Comment on Accountability via Transparency. by Finloch.

    easyJambo 17th May 2019 at 22:17


    There are a raft of shameful statements in Maxwell's response to Bonnyrigg

    “having checked internally, i can confirm that there is no appeal route available for clubs going through the application process. etc etc 


    Thanks for all this stuff EJ.


    The current SFA conclusions and attempts to "manage" the licensing process between the ex juniors coming into the pyramid has been badly handled from the start and is now quite embarrassing as well as being disgraceful.

    It is an insight into an organisation that is truly not fit for purpose.


    Mr Maxwell admitting that his organisations membership criteria actually changed along the way and in particular after the submissions were made (at great costs to the clubs) is quite bizarre and just plain wrong.

    At the last meeting we have been told Mr Petrie allegedly got upset when called out as a proprietor of mis truths.

    I'd say the floor of that particular meeting called it right.


    I note one particular para in the Bonnyrigg reply and wish them all the luck in the world should they choose to follow it because this all deserves more publicity and outfits like the SFA who benefit from public funding should be held to proper account.

    this is however not the end of the road for us, as despite the labyrinthine nature of the different articles and licensing documents, there is still one option open to us which we are seeking guidance on from parties outside of the club whether to pursue.  

    Go for it guys.

    Go for it for all the wee clubs and fans who get treated like second class citizens.

    Go for it knowing that Ian Maxwell would not have wanted Partick Thistle to be treated the way he is now treating these member clubs.

    Go for it knowing that Rod Petrie would not have wanted his childhood club Aberdeen, or his current club Hibs to be treated like this either.


    Ask why are they happy to do to others what they would not have accepted being done to their own clubs.



    Finloch Also Commented

    Accountability via Transparency.
    easyJambo 9th May 2019 at 22:24

    I've given some thought about how the SFA can resolve the Bonnyrigg (and others) situation.

    The SFA could invoke one of their own precedents to get round the licensing problem, by issuing  a "conditional membership".  I haven't seen a documented process of how to obtain such a membership though, unless it is only written on the back of a few brown envelopes.

    Apparently it was used once, a few years ago, to get round their own rules to permit a new club to join the SFL.  :whistle

    I'm sure it could be adapted for use and documented in a 4-way agreement between the SFA, the Lowland League, East of Scotland League and the club(s).



    Brilliant EJ.


    Scottish Football needs less rule changes at the 11th hour and more 'conditional memberships, and more  Secret 4 Way Agreements to clean up what might otherwise be interpreted as a scam to get £2000 out of prospective Lowland League clubs who have their own grounds and don't want to share with Stirling Albion, Falkirk, Alloa, Gala or whoever.


    Oh and a chief executive who can spell write or there will be compliants about his competence.

    Accountability via Transparency.
    Shyster Flywheel Shyster 9th May 2019 at 14:22

    Finloch 9th May 2019 at 13:50 

    No vacancy for aspirant clubs ever existed.

    Neither Alan Macrae of Cove nor Craig Graham of Spartans the respective and well connected chairmen or others were even given a sniff and may even have been advised not to rock any boats during the period of uncertainty.


    I recall at the time that Craig Graham was questioned by the Edinburgh Evening News about The Spartans applying for the SFL should a place become vacant with the promotion of Dundee to replace Rangers in the SPL.  I thought his response was that they would not apply.  I must have wrongly read between the lines that the SFA had influenced that decision. 




    No I think you are calling it just about right.

    The record shows no vacancy* ever existed for any club to "apply".

    A little bit of paper speculation occurred around the public demise of Rangers FC but the then unholy trinity of football authorities wanted to keep a Rangers Institution as high up the leagues as they could.

    And part of the plan was some well informed, well regarded and also well briefed chairmen not rocking any boats during the period of crisis and instability.

    Quite how the fast forwarding of Charles of Normandy's basket of assets, under the Sevco project, fitted in with the league and association constitutions has always been beyond me.



    But nobody important enough asked the questions then in the stampede to move on and since then Sevco has become Rangers and even organisations like the BBC are not allowed to mention the Sevco name or question the provenance of the truly wondrous transmogrification.


