About the The Scottish Football Monitor

The purpose of The Scottish Football Monitor is to pay homage to, and carry on the work of the groundbreaking RangersTaxCase blog (RTC). The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).

Scottish football, in the immediate wake of the Rangers FC liquidation, faces great challenges. The MSM have provided no sensible checks or balances on the actions of the authorities. The Scottish Football Monitor aims to provide those checks and balance.

The cosy relationship that has existed between the media and people at the top of Scottish Football has dissuaded those who may otherwise be moved to blow the whistle on wrongdoing. The Scottish Football Monitor aims, through time, and by winning the trust of ordinary fans, to fill a gap in the football media in Scotland that has been up to now filled only by RTC.

The Rangers FC saga, its consequences, and consequences of the accompanying stream of untruths and misdirection fed to us by the MSM is far from over. RTC was successful in getting the previously buried truth of the Rangers tax case into the mainstream despite a hostile MSM reaction. The Scottish Football Monitor hopes to use the skills and expertise of those in our community to a cast light on matters that those in authority would have concealed, or at least present alternative arguments to those being presented as having none.

Scottish Football Monitor asks contributors to remember only a few things;

1. The site is not the domain of any one club and is open to fans of all clubs.

2. Absolutely no discussion with regard to religion should take place.

3. Posters should refrain from using foul or abusive language.

Welcome to The Scottish Football Monitor

Trisidium

Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,167 Comments
  1. IniquitousIV


    ‘uneat’ = ‘unseat’ Doh!

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  2. Dark Blue


    John Clarke says at 16.25

    Thats what i was trying to say. Thank you

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  3. jw hardin


    smartie1947 says:
    August 9, 2012 at 16:00

    …”The driving force behind the campaign/crusade to bring this to the public’s attention seemed to be a concern called The Bureau of Investigative Journalism.”
    ————————————-
    A terrific lead Smartie…and I identify with your frustration.
    Mailed them myself. Hopefully a volume of mails would prompt them to, at least, make initial requires.

    View Comment
  4. Charlie Brown


    jocky bhoy says:
    August 9, 2012 at 16:59

    Jocky I don’t personally think there is anything fundamentally wrong or disagreeable with your stance as you enumerated, why biggest gripe about it is that it doesn’t solve anything.
    We had a system which probably was far from perfect, probably corruptable, but look at it’s consequences – it enabled a more levelling effect than we have now. Between 25% and 30% of titles went to clubs outside of Glasgow. Sure Celtic & Rangers remained the dominant clubs and indeed Celtic enjoyed their most dominant and glorius era under the subsidising-the-diddy-teams-system.
    How would your changes (which actually propose to change very little) improve things? How would enable say Aberdeen or Hearts to narrow the gap and perhaps win the odd title under a system that would maintain the massive financial disparities that have been created?

    If the rich people in the big house leave the peasants to starve then eventually the rich too will suffer ….. unless of course the rich move to a new world and leave the wasteland behind them?

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  5. Carl31


    Anecdote… (bear with me – its a bit long winded to get to the point)
    I once played in a bowling tournament where the semi-finalist (I was no longer involved at this stage) complained that the opponent’s bowls were not properly stamped.
    The Umpire’s decision (which was clearly stated in the rules as being final) was that they were indeed not properly stamped, but no action would be taken and the tournament would continue as before.
    Asked about his reasons he had a number within an explanation.
    Bowls’ stamps, amongst other things, ensure that no-one is playing with loaded bowls – extra swing or straightness.
    This means that an opponent can be sure each bowl will run as consistent as the others and sporting strategy can be applied accordingly (length of jack, blocking shots, etc.).
    The umpire used local knowledge – he knew the club member and knew he had played with the same consistent bowls for a number of years.
    He knew the bowls improper stamp was due to the member having dropped one on a stone which had damaged the bowl.
    The same bowls had been used through the tourney up to semi and it was not practical to undo a range of games results, and recount the round robin points/replay the subsequent knockout games.
    If the bowls had been used until ‘now’, they can be used to finish the tourney.
    After the tourney, the umpire noted to the organisers that he had asked the member to ensure his bowls are properly stamped for future tourneys.
    I initially thought it quite a breathtaking decision and totally wrong, because a rule is a rule and if your in a tournament under SBA rules your bowls must be properly stamped – but on reflection on his explanations I eventually agreed that he was just about right.
    Thanks to those of you who are still with me.
    The game was essentially played fair. Any disqualification would have been on a technicality. Justice was done.
    I learned that the umpire placed the spirit of the game above any particular written rule.
    The game is bigger than any issues around which rule should be verbatim applied here or there.

    The point…
    This brings me to the SDM position and the general Rangers position. There is no recognition that the game of football is bigger – the game is paramount.
    When will there be some acceptance that for the last decade at least, they have not been playing fair? They will reform, accept this and that, and carry on regardless.
    They may well attempt to wheedle around with this or that, contending that they dont contravene the letter of the SPL law, or rule, and maybe that retrospective action isnt specified in this regard or other.
    But its clear that an unfair advantage was gained by Rangers under SDM. ‘no cheating in a sporting regard’. Eh??? How does SDM work that out? An unfair advantage was clearly in play.
    They have now been caught. When will they simply issue some form of acknowledgement of this? They didnt play the game fair and theyve been busted.
    Some form of statement or issuance from the current club or previous administration (in some form) would go a long way to repairing the damage done to the game.

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  6. slimshady61


    Ranchofranco says:
    August 9, 2012 at 08:15
    ————————
    Ranchofranco, good salient/salivating points but the real question is will the little dick (wilson) be able to fill Jabba’s jockstrap?

    My fear is it will never stand up in the court of public opinion

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  7. john clarke


    Essex beancounter says:
    August 9, 2012 at 09:52

    ‘.Tomorrow is our wedding anniversary …’

    ———-
    May it be as significant and joyful to you and the Mrs as the wedding day itself was.

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  8. jammy dodger


    Carl31 says:
    August 9, 2012 at 17:21
    “They have now been caught. When will they simply issue some form of acknowledgement of this? They didnt play the game fair and theyve been busted.”

    The answer to your question is never. No matter what evidence is produced, they will never, ever, admit to doing anything wrong. They will point the finger everywhere else, they will look for “taigs” behind any move against them, they will construct the most laughable arguments as to why it wasn’t their fault, but they will never, ever admit anything, and they most certainly will never say sorry. Please don’t hold your breath for an apology, because that will certainly prove fatal. It is the nature of the beast, that’s how they are and how they think. They see absolutely nothing wrong with it. In fact they pity and despise anyone who would even think to say sorry when caught red handed. It is that mentality that is the curse of modern Scotland (OK, west of Scotland).

    Nice story about the bools by the way. A bit of a sickener for any Spartans fan reading, though.

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  9. Auldheid


    Probably linked to earlier

    http://t.co/QOwUsMk6

    It is a detailed look by the St J lad who did the tv analysis at Sevco’s business case based on the higher wages they seem to be offering.

    The interesting thing is that if you use the wage figure of £2658 in this exploration to the wage calculator already linked to then the annual loss is pretty similar in the £2.3m bracket This suggests that there is something to question the SFA on as to how they passed a business case that shows a club running at a loss in the first couple of years.

    One would assume SFA got some assurances on funding from a source that looked solid and with good reason to be involved in getting bums on seats at Ibrox aka Ticketus.

