Enough is enough

As Celtic prepare to take on one of the Champions league big boys again, a warning to the commentators and pundits.

Like most Scots, I was sad to see Celtic so comprehensively thumped by PSG and Bayern recently. But something about those nights made me angry as well.

Not the players, their effort, or even the schoolboy defending. Not the semi-ritualistic way these games are presented on TV or the ludicrous hype that is generated by the media.

I blame Celtic for their own failings and the executive branch of Scottish football for facilitating that failure. And I think it is the result of a long-term strategy that has clearly failed.

What offends me is the casual referencing of the weakness of the game and players in Scotland as a key reason why Celtic struggle against the best teams, and the implicit suggestion that if only their domestic opponents were more skillful, Celtic’s Champions League training friendlies schedule, aka the SPFL Premiership, might prepare them better for these big games.

Pat Bonner said it outright in his commentary of the Bayern game. The weakness of the SPFL is the problem. Several others made the point that Celtic defenders never get the chance to play against top strikers in their own league and are, therefore, somehow unable to cope with it when they do. Others claim that Celtic are so used to being in possession of the ball and winning games easily at home, that when they face a top-quality opponent, they are suddenly caught like a rabbit in headlights without the faintest clue what to do.

I don’t know enough about the tactics of modern football, or the language used to describe systems of play, to critique that in footballing terms, but I do have a reasonable grasp of what constitutes bullshit. And so much of what our journalists, TV commentators, and pundits say, on occasions like this, is, definitely, it.

I blame Celtic for their own failings and the executive branch of Scottish football for facilitating that failure. And I think it is the result of a long-term strategy that has clearly failed.

Here’s how I think it went. Professional football in Scotland looks like it has been organised around a single goal. To generate Scottish success in the Champions League. A good way to achieve that is to ensure that Scottish teams get plenty exposure to that league. The best way to ensure that is to make sure that the same team, or teams, gain regular entry into it. The way to make that happen is to organise the league such that it is unthinkable that any other team could win it.

How might you do that without making it obvious what your intentions are?

Well, first, you lay the financial ground. Allow teams to keep their home gate receipts. That way, clubs are kept in their place, the big two stay big, the middle six to eight, not so big, and the rest, remain almost irrelevant.

To further entrench the financial status quo, you need to ensure that income from domestic sources (particularly TV money) is kept low enough to stop any other club paying for a team above their station, but not so low that mid-sized clubs go out of business.

It is our fault because we are not brave enough. Not brave enough to stand up to the powers running our game and put a stop to this madness.

Next, you would have to ensure that the rules stay in place long enough for the plan to work. Give the two big clubs the right of veto over rule changes. The masterminds of the plan have to be kept in office for as long as possible and committee members must be carefully selected. A generous portion of executives from the big two, and a fair sprinkling of others too afraid of their own clubs going to the wall to bother about grand generation-long master-plans, should guarantee no one rocks the boat too much. Allow a rogue committee member to challenge things every now and again to make it look good for the punters, safe in the knowledge that no permanent damage can be done to the plan.

But what if something unexpected happened to one of the big clubs? That could be tricky, right? The whole plan could be put in jeopardy. On the other hand, what is there to worry about when you have ensured that the decision makers are either on message or too concerned about their own teams’ survival to get in the way of a stitch up. Sure, we lost a few years, but it’ll soon get back on track.

Journalists would get wind of this surely, or even be able to work it out for themselves, right? Well, in a profession that seems to have lost most of its towering intellects to be replaced by either agenda driven zealots or barely literate fan bloggers (like me, I suppose), we might be asking a little too much of them. In any case, the overwhelming coverage of the big two in the national media and the simple fact that promoting Celtic and Rangers sells advertising space means that they are, more or less, complicit, even if they don’t always realise it.

I hope this sounds like the ramblings of a mad conspiracy theorist, but if any of the above rings true (and it does to me), then there might just be some truth on it.

Pat Bonner and those other pundits and commentators are right of course. Celtic’s failure against the big teams is the fault of the rest of Scottish football. Our players and teams aren’t good enough. But fault is a convoluted thing. It is not our fault because we are not good enough. It is our fault because we are not brave enough. Not brave enough to stand up to the powers running our game and put a stop to this madness.

I have absolutely no evidence that there is such a master-plan, or that anyone at the SFA or SPFL has even considered any of these points or the consequences that might flow from them. I even have serious doubts that any of the current leadership have the intellectual capacity to dream up such a Machiavellian plot, let alone execute it. But one thing I do know is that Scottish football is not in a healthy place. Not even a Celtic victory tonight, even if they gave some of their CL win bonus to Kilmarnock, you know, for giving them such a good run out on Saturday, would fix it.

How glorious would it be for the other Scottish teams to be credited for Celtic’s CL victories (especially the big ones)? I imagine the words would get stuck in plenty of throats. Celtic win CL games despite Scottish Football and lose them because of it. That, in a nutshell, is where we are right now. All that is likely to change any time soon is that Rangers will join them again. Something has to change, if only because my TV won’t survive another shoe being thrown at it when some Celtic minded blowhard tells the world that my team is partly to blame for Celtic’s defence not being good enough to stop Neymar or Lewandowski.

This article was first published in the unofficial Dundee Fans Forum https://www.thedarkblues.co.uk/news/scottish-football/enough-is-enough-r542/ on 23 October 2017. Reproduced, in slightly amended form, with their kind permission.

Andrak

Andrak

A Dundee fan, brought up in the city in the 70s and 80s, now lives in England.

An accountant by profession and temperament. Working in international development mostly overseas (Africa & South East Asia, mostly).

Currently based in Vientiane Laos. Never played football beyond Sunday League but watch as much Scottish football as possible.

840 Comments
  1. bigboab1916


    Ernest BeckerNovember 19, 2017 at 00:05The club was sold to a NEW company, i know it was a first but LNS made it possible and Article 14.1 and SFA complete discretion did the rest.
    If this was a first i would like to view the unicorporated certificate that finalised the divorce between club and company.Take your time if you wish since they have been doing a lot of that this couple weeks.

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  2. bigboab1916


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mhi5PlY0s4
    we got wise youre a nial in disguise oh yes you are

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  3. Homunculus

    Homunculus


    Just watching Sportscene.

    The new stand at Tynecastle is looking the part, at least on TV.

    Maybe Scottish football has a future after all.