    Accountability via Transparency.
    Shyster Flywheel Shyster 9th May 2019 at 12:44

    Back in 2012 the SFA fixed it so that no other non-league club, especially The Spartans, would go up against Sevco for election to Div. 3 of the then SFL.  If The Spartans had put their name forward, the outcome of the vote of the 39 EFL clubs would have been interesting.      

    The curious thing is that in 2012 there was never a vacancy.

    I have since asked some of the directors of both the two obvious aspirant clubs, Spartans and Cove, and also existing SFL clubs and am certain there was never any opportunity or situation to "invite" clubs to apply in the manner of the previous invitations to apply that brought in clubs like Ross County, Inverness CT,  Elgin City FC, Peterhead Meadowbank Thistle aka Livingston and Annan.


    You might assume that the reason there never was a vacancy was because because The SFA had pre- agreed with all in their inner sanctum that after the intended pre-pack that Rangers had become would purge and cleanse their debts and continue unscathed.


    That didn't quite happen as we know and liquidation was the outcome of the vote by people and companies owed money.


    The 5 way agreement contained a way forward to keep Rangers at the top (and the commercial revenues in place).

     The subsequent rebukes by both the SPL clubs following fan rebellion at season ticket time and then by the SPL clubs (despite the outrageous threat of an "invitees – only" SPL2) was wonderful and we have people like the late Turnbull Hutton to thank.

    So the plan for a no change Rangers after a short long weekend pre-pack failed and in time the previous club became nothing more than a basket of the playing assets and a management team who didn't want to do walking away. 

    They morphed first into The Rangers (Charles Sevco Business) and they would soon replace the Rangers FC in liquidation and play in the 3rd division.

    Oh and they bought the history and all the silverware for £1 or something like that but its all a bit secretive.


    No vacancy for aspirant clubs ever existed.

    Neither Alan Macrae of Cove nor Craig Graham of Spartans the respective and well connected chairmen or others were even given a sniff and may even have been advised not to rock any boats during the period of uncertainty.


    7 years on.

    Did Longmuir and Doncaster and Regan follow the rules as laid out in their constitutions over the acceptance of Sevco into division 3 and the cup game at Brechin as an unseeded entity?


    I'd say they certainly did not but the baddies as John Clarke would call them held rank then and they and their successors are still holding rank today some 7 years on.


    So move along now.

    Nothing to see there and just be glad that Scottish football has the big Glasgow clubs and their 4 times plus a year derbies because that is what fuels the TV money top to bottom. 

    Recent Comments by Finloch

    Resolution 12 & The Broken Bond
    Thanks for the updates and insights EJ and John.

    As I write Radio Shortbread has been on in the background for around an hour or so and there has been no mention of anything that happened at the AGM and in particular nothing on Resolution 12.


    I'd say the Celtic Board had enough time (6 years or so) and got their ducks in a row.

    They will be feeling happy that they have not been mandated by their shareholders to do anything more than make ticket allocations for away games more transparent.

    And the radio silence will be seen as a job well done.

    Celtic are not going to do anything other than carry on with the business.

    They know they have many shareholders who feel the club has let them down but they also know some fans might sympathise and even grumble a little but when it comes down to it most fans simply want to beat their local rivals, in what is (to fans of other clubs) essentially a Glasgow District League.


    In the reports Lawwell, in the finest tradition of defensive politicians with maybe something to hide, said that " He has never seen the ‘five-way agreement,  and Celtic have never had any involvement".


    I've never seen the 5 way agreement either.

    Not the actual agreement.


    Celtic were never going to be in the room when the final draft (after many) was signed by Rangers, Sevco, the SFA and the other two league organisations, that is if it was ever actually signed.


    So saying Celtic had no involvement with "The 5 Way Agreement" could indeed be technically correct if we allow for the imprecision of our English language.


    But were Celtic involved in the discussions about the stark implications of the financial troubles at Rangers and the various commercial options as they cascaded out of control and ended up with the immediate and eleventh hour need for a new company and club?


    I don't think there is any doubt and if I was a shareholder I'd have thought that not to be involved in such momentous events at the time was a dereliction of fiduciary duty.


    And there is the conundrum that Mr Lawwell, Mr Desmond and the club faced and it was made worse or maybe simpler by the pressure of time.