    The point here is that neither business cases made provision for a Ticketus clawback (although it is easy to add to the wage calculator) but if they had the wage would have to come down or the debt would rise further.

    It would be ironic indeed if the very thing that saw CW undone (using the fans money to pay off the debt) was a device continuing to be used unknown to the Sevco support as it would mean less of what they pay at the gate to watch would find its way on to the field of play. I mean if you are going to launch a share issue you would reveal to potential purchasers exactly what they were buying into would you not? Who owns the stadium and if they are taking a bite of the proceeds, the kind of information that would inform purchasers before they buy.

    What CG will be selling potential share buyers is a return to the myth of a strong Rangers with no debt. The figures suggest this is a myth in comparison with their past, the kind of wages they can look forward to offering suggest it will be ordinary shares in an ordinary team that should be put on offer.

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  10. essexbeancounter


    john clarke says:
    August 9, 2012 at 17:47
    3 0 i Rate This

    Essex beancounter says:
    August 9, 2012 at 09:52

    ‘.Tomorrow is our wedding anniversary …’

    ———-
    May it be as significant and joyful to you and the Mrs as the wedding day itself was.

    ==========================================================================

    JC…thank you indeed for such a touching sentiment.

    My friend, at my very sedate stag night said with the utmost wisdom :” it is not the getting married that is difficult…it is the being and staying married that is difficult.”

    OT but thank you.

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  11. goosy


    longtimelurker says:

    August 8, 2012 at 23:22

    There was an obvious scam going on mate cause they insisted on almost every player having and EBT.

    The EBT was just a front or a name for a slush fund and that fund was used for years and years.

    The question you have to ask is what was the money being used for?

    There were players I’ve never even heard of getting 100s of thousands of pounds, some of those players never even kicked a ball for them.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Spot on
    And if Hector decides to chase any of these players for the money that passed through their account they will be the first to deny it
    That would split the criminal case wide open and force the Trustees to disclose who the money actually went to and who authorised it
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Its most unlikely slush fund money was paid directly. Not if it was intended as a backhander
    More than likely a Bank or a string of shell cos is involved somewhere along the line
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Mmmm…….
    Shell cos ?
    who do we know thats good at opening and folding shell cos?
    Banks ? Wasnt David Grier Client Relations Mgr for RBS during some of the EBT era?
    ……
    Mmmm…….
    A really lateral thought
    Was the purchase of RFC for £1 by CW actually the return of a favour owed by our Hero to SDM?
    Could SDM have been working closely with CW for years to enable slush money to flow through a myriad of cos before ending up in someones bank account?

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  12. essexbeancounter


    mick says:
    August 9, 2012 at 17:48
    3 0 i
    Rate This

    essex bean counter have a nice 1 m8 from every1 in scotland

    ==================================================================

    Mick…thank you to all…and I am hoping for many more happy years of this superb blog, and married life of course!

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  13. Danish Pastry


    Blimey, I’m reading through a lot of dross.

    I’ve counted 17 posts from a single poster on the past two pages alone and still don’t know what the point was.

    Those of us with nothing substantial to contribute (I count myself as one) should try not to clutter the blog with our nuggets of wisdom. The strength of this blog is in its focus on fact 😉

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  14. Ranchofranco


    Slim,
    Much like his fellow travellers in the MSM he has a permanently raging priapism due to prolonged stimulation from and excessive exposure to the disreputable antics of the Govan based bordello,it’s adherence to the Blaxendale-Walker school of risqué fiscal indecency. 🙂

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  15. taxman cometh


    Auldheid and there’s the rub

    How do you convince the sevco zombies to buy shares when you have been peddling the myth that you can not own shares in a football club just a holding company, 26,000 RFC (IA) shareholders may think differently.

    C’mon buy the shares and if it all goes breests up we will do the switcheroo again and you can buy shares again

    I mean how can chuckie do that?

    I remember now

    He is dealing with THE most gullible Fwits that god ever put into creation.

    Then he has to find someone to underwrite the whole thing.

    Without a successful share issue it is impossible to see how he can keep going

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  16. longtimelurker


    Interesting legal point of view re RTC’s latest blog and the f@nny Graham.

    Looks like yer man Graham has put his foot right in it 🙂

    From KDS

    (ps,any of the legal dept want to comment on this?)

    http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11647009&t=8717433

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  17. longtimelurker


    Ranchofranco says:
    August 9, 2012 at 18:43
    1 0 Rate This
    Slim,
    Much like his fellow travellers in the MSM he has a permanently raging priapism due to prolonged stimulation from and excessive exposure to the disreputable antics of the Govan based bordello,it’s adherence to the Blaxendale-Walker school of risqué fiscal indecency. .

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    If you’ve not been published mate, why not?

    Thanks for the above, a TU isn’t sufficient IMO.

    View Comment
  18. dunloytim


    Iki@16-28
    I think regan should be asked if Rosemary’s baby win the scottish cup will they get a place in Europe.This should answer whether they are a new club or not even for the cheerleader’s in the msm.New clubs don’t get to play in Europe for at least 3 year’s it’s that simple Stuart

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  19. Eastern ex-pat


    For those who haven’t seen the BRTH post at 2pm, you must read it.

    It was held in moderation but is now there, despite not being there earlier. I’m confused ….

    A brilliant read.

    [Edit]
    I’ve moved it to the bottom of the list at 1900.
    SFM

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  20. broganrogantrevinoandhogan


    Good Afternoon,

    It was the poet Johnne Donne who came away with the phrase ” No Man is an Island”. Interestingly the lines were not originally intended to be a poem, but were written by Donne in his ” Meditations” and were intended as prose rather than poetry.

    Fittingly, they are taken from ” Devotions on an Emergent occasion”

    Donne was an interesting character. He was borne a Roman Catholic but later became an Anglican Priest and a Doctor of Divinity, became the Dean of St Paul’s Cathedral and was a Royal Chaplain. He was also a qualified Barrister having studied at Thavies Inns Legal School and later he was the Reader of Divinity at Lincoln’s Inn. He was the Member of Parliament for Brackley from 1602 onwards for a number of years. He had been a soldier, fighting with Walter Raleigh and the Earl of Essex at Cadiz, and before settling down to this well recorded life of divinty and respectability he managed to blow his considerable inheritance on wine women and travel.

    However it was his marriage to Anne More in 1601 which earned him a stay in Prison ( along with the man who performed the marriage and the chief witness ) as the marriage went ahead without the Bride’s father’s permission– and he just happened to be the Lieutenant of the Tower of London! Using his Legal skills, Donne eventually proved the validity of his marriage and secured his release whereupon he wrote to his wife: ” John Donne: Anne Done, Un-Done” as although he was released the marriage cost him his career!

    As a result, Donne had to scrape a rather meagre living as a lawyer– his parliamentary duties being unpaid– and it was not until he reconciled with his father in law in 1609 that he received his wife’s dowry and so improved his financial situation. He , his wife and family of 10 children, had a reasonably miserable existence, and it was the patronage of his writing and his clerical appointments that gave the Donne family a degree of comfort.

    Of course there are many people who train as lawyers– be it as Brristers or Advocates as they are known in Scotland– or alternatively as solicitors. Advocates tend to be thought of as far grander than solicitors in many respects. There have been many Barristers or Advocates who have wandered into politics and reached the very top of the political tree, however there has only ever been one solictor to become Prime Minister– and that was David Lloyd George.

