it for that, why not use it last year or now to bring those fans on board?

    So you are left with the very real outcome of Res12 being neutered with no way forward other than some very expensive private prosecution. The purpose of Res12 has been valid for 7 years now with each year that passes seeing strengthening evidence being gathered. But I believe that it is two years since the real power of that evidence was reached. Since then, time passed is serving to neutralise that proof and yet when the evidence was at its most pertinent Celtic refused to act.

    We must not forget that Res12 is only related to a single aspect of the poor(too weak a term) governance in Scottish football. So even if it should succeed I do not believe we are left in a strong position. Let me predict the scenario.

    Celtic pass Res 12 and demand action from the SFA/UEFA

    SFA see that they are in a corner and perhaps open to criminal charges.

    Their options are to come clean and be prosecuted or find somebody else to blame.

    I'll leave you to finish that scenario as I am sure it is obvious what they will do, who they will blame and for what.

    We are now in a position where a club that is already in a very dodgy position carries the can and and a governing body that carries on, more carefully, than before. How do we then take them to task for their sins. The issues that are more definitive of their involvement such as lack of punishment for years of cheating, the five way agreement, the transfer of trophies to a club that is not the one who won them, ignoring attacks on fellow members in club statements etc. The efficacy of such challenges have been undermined by a success on an issue that can be perceived only to have been advantageous to Celtic.

    I am not against Res 12 and am sure you will concede that I have proved that by assisting in facilitating publicity on the issue but Res12 does not prove SFA involvement only that they MAY have been involved or more likely they have been incompetent.

    We need all their sins exposed.

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  35. Reiver 25th August 2018 at 09:37  

    "The first of your posts above quotes from part of a post of mine that is no longer in existence. Not lost in the spam folder but deliberately removed without explanation. The content was to point out, as JC has just done, that a great deal of the content of the site has far less right to stay on the main thread than the continuation debate. There were no ad hominem attacks. If any could be loosely translated as such it would be the one that still exists – Reiver 23rd August 2018 at 10:56 – which was meant append the post that you quote. The removal of my post smacks of an unhealthy(for the site) instance of censorship. Censorship of criticism of the site itself."

    ………………………………………………………………………………

    A post which I wrote partly in support of your comments on 23rd August 2018 at 10:56 also disappeared into the ether, as might this. 

    ……………………………………………………………………………..

    John Clark 25th August 2018 at 00:12

    "

    The fact that that selling out was brought about to appease a particular liquidated club is , as far as non Celtic supporters of Football are concerned,  is neither here nor there: every club in Scottish football -amateur, junior, semi-pro, women's, youth, schools,  is affected if the Governance of Scottish football is, or has been, corrupted.

    Use of the blog for any kind of 'Celtic-mindedness'  stuff plays into the hands of those who have defiled Scottish football and those who defend that defilement.

    Quietly, and respectfully. I say 'chuck it!'"

    …………………………………………………………………………….

    Totally agree.

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  36. The reason there is no file upload is that there are extra charges when large files accumulate on the server.

    Hosting have been on to us for a while about that and threatening bills. Thus the absence of an upload facility meantime.

    Investigating the possibility of uploading to a free drop box via the comments page.

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  37. Reiver

    The purpose of the site is not to discuss the site itself, nor any individuals disappointment with it. The site is there for those who DO subscribe largely to its ethos and methods. Those who don't are probably not using their own time wisely by continuing to post. It doesn't constitute censorship if the mods steer discussion back on substantive matters – and if all else fails in that regard, Twitter is your friend. God knows we get enough abuse on there already.

    The mods will decide – as they have done for six years with some success – moderation policy. There is not always time to give reasons why posts are removed, but it might be easier to ask the question privately rather than stage a martyr-fest on the main thread. The site is not about individuals. There are no superstars or divas, nor is there any room for them.

    I disagree that the site has lost its way. Quite the opposite, but those who agree with your conjecture will in the main just stop posting. We have had a good few Big Production Number Exits in the past, and we are fine with that, but most people who disagree just leave with dignity. Repeated criticism is a sideshow. 

    We used to have a comment moderation thread, but strangely when the audience of the main thread was removed, people stopped posting on it. Happy to resurrect it.

    What SFM IS about is the collective sense of grievance that we all feel.

    Many excellent and valued posters have disappeared over the course of the last six years, and some of them agree with some variation of your sentiment, but most of them tell me privately that their absence is more due to battle-weariness than profound disagreements with the course the blog is taking. 

    On the other side of that coin, over that period of time we have had added many valuable and knowledgeable people to our community, and of course we have retained the core of cross-club veteran posters and commentators who largely gave the blog its identity.

    That is something of which we are proud and from which take great satisfaction.