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  4. John Clark


    HomunculusNovember 19, 2017 at 23:22
    ‘…The new stand at Tynecastle is looking the part, at least on TV.’
    __________
    Lord, it made my feet itch to be on that pitch, it looked so superb.And when I think of how good I was on the ash pitches in Carntyne in 19 fifty feckin 4, I wonder what my slide-rule passes  would have been like on a surface like that!21

    I listened to  Sportsound (before the radio commentary on the match), and I have to say that Richard Gordon kind of disappointed me by appearing to focus on the ‘safety certificate’ delay, rather than on the really positive and celebratory aspects of a significant community and sporting occasion.

    An occasion made possible only by the sheer determination of honest people to save, by honest means, their historic club from death by Liquidation, the prospect of which had been  caused by a sleazeball ‘owner’
    There was another sleazeball of an owner of another club……a club to save which the very  Sports Governing body threw out the rule book and all adherence to a belief in Integrity and honesty in sport.

    Which sleazeball was not at all criticised on BBC Radio Scotland at any time!

    They were too feart to do that.Or, perhaps, too emotionally involved, too stuffed with succulent lamb.

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  5. Ernest Becker


    Boab,
    If this was a first i would like to view the unicorporated certificate that finalised the divorce between club and company.Take your time if you wish since they have been doing a lot of that this couple weeks.
    RFC was never married to a unicorn and for the last time complete discretion quashes all procedural arguments,it was a carte blanche agreement.

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  6. Ernest Becker


    AULDHEID,

    Article 45(d) is interesting.

    Article 45 – Written contract with a football company

    d) If the football company is put into bankruptcy or enters liquidation, this isdeemed to be an interruption of membership or contractual relationship withinthe meaning of Article 12.

    so is this:
     (CFCB) analyses each season three years’ worth of club financial figures, for all clubs in UEFA competitions, 
    http://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2064391.html

    Early days.

    p.s Whoever said no such thing as a football company is wrong.

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  7. Smugas


    Wow.  Selective AND circular!

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  8. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    for the last time complete discretion has never openly been said or stated by the SFA.19

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  9. justbecauseyoureparanoid


    Please stop feeding the sevco troll. 

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  10. smallchange


    Concur.
    A well planned and orchestrated assault requiring mountains of paperwork and a willingness to work a shift system. Hmmm wonder where this control room is situated and who authorised its activation on this occasion.
    All credit to the usual guys on here for being willing to engage in these events but how many days is it now…
    Back to lurking 

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  11. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    CLUSTER ONENOVEMBER 19, 2017 at 20:00
    UPTHEHOOPSNOVEMBER 19, 2017 at 08:52 40 0 Rate ThisA very interesting first phone call to Radio Clyde last night where a Rangers fan named James made a very impassioned observation of the current Ibrox board. Why were the fans groups prepared to do anything to oust the previous board, but are willing to put up with this one not keeping any of its promises? —————–JIMBONOVEMBER 19, 2017 at 10:58 26 0 Rate ThisYes it’s a strange one Up The Hoops.  Why all this misplaced trust by the bears in their boards of directors.—————-Rangers boss Ally McCoist set to be handed £30m once transfer embargo is liftedRangers chief Charles Green will hand Ally McCoist up to £30m for new signings when their transfer embargo is lifted.20/12/12 http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/8342844/Rangers-boss-Ally-McCoist-set-to-be-handed-30m-once-transfer-embargo-is-lifted———They soon seen through charles Green’s bluster,and it was all get rid of the board(but some still believe he bought a football club 140 years old).Then came.£50m! That’s how much King says it will take to rebuild Rangers — and he’ll put up lion’s sharehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2588429/Dave-King-commit-30m-ensure-Rangers-return-Scottish-Premiership.html.———–So very strange indeed
    _______________

    Two things, I believe, are paramount in this phenomenon of unquestioning belief in Dave King and his board. A board led by a convicted criminal and serial liar.

    The first is he is seen as a Real Rangers Man (whatever that might actually mean), as are the rest of his board, and so, apparently, to be trusted to never do anything that might harm ‘the club’.

    The second, and this might be where Ernest comes in, along with all the other promoters of the big lie. Almost to a bear, they believe their club cannot die and they can see no reason, therefor, to ‘live within their means’. A football club that cannot die has nothing to fear from an overspending board, indeed, a board that doesn’t overspend has no right to govern such an immortal club and must be expelled from the Blue Room before too much repair work has been done.

    In the normal course of life, one might expect people to live by the maxim, ‘once bitten, twice shy’, and not risk losing a second loved entity having watched the first die in very similar circumstances to what we are witnessing now. But give people who already had a superiority complex the veneer of immortality, and all they can see is the need for glory, at all cost, for, in their manipulated minds, their club is a phoenix that will rise again, no matter how often it goes down in flames. To them, insolvency has been normalized (see EB’s posts), and holds no fears. That is what Charles Green, the SFA and SPL, along with the compliant SMSM, have done – removed the fear factor of insolvency, administration and liquidation from Ibrox. It is the loss of the self preservation fear factor, that stopped early man from stepping off a cliff to see what would happen, that has been removed from the psyche of the bears. 

    Put another way, an unkind way, perhaps, but zombies (the undead) don’t fear death, and will walk headlong towards obliteration to reach their goal!

    Perhaps, currently, a PR guru has decided that there is a need to remind people that a ‘Club’ cannot die, and so has re-ignited the ‘same club’ argument!

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  12. jimbo

    jimbo


    Don’t know about anyone else but I’m getting heartily sick of all this speculation regarding the manager’s job at Ibrox.  Why can’t the media just come out en masse and say what the rest of us know?  They are skint!  They can’t afford any compo. payments.  Can’t afford a war chest in the Jan. transfer window. 

    I just wish they would appoint someone, anyone!  Free up the sports pages for some other stories.  01

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  13. Ernest Becker


    AULDHEID,

    On the specific question of whether UEFA considers Rangers the same club with the same history there seems little doubt.
    https://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50121/profile/index.html

    It appears an interrupted membership does not result in the club;s death,so the SFA and UEFA are as one on the question of sporting integrity. 

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  14. Ernest Becker


    AULDHEID,

    I think Andrea’s use of the term ” new club/company ” being ineligible for 3 years was simply a poor choice of words as their position seems to be as follows.
    A liquidated football company falls under Article 12 via Article 46(d) and the new company that owns the club is ineligible for 3 years until it has 3 continuous years accounts,and the club has its membership interrupted for those 3 years but maintains its identity and history.
    In effect UEFA accepts the club transfer and there appears to be no sporting integrity contradictions.

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  15. Finloch


    Enough already, its now beyond tedious.

    Please stop engaging with the ever decreasing circular squirrelry from our recently arrived EBster

    Please also stop feeding with thumbs up or down.