    Solicitors are much more men ( or women ) of business than their Advocate counterparts. They are the business merchants of the legal profession. Perhaps the solicitor is that branch of the profession which would be regarded as having Sharp Elbows when it comes to commercial matters. John Donne does not strike as the kind of mediatative man who would be suited to the role of a “man of business”!

    So, it is against this background that one stops to consider the recent report by Messrs Harper McLeod Solicitors on behalf of the SPL into the question of dual contracts. Harper Mcleod are very well versed in both sports law and indeed in civil and commercial litigation. To be blunt, they will know a contract- or indeed two — when they see them– and they will be sharp about it.

    I therefore wonder what they thought of the comments from Sir David Murray the other day? His assertion that there was no deception, that the EBT’s were all above board and legal, that the loan agreements contained specific repayment dates, interest provisions and so on. I wonder if that accords with their initial findings?

    As we know, all the evidence will be considered by an independent commission,and a quick check of the SPL rules shows that any such Commission has very wide powers of enquiry with the ability to ask for all sorts of records and documents, and to cite just about anyone they chose!

    I wonder, if in enquiring into this situation, the Independent Commision will consider requesting the presence of any of the players’agents so that they can get their evidence as to what was and what was not agreed. We have already heard Billy Dodds and indeed Alec McLeish spout forth that all contactual matters were dealt with by their “Agents”.

    Well, Agents have to be Licensed with the SFA– and yes, yet again it is our old SFA friends who have the licensing function to oversee proper conduct on the part of agents. What will the SFA have to say if properly Licensed and regulated agents embroiled their clients in what turns out to be an illegal tax avoidance scheme?

    There are many agents, but one whose point of view will be of great interest to anyone who follows this saga will be Blair Morgan. Like Lloyd George, Blair Morgan is a qualified solicitor who has acted for many of the players in this saga. He has represented Alec McLeish, Graham Souness, Walter Smith, Neill McCann, Craig Moore, Gavin Rae and many more. He has been in partnership in the past with Trevor Stephen and has employed former players like Craig Moore and Derek Whyte as consultants.

    Mr Morgan was previously a Director of Dunfermiline FC and has himself sat on SFA committees. He is very well versed on sports matters and has gained a very high reputation in the market place– acting for clubs such as Celtic, and many players beyond Scotland.

    Yesterday– RTC stated in a tweet that Blair Morgan had in fact written on behalf of Alec Mcleish asking whether or not ineterst was due on an overdue EBT payment– thus highlighting the fact that these payments were in fact contractual contrary to the musings of Sir David Murray. I also suspect that if Mr Morgan was asked by his clients to draw up letters of indemnity in favour of his clients in respect of the EBT tax position and the financial obligations on the part of Rangers PLC, then he will have done so in the most proper legal fashion and will all his professionalism and experience! As I recall, at least one of the letters of indemnity starts with the words— ” On behalf of the Board of Directors of Rangers PLC…..”.

    Below are a number of articles and interviews with Blair Morgan which show that he conducts all of his business on behalf of his clients with his solicitors hat on at all times and that he has in the past had cause to have discussions with Sir David Murray on matters of business.He has represented many clients and appears at times to have crossed swords with other agents who are not qualified in the law.

    Perhaps the enquiry should simply put Sir David Murray’s most recent statements to Blair Morgan and ask him for his comments about his clients being liable to repay loans on a given date, and the reasoning behind any letters of indemnity that he was asked to draw up in connection with EBT payments. I also wonder what he was told would be– or should be– registered with the football authorities by Rangers PLC.

    Obviously, Mr Morgan would not necessarily be the only legally qualified agent from whom any of those mentioned in the EBT scandal may have taken advice, however he is one of those who is in a unique position to shed a considerable amount of light on exactly what was agreed between whom and why……… always presuming that he acted on behalf of the clients named in connections with their contracts with Rangers PLC.

    From the information available, Sir Dvid Murray may well have a very different interpretation of the paperwork concerned from legal chaps like Blair Morgan who will have professionally advised on such paperwork in the best interests of his clients. I would seriously doubt that such an experienced solicitor in this field would advise his clients to enter into any type of long term spurious loan agreement with a third party as part of any agreement between his client and Rangers PLC.

    If there are a number of other legally qualified or Licensed agents who all say the same thing, then Sir David may well find himself isolated– even from the likes of Walter Smith and Alec McLeish.

    Then again– Sir Dvid can take refuge in the words of John Donne– who stressed that no man is an island– although Donne was making the point that the actions and behaviour of each individual will have consequences for us all further down the line… and perhaps his final words will not be the most welcome right enough!

    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself.
    Each is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less.
    As well as if a promontory were.
    As well as if a manor of thine own
    Or of thine friend’s were.
    Each man’s death diminishes me,
    For I am involved in mankind.
    Therefore, send not to know
    For whom the bell tolls,
    It tolls for thee.

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Blair+Morgan's+Diary%3B+TOP+agent+Blair+Morgan+may+be+a+fanatical…-a074329327

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Football%3A+Wee+Tam+faces+secret+agent+rap.-a060226605

    http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/44-10/1001068.aspx

    http://www.dunfermlinepress.com/articles/2/22064?mode=print

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  21. nowoldandgrumpy


    I thought David Stoker was one of the people who wanted sporting integrity.

    Seems like money talks more now.

    David Stoker ‏@davidstoker_lfc
    I’m thinking of phoning the Falkirk board for Friday’s Euromillions numbers.

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  22. Blindsummit


    Tic 6709 says:

    August 9, 2012 at 14:41

    I think focusing on geography is a nonsense,people from here there and everywhere should support the team nearest to you,bollocks. People have had to move location for many reasons,should they stop supporting the team they have followed their whole life just because there is another team closer to their new home?.I dont think so. I am all for going to a new ground when you cant get to your own,but never just because it’s the closest to you
    ______________________________________________________________
    My apologies Tic but I must respectfully disagree with your thesis.
    Every week, busloads of fans leave towns like Elgin, Arbroath, Kirkcaldy etc to see Rangers and Celtic, in numbers that dwarf those who support the local teams in those towns. This is an almost uniquely Scottish phenomenon and has been going on for decades. I do not believe that all these people once lived in certain parts of Glasgow. I’m sure those of us who follow diddy teams can recount endless lists of people we were brought up amongst who made a deliberate decision to support Rangers or Celtic rather than their local team. Some due to unfortunately religious adherence, others as those teams always win, and it’s very self affirming to attach yourself to a winning team. This has accelerated since the mid-80s, killing attendances for all non Rangers and Celtic teams.
    I do not believe that this is as nearly a widespread phenomenon in other countries, where people mostly support their local teams in whatever sport.
    Rangers particularly, since the Murray days have gone all out to destroy the fan base of other teams as they saw that as their path to total victory.

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  23. Timalloy


    Can I ask one of our statiticians on here to help with the coefficient this year of both Celtic and Scotland. I am aware that year 07/08 drops off Celtic coefficient in a five year cycle, and I know we need a really good euro run in 2012/2013 to help make this up. But how is coefficient worked out, how many points for winning, for reaching next stage etc..Has club formerly known as Rangers coefficient points been expunged from Scottish total. If possible looking ahead how well must all Scottish teams do to make up ex clubs points and gain us our two champions league places back again. Thanks in advance for any explanations.