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  38. Trisidium@ 11.16

    Bill Shankly opined,tongue in cheek, that football wasn’t a matter of life, it was far more important. Football matters are discussed on here but we try and leave our respective allegiances at the front door. SFM isn’t a matter of life and death either but it is important. There is a collective understanding of the various issues and also disagreements from time to time hence the need for a referee. 

     

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  39. Tris

    It doesn't constitute censorship if the mods steer discussion back on substantive matters

    Tris the point of my post was to point out that non-substantive posts were NOT steered away from and I listed them. Those points are far more responsible for breaking up discussions than ever continuation was. To treat music and religious posts as substantive in the context of the site when serious issues like continuation is relegated makes a mockery of your observations.

    You may judge my comments as a "martyr-fest" but that displays misjudgement on your part not any ego induced part of mine. My concern was that the site was being diluted with everyday football and non-football issues that involved nothing of substance to the original purpose of monitoring our football administrators. If that continues to be the case then this site will drift towards being an irrelevant side show and we cannot afford for that to happen as this has always been the only site on which semblance of club impartiality could be found.

    You seem to be comfortable with the loss of some big hitters from here but it would be foolish to believe that their departure as advantageous to the goal. You would be far better advised to take on board their reason for leaving and, after an honest critique of the site, consider whether their points are valid. From there make the adjustments to the site policies that attracts them to return.

    Finally. last year I purchased the domain SFA-Truth.uk but have not brought it to life because other lines of pressure were suppose to be in the offing. One, in which I was involved, failed to materialise. Res 12 plods along as before with no conclusion in sight. Perhaps a bit more proactive support from a site dedicated to righting of wrongs would have persuaded the Celtic board, and other club's boards, that there was value in moving the resolution forward. This site's reputation gives it a far greater advantage than any site I could create but without the will here to get back on track I need to make SFA-Truth an active site.

    This may be looked on as an attempt at martyrdom but I honestly believe what I have written, and perhaps others do too. So instead of as previously binning this post because of the criticism it contains consider leaving it up so that other posters can make their feelings known. Posters ARE the site as we are lucky to see four articles a year published. You guys have put a great deal of hard work into the production here but without the contribution to the threads no-one would visit. Please! Seriously soul search before it is too late.

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  40. Reiver

    I don't agree with your analysis of what would happen at the AGM based on knowns.

    Matters have changed since Res12 was tabled and it didn't ask that the SFA investigate it asked that UEFA CFCB investigate events in 2011 iro UEFA licensing process.

    (Additionally and currently Celtic fans are not in the mood to be fobbed of again.)

    Only good reason not to take matters further  will satisfy the Celtic support and if it exists I for one will be glad to see the end of it.

    However if no good reason exists then Celtic and their shareholders and supporters have decisions to make in light of knowns. So too will supporters of other clubs unless they think corruption only affects Celtic.

    In a way there no longer is a need for Res12 as what took place in 2011 is known. It's what to do with it that is causing constant procrastination,  helped by smsm who, for a variety of reasons, will not look at the knowns. Just as they didn't with the Offshore Game report.

    With regard to JPDT it is the result of 8 months bargaining between  SFA and TRFC and the pattern is the same as with LNS. Difference is this time that has been spotted. We will see where that takes us.

    With regard to SFA they will possibly escape censure in respect of the granting but not for telling straight porkies to the public (See Regan and Gordon above for an example) thereafter and lets say disingenous is a description that would apply to their responses to Res12 lawyers and Celtic, a member club.

    Think of Res12 as an iceberg. There is a lot more under the water than above it.

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  41. Reiver

    You seem to be comfortable with the loss of some big hitters from here but it would be foolish to believe that their departure as advantageous to the goal. You would be far better advised to take on board their reason for leaving and, after an honest critique of the site, consider whether their points are valid. From there make the adjustments to the site policies that attracts them to return.

    Strawman Reiver. I never said I was comfortable with anything. It's not a question of feeling comfortable (or otherwise) either, and had you read my message carefully you would see that we do take measures to find out why people stopped posting.

    Big hitters? I think that term gives me an idea of what you want the blog to be about, but you shouldn't judge us all by your standards. Let me restate. The blog is not a showcase for individuals. Its value lies in the collective wisdom of our community, and although it has seen some departing wisdom, the arrival hall is always full.

    You are free to comment dissenting ideas on the blog, but when you attack the basis of the platform you have been given – even after the mods welcomed you back – it seems that you attitude hasn't changed very much since you left last time you left because you thought we were somehow diminished.

    Not comfortable having this needless and irrelevant discussion on the main blog either. If you have subsequent comments, please DM me..

     

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  42. Folks,

    Tris's DM facility is not working at all. Just discovered that this morning. I don't want to pull the whole system down and rebuild for just one box though, so if anyone else is having problems, can you mail me bp@sfm.scot?

    If there are more, we can maybe sort it early in the week.

     

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