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  16. Ernest Becker


    ALLYJAMBO,
    The first is he is seen as a Real Rangers Man (whatever that might actually mean), as are the rest of his board, and so, apparently, to be trusted to never do anything that might harm ‘the club’.

    The Board are providing unsecured interest free loans which at some stage will be converted into shares,i would imagine it is not in their interests to intentionally harm the club.
    They chose the wrong manager who chose some poor highly paid players,hardly unique in football.

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  17. bigboab1916


    You’re forgetting something in your argument, no other club that went into administration lost any of their players why was this?
    A) was it because the players are contracted and cannot walk away because the club and company have a hold on them because they came out of admin?
    B) Rangers players could walk away TUPE free because the club and company could not exit administration and were liquidated and this freed the players from the contract.
    C) The club you think is the same could not compete in a testimonial (and later also took the field as Sevco) as the club no longer retained a licence and Rangers were still in the leauge, why was the licence removed?
    why did they have to apply for a licence yet Hearts,livingstone did not and as stated kept their players and could transfer them for returns if they wished yet the Sevco could not transfer players.
    I think you are clutching at straws mate and are putting out the same pish as the MSM.

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  18. Ernest Becker


    Aberdeen FC is debt free because REAL ABERDEEN MEN paid off their 14 million overspending debt.

    Good on them because nobody in their right mind invests in Scottish football to make money,it has to be a labour of love.

    Rangers are no different and their fans don’t think the Aberdeen fans are claiming superiority by accepting the generosity of Milne and Donald.

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  19. Ernest Becker


    BOAB,

    Why are you asking me questions that are irrelevant to the membership transfer?
    I am not denying liquidation.

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  20. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    ERNEST BECKERNOVEMBER 20, 2017 at 13:01
    ALLYJAMBO,The first is he is seen as a Real Rangers Man (whatever that might actually mean), as are the rest of his board, and so, apparently, to be trusted to never do anything that might harm ‘the club’.
    The Board are providing unsecured interest free loans which at some stage will be converted into shares,i would imagine it is not in their interests to intentionally harm the club.They chose the wrong manager who chose some poor highly paid players,hardly unique in football.
    ___________

    Where do I suggest the board are intentionally harming the club? I am sure they would all, including King, love to see the club prosper, and that only King is looking to make a profit from his ‘investment’. There can be no doubt, though, that they are putting the desperation for success way ahead of good fiscal governance and that continued losses are a sure sign of that fact. 

    There can also be little doubt that under Mike Ashley they were heading in the right direction, financially, and that they would have been just as ‘successful’ under him as they have been, while now, almost certainly, on a sounder financial footing. 

    There were, of course, other points in my previous post you could have challenged, but chose to criticise one in an entirely Steerpike way, that is, introduce something that wasn’t there and explains nothing.

    You missed the whole point of the post, anyway, which was made as a suggestion of why it is the bears are happy to accept this financial car crash scenario, after they were more than happy to chase out the board that looked capable of providing sound financial governance.

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  21. fishnish

    fishnish


    “Why are you asking me questions that are irrelevant to the membership transfer? I am not denying liquidation.”
    Ern…
    If you’re not denying liquidation, then why belabour irrelevant, metaphysical questions about a spurious membership?

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  22. woodstein

    woodstein


    “Rangers’ dithering in managerial hunt could also see them miss out on obvious candidate Derek McInnes.”
    By
    Keith Jackson
    06:00, 20 NOV 2017
     
    “It’s an uncomfortable and unenviable position for McInnes who, in many ways, is becoming the victim of a chronic lack of cohesion at the top of the Ibrox staircase”
     
    “It’s an uncomfortable and unenviable position for McInnes who, in many ways, is becoming the victim of a chronic case of meddling by newspapers like us and people like me”
     
    Fixed that for you Keith10

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  23. Ex Ludo

    Ex Ludo


    Ok, I’ll bite.
    “Good on them because nobody in their right mind invests in Scottish football to make money,it has to be a labour of love.”
    How would you describe SDM’s involvement with Scottish football Ernest?

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  24. bigboab1916


    http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/bdo-send-rangers-bond-holders-a-cheque-for-58-for-their-1500-investment-in-club/
    And should you wish to invest again we are going to do it all over again.

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  25. Auldheid


    AULDHEID,
    I think Andrea Traverso’s use of the term new club/company being ineligible for 3 years was simply a poor choice of words as their position seems to be as follows. A liquidated football company falls under Article 12 via Article 46(d) and the new company that owns the club is ineligible for 3 years until it has 3 continuous years accounts,and the club has its membership interrupted for those 3 years but maintains its identity and history. In effect UEFA accepts the club transfer and there appears to be no sporting integrity contradictions.====================
    If you are going to continue spouting complete and utter tripe I’m going to have to do the equivalent of a Twitter Block, however I will make one last reply.
    UEFA rules cater for all sorts of football entity constructs in Europe so that UEFA have to define who an applicant can be and do so in Art 12:
    1 A licence applicant may <strong>only be a football club</strong>, i.e. a legal entity fully responsible for a football team participating in national and international competitions whicheither:
    a) is a registered member of a UEFA member association and/or its affiliatedleague (hereinafter: registered member); or
    b) has a contractual relationship with a registered member (hereinafter: football company).
    Rangers were a football club under 1(a) unless they were an applicant under 1 (b) where that relationship is covered by Article 45 &nbsp;
    Article 45 &ndash; Written contract with a football company
    1 If the licence applicant is a football company as defined in Article 12(1b), it must<strong>provide a written contract of assignment with a registered member.</strong>the rest of Art45 sets out what the contract must cover
    2 The contract must stipulate the following, as a minimum:a) The football company must comply with the applicable statutes, regulations, directives and decisions of FIFA, UEFA, the UEFA member association and its affiliated league.b) The football company must not further assign its right to participate in a competition at national or international level.c) The right of this football company to participate in such a competition ceasesto apply if the assigning club&rsquo;s membership of the association ceases.d) If the football company is put into bankruptcy or enters liquidation, the right toapply for a licence to enter an international and/or national competition reverts to the registered member. For the sake of clarity, should the licence have already been granted to the football company, then it cannot betransferred from the football company to the registered member; only the right to apply for a licence the following season reverts to the registered member.e) The UEFA member association must be reserved the right to approve thename under which the football company participates in the national competitions.f) The football company must, at the request of the competent national arbitration tribunal or CAS, provide views, information, and documents on matters regarding the football company&rsquo;s participation in the national and/or international competition.
    3 The contract of assignment and any amendment to it must be approved by theUEFA member association and/or its affiliated league.
    Now whilst the new club/company TRFC/TRIFC might have such a contract (and it would be interesting to see if it was TRIFC that applied for a licence for 2017/18, who but Rangers FC could have could have applied for a licence as define by Art12 1a   prior to liquidation?
    MIH?&nbsp;
    No Traverso being the Head of Club Licensing did not use a poor choice of words although his response&nbsp;came as such a surprise to the addressees, (Celtic Shareholders, Celtic and the SFA who never corrected how STV portrayed &nbsp;the UEFA response), he was quite precise in describing the NEW club/company ie TRFC/TRIFC in the way that he did.
    The context of that reply was UEFA could not in 2012 have sanctioned Rangers in football rule terms as a result of their liquidation (meaning Rangers no longer existed) and that they had been replaced by a club/company construct under Art 12b) (assuming a written contract exists) that was new (not the same).
    Thus the club applying as defined by UEFA after 2012 was a new club falling under&nbsp;Art12 1b.
    The key word here is “new” and Traverso was quite precise and consistent with Art12 in using club/company thereafter.
    Enough of the rules.
    Why does Art 12 exist at all? What is its aim in fair play terms? It is to stop clubs&nbsp;using administration/liquidation to dumping debt and carrying on playing in UEFA competition at the same level as previously and immediately after such a debt dumping event as if nothing untoward had happened. Yet that is what&nbsp;the SFA tried to do in Scotland &nbsp;until supporters told clubs to sling their hook because the sheer unfairness and moral hazard to the game was recognised by them.
    Where Art 12 says” to facilitate its qualification on sporting merit and/or its receipt of a licence <strong>to the detriment of the integrity of a competition </strong>they are doing what Scottish football has neglected and that is protect the integrity of the game in Scotland
    Frankly if the value of that stance is not seen by your club and support, it calls into question what game do you guys think you are playing because it is not sport as the majority perceive it.