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  24. slimshady61


    Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
    August 9, 2012 at 19:00
    ———————–
    It was the poet Johnne Donne who came away with the phrase ” No Man is an Island”
    ———————–

    Yes but John Dunne may never have written that had he met Corsica here or on the RTC blog

    View Comment
  25. longtimelurker


    Timalloy says:
    August 9, 2012 at 19:24
    1 0 Rate This
    Can I ask one of our statiticians

    _____________________________________________________________

    Someone posted this the other day mate (apologies can’t recall who now) it was an excellent post and very well set out.

    Think it might have been posted at the weekend or maybe Friday.

    View Comment
  26. Stifflers Mom


    Ranchfranco I take your point @08:15

    I have no issue nor axe to grind with any journalist preferring one team to another – infact let them get it off their chest a la Graeme Spiers. By doing so, it would erradicate the natural bias that seeps through the column inches they churn out time and again.

    However, with respect to the garb that Wilson (of The Herald) continues to spew, I find it disappointing that it continues to make it’s way to the print room and can only hope that those ‘photographs’ he has of the sports editor are discovered and destroyed as early as possible.

    His recent report on sevco v East Fife gushed of his love of Sally and Co and how their resolve would overcome the ‘setbacks the summer had brought them’. It’s time this guy realised they brought the ‘setbacks’ on themselves, aided and abetted by a SMM, who happily ignored the goings on down Govan way and wilfully misled their entire readership whilst they worshipped at the feet of SDM.

    This is the same guy that went ‘on the record’ on live television stating he had received ‘intelligence’ on Sevco that they would be voted back into the SPL.

    As I say, I have no issue what colour his scarf nor which ground he draws his inspiration, but for Pete’s sake man, show your colours and be done! Same applies to the rest of them, then we can cut to the chase and perhaps welcome him and his cronies to the debate….on an even playing field.

    View Comment
  27. Philip José Farmer


    Chris says:
    August 9, 2012 at 15:40

    Gate sharing is considered a bad idea by some, as it ‘props up’ poor clubs.
    OK, when all the ‘poor’ clubs go bust, who forms the league for the four
    or five (?) ‘rich’ clubs to play in?

    ================================

    If they go bust it will be because they have spent money they didn’t have.

    They could stop doing that.

    Some clubs actually do try to live within their means. They also accept that if it means they cannot get promoted, or win a trophy then so be it.

    With regard no competition. As I recall there were three senior tournaments in Scotland last year. Celtic won one, Hearts won one, Kilmarnock won one.

    View Comment
  28. slimshady61


    There has been quite a lot of discussion on here today about away supporters and their treatment.

    Some points arise from this.

    From the point of view of my own club, I do think the away supporters could get a better part of Celtic Park to occupy, but then historically the away supporters have ended up where they are because of the success and full houses of the Martin O’Neill era.

    On the other hand we do make a point of welcoming them positively with an introduction from the Polish Turnstile himself, Tony Hamilton and applause from the fans, even more so this season now that our eyes have been opened and our previously held view (RFC fans without a bus fare) exposed as erroneous.

    The more relevant point is the insidious role played by the police in Scottish football and this needs to be eroded. They control how many fans are given tickets for away games, including Celtic away games, and they dictate where the fans go.

    Thus though I would like to take my son to Pittodrie, Easter Road etc., I can never get a ticket for those grounds and then we watch the game on Sky or ESPN and see large gaps in the home stands. Everyone loses – the home club loses revenue, I lose the chance to enthuse my son about the Scottish game and expose him to the thrill of visiting opposing grounds, the TV company loses exposure and the viewer loses by seeing a less full ground with consequently lesser atmosphere.

    A few years ago, the SFA finally scrapped the nonsense about ticketing at Hampden and now have a policy that the smaller club in a Hampden match get 12,000 tickets. If they sell them , they get more. If they don’t, the rest go to Celtic (historically to Rangers too….that seems a long time ago).

    The tickets are sold geographically, i.e. from the middle of the South Stand in a clockwise direction, so that when the smaller club’s demand is exhausted, the SFA can simply draw a line for segregation purposes and sell the remainder to Celtic.

    Why can that not be implemented for every Scottish ground so that when Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee etc. have sold all of the home tickets they can, the rest are give over to the away team?

    Answer – the police.

    The sooner the clubs take back control of their grounds and maximise the sale of tickets the better!

    View Comment
  29. Philip José Farmer


    jocky bhoy says:
    August 9, 2012 at 16:59

    I’m happy to debate revenue sharing til the cows come hme (done it before) and will do so again. For the record my stance is:

    >> TV money should be shared more evenly
    >> European money should stay with the club that won it
    >> Gate money for league games should stay with the home team (though I am intrigued by the season ticket suggestion) – I pay to support my team, not prop up others.
    >> No problem with sharing money from cup games – the “luck of the home draw” should not penalise away teams financially

    ===============================

    Pretty much my position. Happy to split joint media income across the board, equal split to all clubs.

    I would also ask a general question. Is there any league in Europe where it is done substantially differently with regard sharing gates.

    View Comment
  30. jonnyod


    I have just listened to SSB and witnessed Graham Speirs allowing a 2012 fc supporter to spout utter nonsense about ragers being blackmailed by the SFA into accepting a transfer ban .Now it is clear to me that Speirs is more than capable to have put the guy right regards this ,yet he chose not to and instead allowed himself to be embarrassed into agreeing with a caller who he must have known to be wrong .
    Now the question is WHY? ,
    Why did he allow himself to be so publicly embarrassed instead of putting the guy right .
    IMO this is exactly why this blog is needed ,the MSM are still trying to ill inform to suit their own agenda
    Utter disgrace

    View Comment
  31. nostarsandbarred


    Philip José Farmer says:
    August 9, 2012 at 19:47
    0 0 Rate This
    jocky bhoy says:
    August 9, 2012 at 16:59

    I’m happy to debate revenue sharing til the cows come hme (done it before) and will do so again. For the record my stance is:

    >> TV money should be shared more evenly
    >> European money should stay with the club that won it
    >> Gate money for league games should stay with the home team (though I am intrigued by the season ticket suggestion) – I pay to support my team, not prop up others.
    >> No problem with sharing money from cup games – the “luck of the home draw” should not penalise away teams financially

    ===============================

    Pretty much my position. Happy to split joint media income across the board, equal split to all clubs.

    I would also ask a general question. Is there any league in Europe where it is done substantially differently with regard sharing gates.

    ================================

    Agreed with all the above – one point – re the League game money – I’d be happy to see some sharing of revenue, if the away club managed to provide enough fans to justify it – how about some form of “weighted” sharing based on the number of away fans attending – this would encourage clubs to provide subsidized traveling costs for their fans, and also provide an incentive to have a better atmosphere generated at games. There is also an added benefit to the home club of additional revenue via catering, for example. Just a thought.

    View Comment
  32. john clarke


    SFM
    Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
    August 9, 2012 at 19:00

    “…It was the poet Johnne Donne who came away with the phrase ” No Man is an Island”..”
    ————
    Another superb piece! And hugely informative. thank you. BRTH.