    We're in the run in to an election and are drowning in politicians blind-sighting us all as they seek to control their particular agendas.


    That is what we saw happening at the Celtic AGM yesterday.






    Resolution 12 & The Broken Bond
    Thanks Tris for a timely, factual, well written and informative post.

    When you look at the garbage that got placed on to the front page of Murdoch’s London Times (Shortbread Edition) last week and compare it with the content of your posting you really have to scratch your head in bewilderment. 

    The 4th estate and the BBC all read this site so their really is no excuse for the long time dereliction of their duties around how the SFA and SPFL reacted to in the run up, during and the aftermath of the liquidation of Rangers FC.

    Good luck to the Resolutioners today from all of us.

    I don't think today will see an end to the need for Resolution 12 or even provide a clear roadmap.

    Some of the people involved in the early stuff like have moved on but the complicit chairmen from the inner sanctum 2011-2012 are still in post including Mr Lawwell and Mr Petrie who is now el Presidente.

    They know where all the bodies were /are buried but just want to move on.

    I spoke* to them both this morning as they breakfasted at Hotel du Vin. They were in good form, keen to speak to our forum ahead of the AGM and their message to us was business like 

    "Its business as normal in Scottish Football, nothing to see here and never was, move on….."



    Celtic’s Questions to Answer
    John Clarke 1826


    Thanks John 

    One of your best yet.

    Big Pink can we upgrade it to a new headline posting?

    Celtic’s Questions to Answer
    John Clark 11th November 2019 at 19:26


    paraniodbyexperience 11th November 2019 at 15:53

    '..why the Celtic board would be involved in this. '


    Why else but to help sustain the lie that there is still a marketable 'old firm' comprising two old clubs who made their money by cashing in on politico/religious sectarianism in spite of the fact that it is recognised in the 'recordal'  SevcoScotland/TRFC is NOT the Rangers of 1872 

    Greed has caused CFC plc to sell its soul without a blush , pretty much as the SFA/SPFL sold the soul of Scottish Football integrity to a miserable wretch.

    Brother Walfrid will be turning in his grave



    Half past eight on a dreich Tuesday morning and on reading through the site I see that John Clark has a list of thumbs downs that Steerpike would have been proud of.

    I can't disagree with anything that he has said.


    To Peter Lawwell and his board Celtic is a business first with an intrinsic heart and soul.


    To John and many other fans Celtic is an intrinsic heart and soul that lives within a business.


    We all know deep down that there is no way that Celtic would not have been involved in the Petrie managed SFA/SPL contingency plan for keeping Rangers and their revenues alive if their much heralded CVA failed, which it did.

    Lawwell was too important and too well connected and respected and his lack of support would have been a deal breaker.

    We also all know that deep down that the current Celtic business model benefits substantially from having Rangers alive and kicking in both their Glasgow home town but also polarising other  supporters outwith Glasgow to maintain the scale that has allowed both of the Glasgow giants to be bigger, richer and to dominate all other towns and clubs.

    Celtic and all the other clubs were complicit in everything that happened and while the likes of Inverness Caley and Ross County were just told what was going to happen and how to vote, for the best, Celtic and other key players were founding fathers of the plan despite the fact that they had lost out on a place in the Champions League qualifiers and the revenues that would have brought.

    Maybe they gambled on a longer term and a possible downside horizon with no big Glasgow rival/partner.

    From a business point of view, in retrospect, I can understand why what happened happened and that is also why Celtic have fought and are still fighting tooth and nail to stop Resolution 12 (which amusingly is also Resolution 12 again on the agenda for this year's agm)

    The Resolutioners have been politely blind sighted, delayed and constantly mis directed by the board of an organisation who made commercial decisions that at the time back in 2011 /2012 almost certainly road a coach and horses through their 2011/ 2012 fiduciary responsibilities to the business that is Celtic and to shareholders like John Clark and Auldheid.


    I wish the Resolutioners well and would advise Peter and Dermot that they are lucky to have fans like John, Auldheid and many many others.






    In Whose Interests
    Ex Ludo 11th October 2019 at 1



    From memory the teachers were on strike at various points in 1974/75 




    Those were my memory corrupting Tartan Special and Lutomer Riesling days.