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  26. wottpi


    ERNEST BECKERNOVEMBER 20, 2017 at 13:17
    Aberdeen FC is debt free because REAL ABERDEEN MEN paid off their 14 million overspending debt.
    Good on them because nobody in their right mind invests in Scottish football to make money,it has to be a labour of love.
    Rangers are no different and their fans don’t think the Aberdeen fans are claiming superiority by accepting the generosity of Milne and Donald.

    ———————————————————————————-

    I have to agree with the above on the main point that Aberdeen (and as I posted the other week, Hibs previously) have restructured their multi million pound debts in the recent past through the generosity of fans and the understanding of their banks.

    The reality however is that, along with other clubs like Hearts and Dunfermline,  having finally resolved the financial difficulties that were created by trying to be Billy Big Baws in the past, these clubs are now trying to run themselves in a sustainable manner, with future loans and subsequent debt at Hearts and Aberdeen being related to capital improvements for new stands and stadiums.

    The problem at Ibrox is the soft loan money is required just to keep the lights on.

    The board of the Plc is run by a convicted tax dodger and they have recently brought in an ex-chairman whose answer to the financial problems at the old club is well recorded as merely hoping SDM would pour more good money after bad, as opposed to facing up to the reality of the problems that surround the club.

    Mini Murray doesn’t have a pot to piss in and the Park’s well must be running dry.

    The newly released Hearts accounts have revealed they have bank loan money in place if required. That shows a degree of financial prudence and trust from the banking sector.

    Lord knows Hearts could do with splurging cash on the playing squad but I expect more of the same in terms of trying to seek out bargain bucket talent.

    To borrow a phrase from somewhere else. Despite all the income and soft loans from the loyal fan base at Ibrox the club remains a loss making business without a line of credit from the banks.

    I’m not saying T’Rangers will go bust but they certainly are not going to be anything other than bang average unless someone really grasps the concept of rebuilding from scratch or a real sugar daddy appears. 

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  27. Auldheid


    Mods
    Can you delete my earlier reply to EB at 15.00 ? Ta

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  28. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    JIMBO
    NOVEMBER 20, 2017 at 11:27 
    Don’t know about anyone else but I’m getting heartily sick of all this speculation regarding the manager’s job at Ibrox.  Why can’t the media just come out en masse and say what the rest of us know?  They are skint!  They can’t afford any compo. payments.  Can’t afford a war chest in the Jan. transfer window. 
    I just wish they would appoint someone, anyone!  Free up the sports pages for some other stories.  
    ==============================

    I’m guessing that the deadline for appointing the next TRFC manager could be the AGM ?
    It is scheduled for Thursday 30th of this month.

    Suppose they could even negotiate to get an out of work, experienced manager – like McLeish perhaps – on a minimal salary, but a hefty bonus if TRFC finishes the season e.g. in the top 3 ?

    They get in a ‘decent’ manager now – and avoid additional cash flow strain in the short-term ?

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  29. Smugas


    Interesting conundrum around AGM time too that I’m not convinced is entirely co-incidental.  Aberdeen at Ibrox on the 29th (ish) and then Rangers at Pittodrie on the 2nd (ish).

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  30. woodstein

    woodstein


    smallchange
    November 20, 2017 at 10:09
    —————————————————– 
    Glad you asked
    6 days (15/11/2017 – 20/11/2017) inclusive
    And 38 posts approx.
     
    Also can anyone tell me what an unicorporated certificate is?

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  31. Smugas


    Auldheid,

    Firstly could I take the time to thank you for your patience.  It’s certainly appreciated in reinforcing my understanding.

    secondly, re the club company construct as per Article 12 (b).  Is that not more likely to be a workaround for a situation where the club (small ‘c’ Rod) is unincorporated (or whatever the various european intra-country equivalents are) such that they have to assign their right to participate to a valid trading entity?  (A bit like the Brechin? Situation that HP describes re the SPL2 farrago).  So 45d says (to me) that in the event the latter party goes squit the right to apply to compete reverts to the unincorporated national association member (but to be clear specifically only the right to apply, not the absolute right to compete).  

    The point being I’m not sure if 12(b) would apply to a company:company construct like RIFC/TRFC in superseding 12(a).  I can’t see what the benefit in so doing would be but like you, the threat of so doing seems glaringly obvious.