    View Comment
  33. Brenda


    jonny @ 20:13pm

    Agree wholeheartedly …… And speirs if you are tuning in here tonight? Away and grow a backbone and tell the truth 🙂

    View Comment
  34. Scotland Behave

    Scotland Behave


    Blindsummit says:
    August 9, 2012 at 19:19
    7 0 i Rate This

    Tic 6709 says:

    August 9, 2012 at 14:41

    I think focusing on geography is a nonsense,people from here there and everywhere should support the team nearest to you,bollocks. People have had to move location for many reasons,should they stop supporting the team they have followed their whole life just because there is another team closer to their new home?.I dont think so. I am all for going to a new ground when you cant get to your own,but never just because it’s the closest to you
    ______________________________________________________________
    My apologies Tic but I must respectfully disagree with your thesis.
    Every week, busloads of fans leave towns like Elgin, Arbroath, Kirkcaldy etc to see Rangers and Celtic, in numbers that dwarf those who support the local teams in those towns. This is an almost uniquely Scottish phenomenon and has been going on for decades. I do not believe that all these people once lived in certain parts of Glasgow. I’m sure those of us who follow diddy teams can recount endless lists of people we were brought up amongst who made a deliberate decision to support Rangers or Celtic rather than their local team. Some due to unfortunately religious adherence, others as those teams always win, and it’s very self affirming to attach yourself to a winning team. This has accelerated since the mid-80s, killing attendances for all non Rangers and Celtic teams.
    I do not believe that this is as nearly a widespread phenomenon in other countries, where people mostly support their local teams in whatever sport.
    Rangers particularly, since the Murray days have gone all out to destroy the fan base of other teams as they saw that as their path to total victory.
    ==========================================

    Totally agree. I’m from the North East and growing up in the 60’s and 70’s I was one of about 5 or 6 in my class who supported the local team Aberdeen, the rest, which was the majority supported Celtic or Rangers. That is, of course until the Fergie revolution arrived in the 80’s, then it all changed and you couldn’t even get a ticket for any match at Pittodrie.

    Things as you all know changed again in the late 80’s with Souness and money bags etc.

    Recently, I went to the local sports shop in Elgin to try and buy an Aberdeen shirt for my nephew in Australia. They only sold Celtic, Rangers, Chelsea, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd and list goes on and on. Not one local football team shirt was for sale. No Aberdeen, No Inverness, not even Elgin City which is the local side who are in the SFL3.

    It is all about marketing the Scottish game as well, yes I’m looking at you Doncaster and Regan to get off you backsides and start marketing and promoting this game in Scotland and beyond. To allow even investment and even distribution of the TV monies and assist with youth developement.

    View Comment
  35. jonnyod


    Brenda says:
    August 9, 2012 at 20:30
    Brenda that is the worry ,IMO Speirs knew the truth and could have easily put the caller right ,instead he chose not to .
    A more blatant an example of MSM agenda you will be hard pushed to find IMO .
    Yet this goes on day after day ,it’s no wonder that 2012 fc fans constantly regurgitate the mantra of we have been punished enough ,The MSM are drumming it into them constantly ,then re affirming their paranoia on shows like this .

    View Comment
  36. tic6709


    Blind Summit @19.19pm. No problem with a disagreement,that’s why we are here after all.
    I have total respect for your post,and you have pointed out some serious issues.
    My post was all about choice, and so is your reply. We are a very small country,so it is not too difficult to drag your prejudicies with you(not you )I think if the distances involved were greater then you might get people to stay closer to home. But for some of the reasons you have pointed out I will not be holding my breath.Anyway some of the smaller teams should be getting some extra fans soon,but i dont know if they are going to be very pleased.
    Be careful what you wish for.
    I was not saying that everyone is from Glasgow,I’m from North Ayrshire and now live on a small Island on the West Coast,so I fit your profile,but that is my choice.
    It’s a conundrum all right.

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  37. Charlie Brown


    Philip,

    What relevance does how other leagues organise their finances have on the best way forward for Scottish League Football?
    We have the least competitive league with the fewest winners in the last quarter century (ie 2 winners in 25 years) of ANY league in Europe. Even the smallest diddy league countries have less monopolistic domination than the SPL has suffered.
    Of course all leagues tend to be dominated by a handful of the biggest clubs but there is still more variation and occassional surprise winners than we have had or look like having unless we make radical and drastic changes to the set up.
    Celtic & Rangers fans are highly unlikely to agree but something needs to be done to deliberately curb the domination of the Glasgow clubs and give the other clubs a chance at the title.
    If you look at a graph of attendances for Scottish football all the clubs follow the same trends in rising / falling attendances until the 1990’s when crowds in Glasgow shoot up and everybody else decreases.or flatlines. The gulf has never been wider.

    View Comment
  38. parttimearab


    Looking in today’s Dundee Courier it would appear that football Armageddon is still a little off…

    “almost 3000 supporters travelled from the city of discovery to Kilmarnock …”
    and
    “a capacity 14200 crowd in tannadice in 11 days time, a remarkable attendance for a Sunday lunchtime fixture being broadcast live on TV…”
    also
    “…good news for the tangerines when their season ticket tally reached..4775, comfortably exceeding the number sold at the same time last year”

    Looks as though the MSM will get a really bad crick in their collective necks looking out for the football apocalypse.

    View Comment
  39. IniquitousIV


    TimAlloy @ 19:24
    This is from CQN today

    As we draw breath and await our fate in the draw on Friday for Q3 of Champions League (CL), I was browsing the excellent Bert Kassies site on possible opponents etc.
    The top 12 countries merit 22 automatic places in group stages. I note that Scotland is ranked at 15 which is the last position which merits 2 places in CL Q3, which means we have 2 qualifying rounds to reach the group stages.
    Next season it looks as though Scotland will drop down to 18, thus only 1 CL place and requiring the champions (i.e. CFC) to enter at Q2. This round commences tonight, meaning we will start our competitive season early next year (mid July). The following year we also lose the ‘Manchester effect’ from our ex-rivals, so it doesn’t look much better (purely from a stats perspective obviously!)
    As Scotland’s coefficient is based on 5 years of stats and our annual contribution is calculated on total points (wins, draws, bonuses etc) divided by number of teams qualifying, we have suffered from inclusion and early exits of (no disrespect) the likes of Gretna, Queen of the South etc.
    Also the schadenfreude of seeing ‘them’ being humiliated with an early exit was always tempered (slightly) with the knock on effect of reducing coefficients, thus making qualifying and progressing a harder task. As top players are also attracted by CL group qualification, it also makes recruiting talent more difficult.
    In addition, with Celtic’s current coefficient of 32.728, if group stage qualification goes by the stats, we will be in Pot 4, ranked 27 out of the 32 qualifiers. Best case we could draw Porto, Copenhagen and Dynamo Kiev. Worst case it could be Barcelona, Man City and Juventus !
    Gone are the heady days post Seville when we were ranked in Europe’s top 25 2005/2007. We are now ranked 63, thus harder draws in qualifying and group draws. Accordingly I think despite continuing fiscal prudence, we may have to speculate to accumulate in order to make a mark in Europe by increasing our status through results.
    Winning the SPL for the next few years, despite any complacency, should be a given, and possibly fertile ground for blooding our undoubted young talent. But reversing our recent European performances may require some real investment in quality players.

    View Comment
  40. BroguesRoguesAndILikeThePogues


    May i suggest that anyone who cares about justice in scottish football emails
    info at thebureauinvestigates dot com
    and outline the story of what has been going on in Govanshire over the last 25 years and explain that the reason for contacting them is due to the ineptitude of our own press and the fact they suffer from Chronic Cranio-Rectal Insertion Syndrome.
    i have.

    View Comment
  41. Ozyhibby


    A lot of talk about fairness in regards to revenue sharing. The fact is that without an away team there will be no game. Therefore the away team are entitled to demand payment for turning up and providing the entertainment for the paying public.
    The SPL is a cartel which has the sole aim of getting as much cash as possible from it’s customers. How it is distributed is a gentlemans agreement between it’s members. If the clubs vote that all gates are to be shared equally between home and away clubs then it does not matter if some think it unfair or not.
    Fact is that the eleven clubs would be mad not to make revenue redistribution a priority this season.
    The current system is not working and has now reduced the SPL to a one horse race.
    My own preference would be for:-

    Gate money being shared between home and away team after the first 15,000 fans. (this allows home team to cover costs)

    European prize and TV money to be shared equally among the clubs of the SPL.

    TV money split equally among all the teams in the SPL.

    A salary cap set at £6m per season with an allowance outside the cap for a club to keep a player brought through their own academy.

    All of the above are perfectly legal and exist in other leagues in Europe at the moment. There is nothing to stop the SPL adopting them right now.
    This would help to bring back a level of sporting parity to the league.

    It would not be all bad news for Celtic.
    They would still have the largest budget by a mile. They would still be able to hire the best coaches money can buy. They would be able to direct more money towards their already excellent academy programme.

    This year Barcelona are anticipating being able to start both la liga and champs league games with teams entirely from their own academy. Ajax already do. Both team have better quality players than Celtic are trying to buy. There is nothing to stop Celtic doing the same.

    It’s time for Scottish football changed as we are failing in just about every aspect of our game just now.

    View Comment
  42. Celtic67


    Timalloy says:
    August 9, 2012 at 19:24
    2 0 i Rate This

    Can I ask one of our statiticians on here to help with the coefficient this year of both Celtic and Scotland.
    ——————————————-
    Check this link.

    http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/

    View Comment
  43. Cassandra


    Charlie Brown
    Can you please point out a surprise winner in the EPL since its creation?

    View Comment
  44. broganrogantrevinoandhogan


    Good Evening,

    can I throw my tuppenceworth in about Geographical location and the supporting of football teams.

    First of all, if we go beyond the shores of Scotland you find patterns that are not too far away from what we experience here. For example, in Italy you will find supporters of Juventus in all sorts of Geographical locations. Many choose to support the old lady without having any connection whatsoever to Turin and the surrounding area. Perhaps this comes with success– perhaps it is the alleged romance of the club.

    Similarly, throughout Europe — indeed the world– we find supporters of both Manchester United and Barcelona– who are neither English or Spanish let alone from either of those two cities.

    To an extent, success breeds fans irrespective of Geographical location and connection.

    Equally, there is the family connection to a certain club. A father or mother who was raised in Leith who then moves to Dumfries, may then raise a family of Doonhamer Hibbees.

    However, in my own wee pocket of Stirlingshire, there is a fair smattering of Dons fans– all of a certain age— who followed Aberdeen because they disliked the Gers when they were younger and didn’t fancy Celtic too much either. As Aberdeen were up there at the time, they followed the Dons—- and still do.

    At one point, Bobby Robson’s Ipswich town provided more shirts for Glasgow kids to play in on a Saturday morning or afternoon than Rangers and Celtic combined. In this way they recruited Messrs Brazil, Burley and others and gained a following.

    This is not the place really for me to explain why I am a Celtic fan, but in essence it is more than just for football reasons. Lest some get the wrong idea about that statement– I have long viewed Celtic as a club that playes football as opposed to a Football club. There is a charitable element to Celtic that features large in my mindset– and equally there is a very large social element as well.

    That did not stop me from going to Firhill on a regular basis– again partly for social reasons– and even to Holm Park Yoker where I knew lots of folk as well.

    And there is my point.

    Do the clubs in Scotland do enough to make the fans feel part of “The Club” as opposed to just fee paying supporters. On big occasions like a cup final, all sorts of fans appear en masse at Hampden and take in the vibe– only for them to disappear like snow of a dyke when the game is over.

    I recall the late Bob Crampsey famously mocking in one of his later commentaries ” and there are all the Aberdeen fans, masquerading as rows and rows of empty seats!”. Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire has a population which should be able to really wield a big support for their club— and part of me wants to say that support of the club is different to support of the team.

    I don’t pretend to have the answers to this problem– but I wonder if the clubs do enough away from the football field— by getting out into the schools, the community and the neighbourhood both in the footballing sense and the non footballing sense. Do they do enough to attract women– mothers, daughters, girlftiends, wives. We still have poor toilet facilities at many grounds– especially for women. The matchday experience has to be extended beyond the 90 minutes, kids have to be made to feel part of the “club” from a very early age… and above all else….. It is dead easy to forget that football– in all its aspects.. the playing, the supporting and the experiencing…… is meant to FUN!!!

    View Comment
  45. CrazyHorse

    CrazyHorse


    IniquitousIV at 16:59

    I have always been in the glass half full camp.

    Throughout the world the Establishment, at various levels and in its many guises, is challenged on a daily basis. Fortunately the Forces for Good can and do triumph. We may be wearied but reinforcements are on the way. I believe that the HMRC appointed liquidators BDO and the FTTT will act without fear or favour. Once they report the game changes. Tax avoidance is a real political hot potato at the moment and that a football club should operate a scam at these levels is a public scandal. The story will then come off the sports pages and move into the mainstream. Traynor & Co will be redundant (literally). Murray and his adherents will be exposed, named and shamed on the front pages.

    Until then enjoy the Sevco sideshow and keep on ‘bayoneting the wounded’.

    View Comment
  46. Chris


    Hey there’s another Chris on here?

    The Chris supporting gate sharing is not the real slim shady…who thinks we need a generation to rebuild Scottish football and wants the SPL tv money split more evenly. Or who tore apart Mozza’s daft defence of Rangers’ EBT system. That would be me

    I’m the real slim shady dagnabbit 😀

    View Comment
  47. bad capt madman


    Frank Forest,

    I emailed as you suggested

    Text copied below

    The Scottish media have been complicit along with the SFA in supporting a newco to take over the assets and sporting history of Rangers FC, and by breaking their own rules to allow them to continue in the leagues.

    Rangers FC are in adminstration, awaiting liquidation, and sold assets at very low value leaving unsecured creditors losing millions. HMRC are currently investigating illegal schemes used by RFC to avoid millions in tax.

    Despite all this, and the implication that for more than a decade RFC have been playing ineligible players in domestic and European matches, football authorities have broken all their rules to allow a new company into the leagues under a pretence that the old company transferred its licences and membership to the newco.

    None of the main stream media in Scotland have reported on this with any objectivity, leaving Alex thompson of channel 4 to be a lone voice. A blog which has over over a year been challenging the media and the SFA recently won the Orwell Prize.

    HMRC’s tribunal on an appeal by RFC is expected within weeks or months, so any news agency interested in getting ahead of the rest of a supine media on this story might be in a very advantageous position.

    View Comment
  48. nowoldandgrumpy


    Silence is golden but my eyes still see.

    Have any of our learned posters who have e-mailed the SFA, UEFA or Platini, ever received a reply to the questions asked or statements made?

    UEFA and Platini, when asked to intervene, did they say point to Scotland on the map?

    I agree with posters who are saying that we need to get the information on this blog out to a wider audience. My difficulty is in how we manage this. UEFA and Platini seem not to be bothered about what is going on, the MSM have their own agenda to follow and the SFA will hide behind confidentiality and will never admit to breaking the rules.

    Don’t you just love it when a plan comes together?