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  32. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    Shirley some mistake in the Scottish Cup draw ? TRFC drawn away ? Again ? Wouldn’t have happened to the old club .Mibbes they’ve asked to be embarrassed somewhere else for a change .
    PS  there’s somebody posting on here who is also posting elsewhere , saying that he/she is ripping the pish from all and sundry on this site , and casting aspersions at individual posters . Their acolytes don’t seem to realise that they are ripping the pish out of them as well . 
    Does this remind you of anyone ? (from Wiki)
    A person with a god complex may refuse to admit the possibility of their error or failure, even in the face of irrefutable evidence, intractable problems or difficult or impossible tasks. The person is also highly dogmatic in their views, meaning the person speaks of their personal opinions as though they were unquestionably correct.[1] Someone with a god complex may exhibit no regard for the conventions and demands of society, and may request special consideration or privileges.[1]
    God complex is not a clinical term or diagnosable disorder and does not appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).
    The first person to use the term god-complex was Ernest Jones (1913–51).[2] His description, at least in the contents page of Essays in Applied Psycho-Analysis, describes the god complex as belief that one is a god.[3]

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  33. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    JIMBONOVEMBER 20, 2017 at 11:27 31 1 Rate This
    Don’t know about anyone else but I’m getting heartily sick of all this speculation regarding the manager’s job at Ibrox.  Why can’t the media just come out en masse and say what the rest of us know?  They are skint!  They can’t afford any compo. payments.  Can’t afford a war chest in the Jan. transfer window. 
    I just wish they would appoint someone, anyone!  Free up the sports pages for some other stories. 
    ———————
    That would not free up the sports pages it would just add to it. Before a ball is kicked the new manager would be in line for the England job, we will be told to bask in the ticky tacky football, he will have 11 captains on the field then all the rest of the hullaballo the SMSM will put out. so for now best enjoy what you can.

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  34. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    PADDY MALARKEYNOVEMBER 20, 2017 at 17:41
    ———————
    PS  there’s somebody posting on here who is also posting elsewhere , saying that he/she is ripping the pish from all and sundry on this site ,
    —————
    If you have ripped the pish out of all and sundry,you don’t have to say to anyone,everyone knows.When you have to tell everyone you have ripped the pish that is when you have not05

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  35. Auldheid


    Smugas
    I think Art12 1b could only apply to TRFC/ TRIFC if a written contract meeting the conditions in Art 45 exists.
    As I tried to suggest I’m not sure that it does and I very much doubt if one existed between RFC and who? MIH?
    Whilst it might cover the Brechin situation I doubt it exists just for them. What it is saying is if your are a member of the national association but have handed the running of your club to a Company to operate it (not hold it) then a written contract to do so has to exist to enable UEFA to consider an application from that company that has the authority of the club being operated.
    Southampton tried the operating company trick on FA and UEFA when they were in trouble and told to take a hike.

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  36. Smugas


    Exactly.  Other than simply trying to be smart with debt, tax, possibly employment law etc a la Southampton I can’t think why a company:company construct where the former was the recognised national club and the latter was the european, em, club why that situation would even exist?

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  37. Auldheid


    Smugas

    Here is a link to the Southampton attempt to separate their club from their holding company even when one actually appeared to exist.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8014811.stm
    The reasons why that separation was dismissed by the FA (UEFA not involved) in football regulation terms  and  why the SFA could not support the idea that until 2012 there were two separate entities at play at Ibrox,  is the forensic examination of the Southampton  accounts where the only business in the accounts of the supposed separate company was the football business of Southampton!
    The accounts put forward by Rangers to obtain licences related only to Rangers and are the concrete proof that there was no holding company or at least would be if the FA were the judges.
    The SFA have never declared their position on the matter, even after Traverso told them UEFA’s stance.

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  38. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    CLUSTER ONENOVEMBER 20, 2017 at 18:58

    English not being my first language ( I’m from Maryhill) , I meant to say that they are boasting of their prowess at urine extraction on the other site . Although I agree with your last sentence .

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  39. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    Attachment

    I hear everyone likes an old newspaper article?
    I should post more but i try and keep them relevant to the subject in discussion.
    Anyway here’s one that is not.but i liked the headline.

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  40. jimbo

    jimbo


    Paddy Malarkey.   Funny you should mention Maryhill.  I’m desperate for a job.  The only sniff I’ve had of one was in Maryhill.  But from where I come from it was a non starter.  I looked up the timetables of buses and trains (thanks to some help from some guys on CQN) but it was out the question.

    At the time my central heating was broken down. No hot water either.  I have never felt so miserable in all my life.  No money to fix.  I phoned a guy last Friday from the Saint Vincent de Paul.  Within an hour he came up with the £99 I needed to get a boiler repair.  I cannot tell you how it felt to be warm again on Saturday after a month and since. 

    I know my broadband is a luxury I cannot afford.  I rarely go out.  And it keeps me from the absolute bottom of despair.

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  41. MercDoc


    Is Adam back. Last time I heard from him, he was adamant Craig Whyte would come good! RTC thought otherwise.

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  42. Big Pink


    TWM #21 With @mattleslie74 and Auldheid. Includes updates on the Fans 4 Judicial Review & Resolution 12, “Standgate”, quotes from John Clark, and Scotland & TRFC managerial vacancies.

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  43. Ernest Becker


    AULDHEID,

    Thanks for your response and here is mine.

    We are both speculating on the reasons for a 3 year ban because we do not KNOW,there is to my knowledge not a single statement from UEFA confirming Article 12 as the reason for a 3 year ban nor is there an official statement declaring RFC a new club.

    You assume Article 12 is the reason and you assume Andrea was being precise in using the term new club/company,and to be fair your assumptions are not utter tripe.
    However my problem with your assumptions is UEFA recognise Rangers FC as the SAME club with a continuous history and this casts some doubt on your conclusions.
    How can Andrea’s new club/company keep the history of an old club/company? Well the only logical explanation is Andrea was not being as precise as you hope and your case needs,ergo it is not utter tripe to suggest he meant something else or was simply in error.
    Therefore it is perfectly legitimate for me to look at other alternative explanations and to propose them to you for civilised discussion.
    What we can say we know is this,whatever interrupted membership means,it does not mean a death sentence on RFC which quashes your main objection apropos sporting integrity.
    RFC took their 3 year ban for whatever reason and with the blessings of UEFA continued with an unbroken history in both UEFA and the SFA.

    Peace.

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  44. Ernest Becker


    PADDY MALARKEYNOVEMBER 20, 2017 at 20:27

    For the avoidance of doubt i am unaware and uninvolved.

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  45. Ernest Becker


    WOTTPI,

    The problem at Ibrox is the soft loan money is required just to keep the lights on.

    This may have the been the case at the beginning but recent loans are to supplement a higher wage bill for a period of years until RFC improves its domestic turnover and essentially Europa income.
    RFC could shuffle along and break even on a domestic turnover of 30 million or so with a wage bill to suit but this would risk a drop in ST sales and a far less chance of Europa qualification.
    CFC are light years ahead so best case scenario in the next few years is to cement 2nd place and try and get into Europe.
    My thoughts on DK are simple,i would prefer someone squeaky clean like Dermot Desmond but beggars cant be choosers,there isn’t exactly a queue of people willing to burn money out of fan loyalty.
    There is a great deal of chat on here about the importance of the fans,lest we forget Rangers fans are fans too.