    Green, Regan and Doncaster have played this to a clearly defined plan.
    Regan and Doncaster have delayed decisions, changed rules, created new rules and ignored rules completely. It took two weeks of negotiations for the SFA to accept Greens terms for membership. Green took the SFA to the wire with the SFA granting membership in a state of panic, so much so they further disgraced themselves by making the announcement during the Olympic Games opening ceremony, in an attempt to hide it.

    Does two wrongs make a right?

    The EBT’s decision and dual contracts investigation will show that for a good number of years RFC(IA) have cheated in all the football competitions that they have taken part in, both at home and in Europe. This was through players who were improperly registered and therefore should not have played in any of these matches. Scottish clubs have lost the opportunity to participate in European competitions for a good number of years. How they did this is by signing players that they could not afford by any means other than through cheating the tax payer to pay these players high wage demands.
    So how does the SFA deal with this football club who illegally played players for years, who owe millions to other football clubs by deliberately not paying for those players, who have gone into administration in the main as a result of avoiding paying Tax and NI, but have also left many other small businesses unpaid and struggle to cope.
    What they do is to break numerous of their own and UEFA rules to allow them to continue playing in Scottish Football. They invent new things like Conditional SFA membership. They ignore the rights of the smaller clubs to have the chance of entering into the SFL. They lie about Armageddon if TRFC are not in Scottish Football. They break the rules to maintain a team who broke the rules and like the magic circle, will not tell us how they pulled off the trick.

    When is a condition not a condition?

    The SFA under Regan, have placed conditions on SFA membership some of which appear to have no time limit to be complied with. The condition of accepting the consequences of the dual contracts, only appears to be valid up to the granting of SFA membership.

    Why was no time limit placed on paying their various football debts, because they had insufficient money at that time perhaps, I doubt we will ever know.

    Why have the SFA not stated what will happen if TRFC continue to fail to meet all of the conditions of membership?

    Is it best when you say nothing at all?

    Why is Regan non committal on whether the SFA consider TRFC to be a continuation of RFC(IA) or a completely new club. Is it because he does not have an answer to either and would have to justify how either option could have been granted membership?

    A leader leads and a follower follows.

    As DJ mentioned previously, this was not solely a decision by Regan, however it is the SFA who are supposed to be the protectors of our game. They are supposed to be the organisation that ensures the rules are followed. They are supposed to be the organisation that looks after all Scottish football clubs and ensure that without fear or favour the rules will be followed.

    Sorry for the long rant.

    View Comment
  49. jammy dodger


    thewestlight says:
    August 9, 2012 at 21:27

    I would advocate a football tax on all earnings to sustain our clubs through these terrible times. A 1% deduction an all earnings would be a small price to bear considering the alternative Armageddon which awaits.
    All clubs could be loaned money at interest from the taxation revenue which would be repaid without any penalty for defaulting. This may sound drastic but drastic times call for drastic measures.
    ====
    How about just paying less to the players and that endless queue of coaches, scouts, managers, physios, agents, trainers, etc? Seems simpler to me. If income falls, cut costs.

    Believe me, the quality of the football won’t suffer. In fact it could hardly get worse, despite all the money being thrown at it. It certainly won’t be Armageddon.

    When top players got about double a miner’s or welder’s wage, we had some of the best players in the world. Now we apparently pay total donkeys 5k a week, and haven’t produced a world class player in 30 years. Time for a real change, I feel. Not a subsidy.

    View Comment
  50. Timalloy


    IniquitousIV and Celtic 67 many thanks for the links, the CQN article makes grim reading for all Scottish clubs, as our coefficient is dwindling fast. It will take a massive effort by Celtic in particular if always in pot 4 of Champions League to gain enough points, but plus side if we at least qualify for group stages for next 3 years or so the coefficient will go up and monies come into the club to attract better players. I also hope other Scottish teams can do their bit and get some much needed coefficient points also.

    View Comment
  51. goosy


    jonny says:

    August 9, 2012 at 20:13

    I have just listened to SSB…………………

    ……………
    jonny
    with respect
    I never read further than the above as I knew it would iiritate me

    View Comment
  52. The Mighty Don


    Brogan, I enjoy reading your pieces and your last comments have touched a nerve. I love Calcio and the reason for Juventus having such a strong fan base across Italy is not only for the reasons you mention, but becuase many Italians went to work for Fiat and Juve started out as a football team for the Fiat workers. Fiat employed workers from all over Italy and they took their love of Juve back to their own towns and cities. As my name suggests I’m a Dons fan, but I’ve lived in the West of Scotland all my life. Again, your reasons for supporting the Dons are spot on: sick of Rangers and everything they stand for, and success breeds support. I grew up with the Fergie era and grew to love the club even though I have no connection with the town. As you say, there are many like me around.

    View Comment
  53. Carl31


    There are a number of the learned on here who probably have an answer to a question that just occurred to me today…
    Between the SPL investigation, the Liquidators chasing for money back from EBTs and the FTT, which one might be best waiting til last – in that the documents that the others turn up or flush out could be useful/partly prove your case?

    View Comment
  54. jammy dodger


    thewestlight says:
    August 9, 2012 at 22:17

    You really don’t understand what is coming. Global capitalism is on its knees. There won’t be any costs to cut as everyone will be bankrupt. This is not a piddling little depression like 1929.
    ====
    I can go along with you on much of that. But clubs will only be bankrupt if they don’t cut costs and balance the books (RFC anyone?). And what do you think the talented players will do? Play football at say £500 a week, or work in Tescos for £250? I’m guessing they’ll all still be playing, so the quality of the football won’t be affected.

    View Comment
  55. Billy Liar


    parttimearab says:

    August 9, 2012 at 20:52
    =====================================

    If attendances like this can continue, then reconstruction might not seem like such a grand scheme after all to the SPL chairmen.

    Could each club’s season ticket tally be the nails that seal the lid of Rosemary’s Baby’s coffin?

    View Comment
  56. timtim


    Uefa wont act until the SFA act,the SFA wont act until the FTT delivers its verdict
    The FTT verdict will be the dotting of the i’s and crossing of the t’s
    The FTT judges are the ones who drive the final nail into the coffin and force open the eyes of
    Blazer and Blazers to act . The revelations about Craig Whytes stewardship were exposed under the legal umbrella and he became zero from hero in the eyes of the most misguided and duped fan,even the LL couldnt back him any more. He was simply indefensible .

    The same fate awaits the cabal who operated Rfc* for a decade if they are found guilty as charged. To be able to brush off 12 months of misdeeds on one sociopathic criminal is fortunate ,having to face the reality of 10 years of corruption and cheating by a large group of their most trusted stewards of the club will not be something they can excuse so easily .
    If the missing link that ties Minty to Whyte to Green is uncovered by BDO or the police investigation then its a sticky ending they wont wriggle out of.
    Should Rfc* (2) be sponsored by Wrigleys spearmint chewing gum ?Erra macaroon bars, Erra wrigleys spearmint chewing gum ,its minty green and whyte with a sticky ending,
    me ,Im sticking to popcorn !

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  57. bad capt madman


    Oldandgrumpy,
    Good points made there, especially about the SFA being more than just Mr Regan, (just being polite, you undertand). I am continually aghast that all this seems to be of no interest to the rest of the clubs! So, here’s my ramble for tonight.

    The turning point where democracy seemed to have lost out was when the motion of no confidence at the SFL was not allowed. Up till then there was some hope that the majority of clubs had had enough of the shenanigans and wanted to stick to the rules.

    Looking back, what happened?? What was said to those clubs by those at the top table?

    I commented at the time that when a photo appeared, that the seating arrangement was not conducive to good debate or for good work to be done..no table for the rest of them, just one for those in charge, no equality, no eye contact with your colleagues. The top table ruling it all. So what was said? What threats, bribes, or other suggestions, truthful or otherwise, were used to cow the clubs into submission?

    It is still incumbent on the clubs, their fans and supporters organisations to use the democratic structures and the articles of association to stop office bearers when they act against the greater good or the rules.

    Ah, but thats what happened, hasn’t it. The greater good was deemed apparently by all, or by enough of them, to be that Sevco should be allowed in and to keep the identity of RFC. The rules weren’t apparently appropriate in this instance. The ‘in principle’ decision of that meeting was then either hijacked by the SFA negotiators, or they were carrying out their mandate.

    Again, no comment or objection by the clubs appeared following the disgraceful timing of the announcement of membership being granted. Shouldn’t there have been an emergency general meeting to consider a proposal or recommendation? Not perhaps if the negotiators has agreed a strategy and key points for negotiation with the clubs in advance.

    I wonder if the same will happen the next time son of Sevco come calling to be reinstated (if they keep spending at current rates or if BDO take a dim view of the financial transactions that created them).

    I fear the clubs had their chance at integrity. They are all tainted now.

    Ah but, if Sevco go bust…. perhaps this was predicted by some and was considered a chance that had to be taken for the financial benefit of having them in for the short term, knowing also that then they could say “we tried everything to save Sevco, but hey, its failed again now, so thank you and good night. Now where are those applications from Spartans and Cove Rangers?”

    Could it be that the wiser folk running the clubs who know all about how to run a club, rather than how to run one into the ground, have dictated this strategy to the top table? “Give em enough rope, Stuart, they’ll enjoy a brief celebration before imploding. Oh, and Stuart, no more shenanigans when the reconstruction is being discussed. Remember that motion of no confidence? Turnbull still has it if it’s needed.”

    Perhaps there is no-one in the football community that is prepared to be involved in pulling the plug on Sevco, they expect other factors to take care of that, and who could blame them. Especially if you consider the apparent disinterest from UEFA / FIFA and a msm that would be eternally hostile to those involved.

    View Comment
  58. john clarke


    Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
    August 9, 2012 at 21:20

    ‘…..The matchday experience has to be extended beyond the 90 minutes, kids have to be made to feel part of the “club” from a very early age… and above all else….. It is dead easy to forget that football– in all its aspects.. the playing, the supporting and the experiencing…… is meant to FUN!!!.’
    ——————
    Totally agree that 90 minutes of ‘entertainment’ is not a great return on your admission money or on your emotional commitment to a team.

    Last year I had perhaps the most enjoyable entire afternoon I’ve ever had at a sporting event. And that was at a brilliantly family friendly stadium in Brisbane watching, with baby grandchildren, son, daughter-in-law, and wife, an Australian rules game.

    Before the match there was heaps of entertainment for kids of all ages- including a little kind of animal farm with lambs and chickens and piglets and so on, that the little kids could pet, and face-painting, swings and such like.

    When the hugely exciting game ended ( and I swear to God that there were no obscenities yelled or even uttered anywhere in my hearing), the spectators were allowed onto the pitch in their thousands, to kick ( I was going to say ‘their own balls’, but that might have been misunderstood) the footballs they had brought with them-full size or miniature- with their kids, in a brilliantly chaotic mayhem.

    The paying fans and their kids really get their money’s worth of a long afternoon.

    Although our clubs have improved, they have a long way to go both imaginatively and in practical terms.

    Last Saturday, wife and I drove through to Celtic Park, just in time to get parked and walk along to the ground to get in 10 minutes before k.o. And we left within a few minutes of time-up.

    And that was a kind of special occasion for Celtic, flag-raising and a parade of significant (still alive!) former players in the past 125 years.

    But the ‘celebration’ was all on-stage, as it were, with nothing in the way of fan participation (other than as on-lookers and applauders).

    I’m sure more could be done to make a match-going experience a more extensive and interesting and safe and wholesome family afternoon out.

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  59. nowoldandgrumpy


    Timtim that is the problem with all of this, it may take organisations outwith football to force the hand of footballs governing bodies. The football club that is resposible for all of this will no longer be in existence. The SFA and SPL have delayed any investigation to ensure that they continue in some form. They knew that if they investigated this when they should have, RFC(IA) would be kicked out of Scottish football.

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  60. Smell the glove


    Jonny, do yourself a favour and stop listening to sh*t like ssb.

    The opinions of the numbskulls on their panels mean nothing to anyone with any sense. They don’t matter and they will matter even less if you don’t listen.

    They are frequented by and listened to by obsessives with personal agendas. No one with any brains actually gives a f*ck what anyone connected with these shows says. It’s ego driven drivel for morons.

    You won’t change anyones mind by taking part or listening to this dross.

    Pink Floyd: The generals sat and the lines on the map moved from side to side.

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  61. Smell the glove


    I’d bet there’s an as yet undiscovered tribe in the amazon jungle that’s more developed than the average sevco caveman.

    The FTTT result and the BDO investigation, will kill them off. All we need is patience. They are on their last hoorah!

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  62. john clarke


    Captain Haddock says:
    August 9, 2012 at 23:00
    ‘…I commented at the time that when a photo appeared, that the seating arrangement was not conducive to good debate or for good work to be done..no table for the rest of them, just one for those in charge, no equality, no eye contact with your colleagues. The top table ruling it all. So what was said? What threats, bribes, or other suggestions, truthful or otherwise, were used to cow the clubs into submission? …’
    —–
    Captain, sir, you’ve just reminded me of that incredible seating arrangement.
    It was a throw-back to a former age.
    Like a 1940’s school-room, with all the wee boys ( and one girl, I think) sitting meekly and in silence being lectured at and hectored by the teacher.
    There was plenty of room for a semi-circular arrangement or House of Commons style arrangement at least.

    No, that seating arrangement spoke volumes about the control-freakery of a moribund, dinosaur-like culture that rules by fear and intimidation as well as by bureaucratic double-speak.

    I was gob-smacked to see it at the time. And I’m still amazed that relatively powerful and successful businessmen/women can allow themselves to be treated with such disdain by not only their peers, but by their hired hands!

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  63. longtimelurker


    All that’s needed to save the game here is for clubs to cut the price of entry and allow kids in free. And the clubs should give away tickets free to encourage people to go to the games.

    St Johnstone have taken the lead here along with, of course, Sevco 😉

    All joking aside £15 for a game is about the right price right now IMO.

    There’s nothing difficult here, drop the price and encourage punters and the clubs will make money from catering etc.

    Things are difficult for people right now what with food prices and fuel costs, I was reading a thread on KDS in which people were discussing the price of their TV/Phone deals with the various companies such as Sky etc and one guy said he was paying £108 a month, £108 a month for the phone, fitbaw, TV &etc. My jaw dropped reading that post.

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  64. longtimelurker


    Interesting re FOI, Salmond, HMRC and Deid club FC

    http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11647767&t=8719788

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  65. TSFM


    RTC’s blog is now reblogged here for discussion.

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  66. longtimelurker


    Our own Stephen I believe.

    http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/how-are-sevco-affording-sandaza/

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  67. buckfastswallier


    Great point John Clarke. Scottish football needs to give more back for the bucks spent by punters. Think we are heading in the right direction.

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