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  46. Ernest Becker


    AULDHEID,

    The plot thickens.

    The licence required to contest UEFA competitions can only be obtained by clubs that have been members of their national association for three years. If Rangers enter administration then fail to strike a deal with their creditors, the prospect of starting up again as a new company becomes a realistic possibility, but one UEFA is alert to. 
    “If a club sets up a new company simply to avoid paying its debts or obligations then they would almost certainly fail the three-year rule,” a spokesperson for UEFA told Scotland On Sunday. “This is to ensure clubs do not simply create a ‘newco’ and leave the previous entity in charge of dealing with debts.” 
    http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers-run-risk-of-three-year-euro-exile-if-they-lose-tax-case-1-1938625

    Following a failed appeal by Timisoara to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, UEFA made the following statement: “Clubs are not allowed to change their legal form or structure in order to obtain a licence, simply by ‘cleaning up’ their balance sheet while offloading debts – thus harming creditors (including employees and social/tax authorities) as well as threatening the integrity of sporting competition. Any such alteration of a club’s legal form or structure is deemed to be an interruption to its membership of a UEFA member association and consequently three years must pass before a club can apply again for a UEFA licence. In other words, the three-year rule is designed basically to avoid circumvention of the club licensing system.”

    I think you are correct, the 3 year rule relates to Article 12,where i think the confusion arises is Andrea using the term new club/company instead of club/new company.
    The SFA transfer maintained the 3 year membership criteria but liquidation of oldco interrupted the UEFA membership of RFC for 3 years.
    What is plain is UEFA had plenty of experience in dealing with a club seperating from a company.

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  47. Ernest Becker


    AULDHEID,

    RFC may have got some slack from UEFA because the club did not set up a new company to avoid debts,the old company was liquidated along with their debts and a new company bought the club,the owner/operators were not the same.

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  48. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    That’s a really good Podcast BP.
    An informative and enjoyable listen.04

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  49. Ernest Becker


    AULDHEID,

    Since the purpose of Article 12 is to stop clubs dumping debt then what is the difference between a CVA exit and liquidation,both dump debt so would both face 3 year bans ?

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  50. shug

    shug


    For the love of the wee man EB stop spouting p++h your club is dead it committed suicide so jog on nothing to be gained.

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  51. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    Attachment

    a new company bought the club?
    please point out what part is the club that charles Green bought.
    Then can you name this company that bought this club?
    and can you now tell me the name of this company today?

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  52. upthehoops


    The Clumpany, who sometimes posts on here, get’s it spot on in terms of the media coverage of a new Manager search at Ibrox.

    https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2017/11/20/and-the-new-sevco-manager-is/

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  53. Smugas


    I wonder why the apparently prone to error Traverso’s UEFA wrote that “a”  club could apply.  Not “the” club?

    and I’m afraid a CVA isn’t dumping debt hence the requirement for the creditors agreement which you didn’t get.  

    Next.

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  54. LUGOSI

    LUGOSI


    I think I’ve got the solution to the biggest, most perplexingest, pure unstaunch problem at Ibrox.
    Three in a row.
    One poster got a five in a row and if it hadn’t been for that pesky STEVIEBC it would have been a six in a row.
    The solution is obvious; henceforth all games involving the Ibrox team will kick off at two in the morning when the rest of the civilised world is aslumber. With any luck the opposition won’t turn up; the Ibrox team kick off; score; there’s no one to restart the game and the Ibrox team gets the win.
    Only possible flaw is if the opposition don’t turn up and the Ibrox team manage to muck up the bit where they score.
    Even Jabba and his minions would be hard pressed to promote a team whose new world record was that they couldn’t beat sleep.

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  55. LUGOSI

    LUGOSI


    PADDY MALARKEY NOVEMBER 20, 2017 at 17:41
    You referred to Steerpishgate.
    Which particular swamp is this in?
    Ten seconds is all it usually takes to find out if claims such as “unaware and uninvolved” (NOVEMBER 21, 2017 at 01:46) are true.
    Is that two in a row?
    The Chase Is On.

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  56. Portbhoy


    EB, Take some sound advice from a very knowledgeable and talented player, …

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  57. Allyjambo

    Allyjambo


    ERNEST BECKERNOVEMBER 21, 2017 at 02:08
    WOTTPI,
    The problem at Ibrox is the soft loan money is required just to keep the lights on.
    This may have the been the case at the beginning but recent loans are to supplement a higher wage bill for a period of years until RFC improves its domestic turnover and essentially Europa income.RFC could shuffle along and break even on a domestic turnover of 30 million or so with a wage bill to suit but this would risk a drop in ST sales and a far less chance of Europa qualification.CFC are light years ahead so best case scenario in the next few years is to cement 2nd place and try and get into Europe.My thoughts on DK are simple,i would prefer someone squeaky clean like Dermot Desmond but beggars cant be choosers,there isn’t exactly a queue of people willing to burn money out of fan loyalty.There is a great deal of chat on here about the importance of the fans,lest we forget Rangers fans are fans too.
    ___________

    Is EB taking part in a competition with himself to see which EB can write the stupidest post on SFM, ever?

    For his enlightenment; ‘to keep the lights on’ is a coloquial way of saying ‘to meet working capital’. Working capital is the day to day costs of a business, and includes wages. In the case of a football club, that includes the wages of the players, regardless of their abilities, and signing expensive players, even if they give value for money,  only pays off if their presence leads to increased revenue of a level that leads to profit. So far, that business model at Ibrox is a complete failure, and to promote it as anything else is just plain stupid.

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  58. wottpi


    ERNEST BECKER
    NOVEMBER 21, 2017 at 02:08

    The latest accounts show income of circa £29m and expenditure of circa £33m.
    Even discounting the £3m paid to Ashley the club is standing still.

    This season they most likely have increased the players wage bill above the £10.4m quoted in last years accounts.

    For that they are currently sitting fourth in the table and as someone pointed out on The Bears Den a supposed £10m ‘investment’ has gained them one point when compared to the same period last year.

    Alex Rae was quizzed heavily on the finances by Michael Stewart last night on Sportsound in relation to why T’Rangers hadn’t gone for McInnes by now. Rae believes there is masses of extra money to come form retail. However my reading is that any increase in retail income is likely to be pissed up against a wall.

    The scenario you describe is the same gamble that saw SDM run the old club into the ground and the same gamble that has seen the likes of Leeds languish in the lower English divisions for years.

    The problem you point to regarding crowds dropping has yet to materialise and I applaud T’Rangers fans for standing firm but I agree there is only so much shit they will take as they will begin to find it hard to accept that, despite the income they have, the mismanagement of the club means they will be bang average for a while yet. 

    Of course the news that Alves refused selection as a sub at the weekend may ease the wage bill in the not so distant football.

    Portugal centre-half Bruno Alves refused selection as a Rangers substitute for Saturday’s defeat at home to Hamilton Academical and is unhappy at being dropped by caretaker manager Graeme Murty. (The Times)

    The club just loves player/manager disputes and paying over the odds for gardeners!!

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  59. easyJambo


    I was disappointed to read Joe McHugh’s article on Videocelts yesterday about Hearts “mystery” benefactor, as if, in some way, there was something untoward about it.

    It is difficult to fathom the motive behind who would make such a donation unless of course they have something to hide and want to remain out of the spotlight.

    The existence “mystery” benefactors has been in the public domain since it was announced before work started on the new stand in October 2016.  At that that time Ann stated “The benefactors is basically philanthropic givings, which is very generous” The fact that it has now appeared in black and white in the Profit and Loss account hardly means that it remains out the spotlight, unless the motive is to hide it in plain sight.

    I should also correct Joe’s error of stating that the donation was part of Hearts turnover.  Donations are not part of a club’s turnover.

    Joe goes on to state “it’s realistic to expect that some sort of security has been provided to the ‘generous benefactor’.  Sorry Joe, this is a donation, not a soft loan.
     
    Ann Budge has used her network of wealthy business associates to benefit Hearts previously, with the 3 year shirt deal involving “Save the Children” being similarly funded. That was announced in April 2015 with the following statement by Ann Budge. “The partnership is being funded through philanthropy in a seven-figure three-year deal that supports both the club and the charity”.    

    That investment didn’t prompt Joe or anyone else to raise an eyebrow then, so why is it an issue now? Surely it can’t be a deflection tactic following the recent spotlight on Celtic’s largest shareholder. 

    The identity of Hearts “mystery” benefactors has been discussed at length on Hearts message boards for some time with various names mentioned including the Roseberry family, partners in a major legal firm and even Ann  Budge herself. 

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  60. Auldheid


    Ernst Becker 
    I try hard not to make assumptions and a long time ago I checked the purpose of Res12 with a chap who earns a living interpreting football rules. Interestingly I did not mention Rangers in my question but he came back quoting them as an example of what Art12 is meant to stop. 
    The difference between administration and liquidation is creditors agree to a proposal that let’s them recover some of what they are owed from a business they believe can continue on a sustainable basis via a CVA. If that is rejected creditors are saying they don’t believe the basis of the CVA which is a sustainable business exists and have a better chance of compensation from the carcass  of the business where the assets are sold off to pay them.
    In an accepted CVA the business continues, in a rejected CVA it’s good night Vienna.In an accepted CVA the creditors are in effect agreeing to a degree of debt dumping. In a rejected CVA they are not accepting the degree and want recompensed more.
    Thanks for finding that Scotsman article by Andrew Smith, what a story I could tell there but it does confirm what I had been told independently about the purpose of Res12. If Smith ever ran with it in 2012 when Regan and SFA tried to push the new club into the Premier division, I’ve missed it.
    On Art12 note that it says only a football club can be an applicant, then defines the two constructs a club can take. 12a is a standalone club 12b is first of all a club that is a member of a national association that has a written contract with a company to run it, in effect fusing the two into one. The key word is “new” and club/company covers 12a and 12b
    It has to be so otherwise clubs could, like Southampton claim their holding company was insolvent, jettison the holding company and carry on free of the debt accrued via the football business that a club is. The FA rejected that claim for the same reason Art12 exists, it introduces a moral hazard AND is a deterrent to loans being offered to football because if allowed it gives clubs carte blanche to walk away without repayment. 
    Spiritually Rangers will always be Rangers to a Rangers  supporter. It’s like a religious belief and should be left in that context. However just as no religion should try to convince another that the other is  wrong and they are right,  so too should Rangers supporters stop trying to prove to others they are right. The idea of 54 and counting is just a manifestation of that belief, which is fine if confined to the spiritual realm, but when the football authorities try to force that idea into the heads of other supporters when it conflicts with sound and reasonable football rules the football authorities are supposed to apply, then you have the problem that keeps the debate going.
    Same club? The man from UEFA say no. 😊

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  61. AmFearLiathMòr

    AmFearLiathMòr


    Here’s an interesting excerpt from the latest interview with EBT recipient Alex Rate on the BBC website:

    McInnes’ former Rangers team-mate Giovanni van Bronckhorst has also been mentioned in connection with the Rangers job, but the Feyenoord manager said on Monday: “I have seen the media coverage but I am fully focused at Feyenoord and I will be focusing on Feyenoord for the next years.
    “I obviously had a great time in Scotland with Rangers, I think one of the best times I had abroad.
    “But at the moment, for me, all that counts is Feyenoord. You can never tell, maybe in the future, because it is still a club in my heart.”

    I say interesting, because, if nothing else, what were the journalists basing their story on? Surely not a kite-flying exercise?

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  62. John Clark


    AuldheidNovember 21, 2017 at 12:36
    ‘..when the football authorities try to force that idea into the heads of other supporters when it conflicts with sound and reasonable football rules the football authorities are supposed to apply..’
    _________
    Precisely.
    What RIFCplc/TRFC Ltd and their supporters and the SMSM say is neither here nor there, whether they are consciously lying to the rest of us or are have been shocked into delusion by the emotional blow of losing their club.
    The Truth is that neither the SFA nor the SPFL can  legitimise the Big Lie.  Rangers of old is no more. It has not been, and cannot be , resurrected.
    TRFC Ltd is a 6-years-old football club, utterly unconnected with RFC(IL)- legally, commercially and in relation to football honours earned.
    If there were any kind of link to be made, it would be the shameful one of being linked in cheating: RFC(IL) was,until its Liquidation,in the control successively of master-cheats SDM and CW,   and TRFC Ltd and RIFC plc are also in the control of cheats, some of whom,indeed,  were on the board of the club that is now in Liquidation.
    One would almost feel compassion for the common run of supporter, being so badly let down by the same unpleasant types of businessmen.

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  63. Smugas


    For info I see JJ has published an extract of a pending Craig Whyte book.  Looking forward to it.  I just hope he says what happened and leaves it at that (other than being entitled to offer his own opinion on what happened of course).  Please Craig (if you’re reading 04)  don’t go down the well travelled route of others and attempt to embellish simply with a view to adding to the theatre of it all, or saying something just because you think it is what someone wants to hear.  Trust me, it has been theatrical enough! 

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  64. woodstein

    woodstein


    I know that the Record, like all newspapers, has a circulation problem, but it now appears to be affecting Keith’s “brain”?

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/craig-whyte-profile-the-scots-billionaire-1076110
     
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/craig-whytes-case-anything-more-10574315

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  65. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    Re: this story, extracted from the DR, [with my highlighting] ;

    “Celtic birthday cake bigotry row cop demoted over Rangers ‘banter’ claim

    Another [police] source said: 
    “The person who made the complaint has suffered as well in career terms.
    “It is understandable that a complaint was made. But the feeling is that it could have been handled better.

    “[DCI] Ruth is a big Rangers fan and everyone in the force is aware of this…”
    ====================================================

    And allegedly, this officer is a long time RFC/TRFC season ticket holder.
    [Nothing wrong with that choice.]

    …but, could that be partly related to why the Police look the other way at every TRFC home game, [and away game], when the dodgy singing starts?

    Despite complaints to the Police, despite complaints to the SPFL & SFA by supporters…and despite TV broadcasters making very public apologies to viewers at home… 

    If they randomly arrested TRFC supporters, i.e. to simply enforce the law, then there could be a high [?] probability that serving officers would be arrested too – and the resultant adverse publicity, court appearances, and subsequent internal censure would be rather awkward? 

    And generally, Police forces everywhere don’t particularly appreciate arresting one of their own?

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  66. paddy malarkey

    paddy malarkey


    WOODSTEINNOVEMBER 21, 2017 at 15:14
    Definitely affecting his brain if he can write this and think it would go unnoticed . Everybody was all over it , weren’t they ?  (from the second link).

    At times, throughout the club’s administration, liquidation and Charles Green’s cut-price asset grab, it felt like we were watching a legalised heist.

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  67. StevieBC

    StevieBC


    The problems with the Ibrox roofs / rooves, have finally been resolved. 

    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/932831236032290816

    22

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  68. wottpi


    If the Whyte book is being/has been written, will the film script follow follow on shortly as well?
    I’m putting my money on Panto superstar Allan Stewart for the lead role. 10

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  69. Jingso.Jimsie

    Jingso.Jimsie


    Allan Stewart? Surely not!

    There is only one possible lookey-likey for the role of Craigy – James McPherson, better known as Mike Jardine in Taggart.

    The hair, the suit, the hand in the trouser pocket…

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  70. fan of football


    Funny that another BIG LIE denier has appeared lately IMO there must be something about to occur.
    At first I thought he was here because the new CLUB sevco 2012 was about to go into admin .
    Then I read that the old CLUB ragers 1872 debenture holders (remember them) had received £58 for their £1500 investment .
    So could it be that the old CLUB ragers 1872 are finally being put to rest and EB has been given the job of filling the peepils heads with nostalgia of yesteryear .
    Who knows ? but be sure of this ,he is here spouting guff for a reason and I’m sure he will do his level (5) best to let us know .

    Oh sorry I see he is not denying liquidation but is basing his whole pile of guff on an SFA transfer of membership stop laughing at the back

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  71. Billy Boyce


    Attachment

    John James in a blog earlier today reviews Craig Whyte’s forthcoming autobiography.  We only have JJ’s word that the book is in the offing, but he reproduces a chapter detailing how Whyte was detained by DCI Robertson at Heathrow after the Mexican authorities had refused him entry.  JJ states that the Motherwell Billionaire will reveal that a rival club approached him to throw a match in order to help RFC’s finances.  JJ has just made the attached Tweet.  I do hope that both JJ and Whyte are on solid ground – it would be an expensive exercise otherwise.  Perhaps Craig’s magic pen might just be his salvation?
    As far as I can see they must be talking about the end of season 2010/11 with three games remaining, namely Hearts, which RFC won 4-0, Dundee United 2-0 and Kilmarnock, 5-1.  In the Killie game RFC went ahead with three early goals and won the League by a solidary point – a close shave, but it opened the CL door for RFC. 

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  72. Cluster One

    Cluster One


    The problem at Ibrox is the soft loan money is required just to keep the lights on.This may have the been the case at the beginning but recent loans are to supplement a higher wage bill for a period of years until RFC improves its domestic turnover and essentially Europa income.RFC could shuffle along and break even on a domestic turnover of 30 million or so with a wage bill to suit but this would risk a drop in ST sales and a far less chance of Europa qualification.
    ————-
    At the time of preparation, the forecasts identified that the Group would require a minimum of £4.0m additionalfunding by the end of season 2017/18 in order to meet its liabilities as they fall due. The first tranche of funding isrequired in November 2017.Further funding amounting to £3.2m is forecast to be required during the 2018/19 season. However, the final amountis dependent on future football performance and European football participation amongst other factors
    ———-
    Looks like we are back in Ally territory again.If no european football more loans just to not even stand still

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  73. roddybhoy


    One thing I like about TSFM is that it listens to other peoples opinions and trys to have a reasoned argument if opinions differ….which is all very good and fair. But when someone comes on and it is evidently obvious that they are never gonna agree with stone cold hard facts in front of them, legal decisions etc Then it is time to agree that your never gonna agree and just stop engaging . EB you write very well ( better than me) but Your team died , your team cheated every club in Scotland , your team cheated every football fan in Scotland ( open your eyes they cheated you too ) , Your team cheated the country out of tax , your team cheated hard working businesses out of needed income .  They Cheated not just a little teeny bit but on a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE scale .Stop insulting Creditors , stop insulting the good and fair minded people of TSFM and stop taking liberties with the freedom of speech on this blog . Oh and before you come back with , holding club , engine room subsiduary or other fancy terms …………your club died and you cheated big time, we all know it, the football authorities know it …. and so do you

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  74. easyJambo


    Billy Boyce November 21, 2017 at 17:23
    As far as I can see they must be talking about the end of season 2010/11 with three games remaining, namely Hearts, which RFC won 4-0, Dundee United 2-0 and Kilmarnock, 5-1. In the Killie game RFC went ahead with three early goals and won the League by a solidary point – a close shave, but it opened the CL door for RFC.
    =======================
    If it was Romanov that CW was talking about, then there could be something in the decision not to play Zaliukas against RFC.
    https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/245762/Vladimir-Romanov-banned-Zaliukas-in-fear-he-would-be-red-carded

    Edit: ……. or he has taken the decision by VR out of context.

    Hearts fans do believe that there were several occurrences of “Vlad Flu” during his tenure.

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